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 Bond--or any other derringers
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revjen45
Advanced Member

2303 Posts

Posted - November 29 2018 :  11:57:35 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Chris, My thought on the HS .22 Mag would be to use it as a knuckleduster rather than throw it.

Better to perish in the struggle for freedom than live to see defeat.
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jlwilliams
Average Member

USA
250 Posts

Posted - December 09 2018 :  7:11:25 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The only way I'd buy a derringer would be if it was a real antique to be collected not carried. Two shots from a gun as big as a small auto? No thanks. They look cool and they have Old West panache. Fine. I'd keep one as a curio and occasional range toy. That's about it.

There are times when concealment trumps other concerns. If a 32 carried in the deepest hiding spot you can create where nothing short of a metal detector or a pro frisk is going to find it is what's called for, then it is what it is. Sometimes even a Glock 19 is "too big." That said, I'd take that aforementioned Seecamp over a Bond derringer any day if I needed to go smaller than compact. Truth is, I'm not an undercover secret agent type and I have my carry card so I can usually carry with no issues.

Edited by - jlwilliams on December 09 2018 7:15:51 PM
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retfed89
Advanced Member

USA
1687 Posts

Posted - December 10 2018 :  12:54:35 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
My compact carry gun has always been either a J frame S&W or a G26. Plus at least one reload. What you wear and what you carry it in can worked out. J Frame in a back pocket, muzzle up in between handkerchiefs, draw by hooking index finger in trigger guard and pulling up and forward so that grips catch on edge of pocket and gun rolls into your hand. Can be fairly fast with practice. Wouldnít do it with a Glock or some other pistols. In the past surprised a few people. Also used a PPK that way. Put it in a folded newspaper, a brown paper lunch bag that was done in Boston Federal District Court, back in the late 60ís, little Security then. As Evan says dress around the gun. Though my wifes G42 is nice compact one, prefer a G43 myself. It can be done without going to a derringer. Retfed
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jle3030
Advanced Member

USA
5366 Posts

Posted - December 10 2018 :  08:24:26 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'll admit to owning a Davis .32 derringer. Somebody gifted me a .25 Raven semiauto for Christmas. They sold for about $65 at the time, IIRC. I already had a 100% running Beretta 950 in .25 and had moved past that caliber anyway. I had no use for the Raven. So I traded even up or thereabouts for the little 2shot .32ACP.

In a way it was a good trade. It's an occasional fun little toy that helps ward off the urge to buy any better quality derringers. Periodic trips to the range reinforce the futility of betting one's life on two difficult divergent shots, neither one of which hits particularly near point of aim.

The two grandsons found the little popper during a supervised exploration of my gun safe. Intrigued, they had to try it, so we set up a snake target at about 10 feet. A few shots each and they lost interest in tiny derringers, preferring guns they can actually hit with. They don't ask to shoot the NAA mini .22 any more either, for the same reason. But at least you can get shot loads for the tiny NAA.

Jeff

jle3030

Edited by - jle3030 on December 10 2018 08:56:47 AM
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LittleBill
Advanced Member

5336 Posts

Posted - December 10 2018 :  09:15:42 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
According to Sheriff Jim Wilson, .22 LR shot loads are useless against snakes, and .22 WMR is marginal. He recommends .38 Special +P and up.


"Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at its testing point"--- C.S. Lewis

"There are some ideas so foolish, that only an intellectual could believe them"--- George Orwell

Slow Is Smooth, Smooth Is Fast

Edited by - LittleBill on December 10 2018 09:16:11 AM
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Chris Christian
Advanced Member

USA
3438 Posts

Posted - December 10 2018 :  09:36:45 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I have to agree. I've shot a lot of snakes in FL, and .22LR & .22 Mag are poor. I don't know what is meant by +P shot loads, but the standard .38 Spl Speer shot shells work very well from a snubby to about 10-12 feet. The .44 shot shells will shred 'em at 20 feet.

