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Uncle Mike
Advanced Member

USA
1672 Posts

Posted - July 24 2018 :  11:57:02 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Jim Higginbotham

quote:
Originally posted by LittleBill



So.... seeing what you’ve seen, and knowing what you know... if you were looking to buy a 1911 today— old/used or new— which one(s) would be on your list?

Any particular year/make/model that would be your #1 choice?






Hi, N0.1 COLT

No.2 Colt

No.3 Colt

No.4 SIG

Hi, I don't see any difference between model 70 or 80 I think this is hyperbole. This gives the gun writers something to write about. Col. Cooper talked about dropping the 1911 on it's hammer and the bullet hitting the shooter under the chin. This may or may not have happened to Melvin Purvis. When I sold guns Kimber was a hard company to deal with. They routinely shipped pistols with cosmetic defects. What's the most popular 1911? probably Kimber. I include SIG as the few I've seen had triggers "like a breaking glass rod". I have never used the other brands except for Springfield. My current favorite Colt's are a pair of XSE's in Govt. and Cmdr. YMMV, as all experience are not equal or shared, regards, Mike

"The secret of happiness is freedom, and the secret of freedom, courage"...Thucyides

"War is sweet to those who do not know it."...Erasmus
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LittleBill
Advanced Member

5024 Posts

Posted - July 24 2018 :  12:49:54 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks, Mike!


"Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at its testing point"--- C.S. Lewis

"There are some ideas so foolish, that only an intellectual could believe them"--- George Orwell

Slow Is Smooth, Smooth Is Fast

Edited by - LittleBill on July 24 2018 12:51:37 PM
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LittleBill
Advanced Member

5024 Posts

Posted - July 24 2018 :  12:51:00 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Jim Higginbotham

quote:
Originally posted by LittleBill



So.... seeing what you’ve seen, and knowing what you know... if you were looking to buy a 1911 today— old/used or new— which one(s) would be on your list?

Any particular year/make/model that would be your #1 choice?






I guess I could most honestly answer that by looking at the ones I own. In some semblance of order or preference they would be:

A Colt made from around 1946 to 1969

Any World War I 1911 in good shape (Remington UMC, Springfield Armory, Colt)*

Any 1911a1 Colt or Contract Maker*

A Series 70 Colt

Springfield Armory standard models (but there was a period of "square" front straps and dust covers I'd avoid)

Dan Wesson USA

"Series 1" Kimber Custom Classic (they really aren't labeled that but have no FP block) - not any of the high $$ ones like Match or Gold etc. (I own 7 of these but only shoot about 4 - I have collectively over 80,000 rounds through them with very few stoppages and no broken parts - though I've seen some break in classes - they also have MIM action parts).

Ruger SR 1911 (these seem to work but they have some MIM parts in the action I worry about).

S&W E series

Sig 1911 seem OK but the square slide causes holster issues (as in there are not as many available).

*If you plan on shooting much more than 100,000 rounds I'd pick something harder than the old ones but they still last and last (I've seen them go a documented 400,000 but some parts were changed).

While I cannot bring myself to recommend cheap guns, I've had a lot of RIAs in classes - they historically have worked better than the modern plastic pistols and I have not seen any break (though they should at the price).

I have not been able to ring out the CZ (not USA) or the Tsias but folks I trust seem to think highly of them. No idea on the High Standard and new Ithica but I've looked them over and they seem put together correctly.

I may have overlooked a few, handling lots of traffic this morning for some reason.

Jim

[/quote]

Thanks, Jim!


"Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at its testing point"--- C.S. Lewis

"There are some ideas so foolish, that only an intellectual could believe them"--- George Orwell

Slow Is Smooth, Smooth Is Fast

Edited by - LittleBill on July 24 2018 12:54:27 PM
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Jim Higginbotham
Moderator

USA
9635 Posts

Posted - July 27 2018 :  08:51:18 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
RE the Series 70 vs 80 I'm not as down on series 80 guns as some, but I do think adding complication to John Moses Browning's masterpiece (not just my opinion, but his) I think is unnecessary.

I simply prefer older guns because they are made better (that said there were a few years in the 70s that both Colt and S&W lacked in quality control).