I've also found that trying for the head is not the best tactic. Some snake skulls can deflect the small shot. Behind the head, or even center body, puts 'em 'toes up' quickly.

Chris Christian
There are those who make things happen. There are those who watch things happen. There are those who wonder What The Heck happened! Pick one.
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gw
Advanced Member

4512 Posts

Posted - December 10 2018 :  09:49:15 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
the last rattlesnake I shot, I used a .357 with a 125gr hollow point

I missed the head by about 3/4 inch, but the sand and gravel kicked up took off most of the head

A .44 should work even better

when Buffalo Bill had his Wild West show, his cowboys would shoot glass balls in the air with ball ammo

one night they threw a round over the wall and broke some windows

the went to smooth bore rifles and handguns using shot loads for safety

but they had to score the walls of the glass balls, the .44 shot loads couldn't break one otherwise....

"Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not..."
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LittleBill
Advanced Member

5336 Posts

Posted - December 10 2018 :  09:51:50 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I wonder how many people carry those .22 LR shot loads, thinking they're good snake medicine? I know I did.... until I learned better.


"Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at its testing point"--- C.S. Lewis

"There are some ideas so foolish, that only an intellectual could believe them"--- George Orwell

Slow Is Smooth, Smooth Is Fast
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gauchobill
Advanced Member

1104 Posts

Posted - December 10 2018 :  10:09:23 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Last one I killed was in my garage in south Florida. One shot to the head with a load of .38 special rat shot did him in. I wanted to use something larger but didn't want to leave scars on my garage.
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J Wagner
Junior Member

206 Posts

Posted - December 13 2018 :  10:26:44 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by LittleBill

According to Sheriff Jim Wilson, .22 LR shot loads are useless against snakes, and .22 WMR is marginal. He recommends .38 Special +P and up.


Decades ago, I killed a couple copperheads in my parents' wood shed, using .22 LR shotshells in a revolver, from less than 10 feet. Instant death. Snakes immediately went limp when hit.

The snakes were partially covered by wood, where a hoe or stick wouldn't reach them.
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LittleBill
Advanced Member

5336 Posts

Posted - December 13 2018 :  11:57:21 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Good to know.

I donít have any experience in the matter, or any axe to grind either way, I was just passing on what Iíd read, from an apparently credible source.

Googling ĎNRA Shooting Illustrated, Guide to using snake shotí will get you there.

I took Wilson to be saying that in his experience, .22 LR shot had proved to be marginal on snakes. Your experience shows that it sometimes does work.

Have we had a snake stopping power thread yet?


"Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at its testing point"--- C.S. Lewis

"There are some ideas so foolish, that only an intellectual could believe them"--- George Orwell

Slow Is Smooth, Smooth Is Fast

Edited by - LittleBill on December 13 2018 12:03:48 PM
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Bill D
Advanced Member

USA
1204 Posts

Posted - December 13 2018 :  1:33:43 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hey guys the "snake stopping power" info a is well of information. Pun intended, you fellows have answered a lot of questions about range and calibers that are effective on the round critters. A big thank you. Bill D

Bill D
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heavyweight
Senior Member

USA
833 Posts

Posted - December 13 2018 :  3:14:29 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
With today's plastic micros out there, I don't know what advantage a 2 shot single action derringer would have over a 7 round Kel-Tec or Ruger .380. Just my opinion.
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LittleBill
Advanced Member

5336 Posts

Posted - December 13 2018 :  9:31:13 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Bill D

Hey guys the "snake stopping power" info a is well of information. Pun intended, you fellows have answered a lot of questions about range and calibers that are effective on the round critters. A big thank you. Bill D


This site certainly is a treasure house of information!

Adding up the cumulative years of real-life experience represented here.... the number of rounds shot, the number of game animals taken, the number of felons brought down.... itís a rare occasion that I log on here, and donít learn something new.

This truly is a one-of-a-kind place; both in the wealth of information conveyed, and the quality of the folks who hang out here: Men of vast experience, humble and gracious enough to share it with know-nothings like yours truly...


"Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at its testing point"--- C.S. Lewis

"There are some ideas so foolish, that only an intellectual could believe them"--- George Orwell

Slow Is Smooth, Smooth Is Fast

Edited by - LittleBill on December 13 2018 9:32:36 PM
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jle3030
Advanced Member

USA
5366 Posts

Posted - December 14 2018 :  04:58:30 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Is there any rule that the snake load has to be a one shot stop? Aside from the fact that most autoloaders won't cycle them? That would seem to be a quick fix for the too few pellets on target complaint.

Another question: How bad is the back splatter of shot when the snake is in a rocky environment?

Jeff

jle3030
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RLS
Senior Member

USA
738 Posts

Posted - December 14 2018 :  10:58:34 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I shot a mouse in a stone fireplace one night with a .357 Mag shotshell with no back splatter. My room mate slept through the event. Generally when I mention shooting the mouse I omit the shotshell aspect.


Rick
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jle3030
Advanced Member

USA
5366 Posts

Posted - December 14 2018 :  3:09:58 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by RLS

I shot a mouse in a stone fireplace one night with a .357 Mag shotshell with no back splatter. My room mate slept through the event. Generally when I mention shooting the mouse I omit the shotshell aspect.


Rick

So you told your roommate you shot the mouse with a .357 Mag? Love it!

Jeff

jle3030
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gw
Advanced Member

4512 Posts

Posted - December 15 2018 :  10:01:19 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by heavyweight

With today's plastic micros out there, I don't know what advantage a 2 shot single action derringer would have over a 7 round Kel-Tec or Ruger .380. Just my opinion.



that's a good opinion I'm thinking

most collectors credit John Browning's little 1908 vest pocket .25 and Baby Browning .25 with taking over the derringer market at the turn of the century.

Colt produced more than 471,000 of the little pocket guns. apparently folks liked stuffing the .25 in a pocket

Browning designed the .25 acp to equal a .22 rimfire, the smallest round he could make that still used a small pistol primer, the 50 grain bullet in .25 caliper has the same sectional density as a 40 grain .22

the vest pocket guns are fun to collect, I find all the variety in pocket holsters for them interesting.

what's old is new again

I think the current crop of micro locked breach .380s an improvement on the vest pocket hide out gun too......

"Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not..."
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jlwilliams
Average Member

USA
250 Posts

Posted - December 25 2018 :  08:53:32 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I read a story (back before the interwebs, so it might be true) of Browning designing the little 25. Supposedly he was walking in town when some little yapper of a dog came and did what they do. It didn't really "attack" him but it did that snarling snapping at his heel act. The thought crossed his mind that it would feel pretty grand to plug the little rat. "My, wouldn't it be nice to have something in this vest pocket...." and the idea grew from there. Turns out, lots of people wanted a little something violent in their pocket. Still do.

They ain't much in a fight, but tiny little guns are probably the best selling blasters.
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WR Moore
Senior Member

USA
942 Posts

Posted - December 25 2018 :  11:31:30 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Decades ago, I bought a High Standard derringer in .22 Magnum. With the grip panels off, it disappeared-visually-in a pocket and was my last resort backup piece for quite awhile. Fewer decades ago, with CCI shot loads it became my preferred snake/rat gun. I had some really disappointing results with the Speer shot loads out of a model 60. For whatever reason, the .22 Magnum derringer works much better.

The larger derringers never made much sense to me either.


Beware the politically obsessed. They are often bright and interesting, but they have something missing in their natures, there is a hole, an empty place and they use politics to fill it up. It leaves them somehow misshapen. Peggy Noonan


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rev.
Senior Member

991 Posts

Posted - December 25 2018 :  11:38:03 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Wow! So the mighty .357 mag. has truly entered the ranks of
"mouse gun"!!
Merry Christmas.
rev.
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