I will say, I've received a few series 80 guns, and more than one of the modern S&W standard guns (with a "Schwartz" type FP safety) that would not fire reliably. Some do not know but Colt has 4 different "sizes" of F.P. block - they pick the right one at the factory but if one does a trigger job or the trigger "wears in" that might not still be the right one after that.

I have a couple of those blocks I took out of customers guns that show "dings" where the firing pin hit the block - it is a very closely timed thing.

On the S&Ws the grip safety was depressed enough to let the hammer fall but not to raise the block enough to pass the firing pin.

Those are not all that common but it does mean to test your gun!

I test them every time I clean them with a #2 pencil - if the pencil will not "shoot" clear of the barrel at least a foot there might be an ignition problem. Yes I know that a modern striker fired gun will not do that - and I've seen ignition problems with them (also not common but they happen).

The "problem" that caused the introduction of the Colt FP block was that in a govt. test a stock 1911 would go off if you managed to drop it from a 12 ft. height and it landed on its muzzle. The inertial firing pin would "bounce" and set off a primer (it would not from 6 feet).

The fix of other companies has been to lighten the firing pin and put a strong spring in it and then it passes the test - and it does not lack positive ignition, as do many DA and striker fired designs). I do not mean to imply these designs are inadequate - it is that, as in most things, the 1911 is an "overachiever" (along with several other hammer powered SA designs).

The biggest problem with ignition systems that stop the firing pin at a fixed depth is not the gun itself but one of cartridge quality - if one gets a lot of ammo with a really hefty crimp the cartridge can go deeper into the chamber and can cause ignition problems - I've seen this with all of the major brands of ammo, but it is still rare.

Just Ramblin'

Jim

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Chris Christian
Advanced Member

USA
3252 Posts

Posted - July 27 2018 :  10:40:45 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Just a thought... but the S&W M&P comes in... wait for it... .45 ACP!
I have one. It's sweet.

No need to worry about various 1911 'situations'. Just draw and shoot.
I love K.I.S.S

Chris Christian
There are those who make things happen. There are those who watch things happen. There are those who wonder What The Heck happened! Pick one.
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gw
Advanced Member

4319 Posts

Posted - July 27 2018 :  11:16:29 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
if the S&W 1911 firing pin safety wasn't timed quiet right or the shooters grip didn't fully depress the safety (the safety lever is activated by the grip safety) the firing pin would peen the plunger and cause light strikes.

everyone of the safety plungers I've checked showed some peening.

the E-series S&W 1911 did away with the safety, I think new Colts did too.

S&W has a recall on older S&W 1911s, the firing pin saftey has caused the slide to lock back disabling the gun. Colt experimented with the exact same system before the war, they dropped the idea.

Buy 1911s without the safety or take the things out (maybe not a perfect solution)

the M&P .45 has a firing pin safety too, just like a Glock

just some of the joy in selecting a 1911.......


"Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not..."

Edited by - gw on July 27 2018 11:17:37 AM
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zeke
Average Member

271 Posts

Posted - July 28 2018 :  12:15:50 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
An empty 5 in steel 1911 still has "stopping power". An empty G19 not so much? Have several reliable 1911's, have gotten rid of several unreliable ones.
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Pat Taylor
New Member

USA
53 Posts

Posted - July 28 2018 :  7:09:08 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Dan Wesson Heritage models can be found used on Gunbroker for $900-1000, I found one used in a LGS for $700 once but that has been a few years ago , if I wanted a 1911 to use as it came from the box that is my starting point.

If you are willing to work on one the Ruger SR1911 can be had for $600 if you watch for deals. I have seen new ones sell for $550 on GB which is around $600 once you get it into your hands. Lots of like new used ones for around that price. Once you replace the parts used to keep the price point low it will be about the price of a used Heritage but it will have the parts you prefer over what comes factory on the Heritage. If I plan on changing the pistol I start looking for a Ruger 1911.

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Pat Taylor
New Member

USA
53 Posts

Posted - July 28 2018 :  7:49:43 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
...and on the original post of "why" a 1911.

I am only a sample of one but the 1911 is the easiest pistol to maintain skills with that I own. I have a few 5 inch M&Ps and if I shoot enough I am about equal with one or the other. If I do not get to shoot for a while there is a difference between the plastic and the steel with the steel producing quicker and more accurate results. Just does not take as much practice to get the same results with steel.
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