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 .357 VS .40 S&W and .38 Super
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Anibal
Starting Member

Mexico
22 Posts

Posted - October 04 2005 :  7:08:54 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Is there any really advantage of the .357 Sig caliber over the .40 S&W and the .38 Super?

Anibal
Forgive me if my English is not good enough.

GLV
Moderator

USA
8866 Posts

Posted - October 04 2005 :  7:34:07 PM  Show Profile  Send GLV an ICQ Message  Send GLV a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
IMO, no.

For the person who reloads, the Sig is at a disadvantage.

If you do a search, you will find a long thread on the .357 Sig round.

'the world is round everywhere'

'The meek will inherit the earth, but only after the last soldier has left it to them in his will'
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chief
Junior Member

USA
234 Posts

Posted - October 04 2005 :  7:52:23 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Amen to the reloading problems! I prefer the .40, simply because it is a good compromise.

Chief
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Jim Higginbotham
Moderator

USA
7935 Posts

Posted - October 05 2005 :  09:26:38 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I always thought that you could blow the .357 Sig case out straight and put a .40 caliber bullet in it to improve it

But seriously, about the only thing I could think of is that you can get Super 38 or 4" .357 ballistics out of a handgun on the 9mm frame size if that is something you are impressed with.

Years (and I do mean years) ago I looked into the .38/45. Several friends had one. It looked to me like it was more trouble than it was worth for someone who shot a good bit. For the handgun hunter who might load 100 rounds a year, it might be worth it.

But for the guy who shoots only factory the disadvantage is cost, recoil and blast.

Onward,
Jim

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Evan
Administrator

32517 Posts

Posted - October 05 2005 :  09:30:23 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
they all can be used successfully to defend yourself. The .357 SIG does seem to do better against cars than others, but I would carry what you shoot best-.38 Super doesn't have as many loads as others, but Cor Bon DPX should work well.

"The greatest thing a Father can do for his children is to love their Mother."

Harold B. Lee

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El Cid
New Member

USA
65 Posts

Posted - October 05 2005 :  09:57:27 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
On a related subject... what about 400 Corbon? I have always been intrigued by that cartridge, but haven't heard much feedback from the street.
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Evan
Administrator

32517 Posts

Posted - October 05 2005 :  09:59:35 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
never saw a shooting with it

"The greatest thing a Father can do for his children is to love their Mother."

Harold B. Lee

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bigbadwolf
Advanced Member

USA
1636 Posts

Posted - October 05 2005 :  4:29:57 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I personally never thought of the .38 Super as a defensive round until recently. I just thought it was for IPSC shooters who wanted less recoil and faster times in their "race guns".

"Better a warrior in the garden than a gardener at war"
-Japanese proverb
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GLV
Moderator

USA
8866 Posts

Posted - October 05 2005 :  5:12:19 PM  Show Profile  Send GLV an ICQ Message  Send GLV a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
I do not feel underarmed with any of the Cor Bon ammo in 38 Super/9X23, and often carry a SA in that caliber.

'the world is round everywhere'

'The meek will inherit the earth, but only after the last soldier has left it to them in his will'
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chp5
Senior Member

661 Posts

Posted - October 06 2005 :  08:58:57 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
If you you reload, the .40 better because it's not a bottleneck case like the .357 Sig. Also .40 brass is cheap. The .38 Super brass is VERY expensive - around $90 a thousand! That's why all the .38 Super Open shooters are looking for their brass after each stage.

If you don't reload, then factory 40 ammo for practice is still cheaper than .357 Sig or .38 Super.

Edited by - chp5 on October 06 2005 09:00:00 AM
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bigbadwolf
Advanced Member

USA
1636 Posts

Posted - October 07 2005 :  6:14:13 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by GLV

I do not feel underarmed with any of the Cor Bon ammo in 38 Super/9X23, and often carry a SA in that caliber.


So, .38 Super and 9X23 are the same round! Well, you learn something new every day!

"Better a warrior in the garden than a gardener at war"
-Japanese proverb
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Evan
Administrator

32517 Posts

Posted - October 07 2005 :  6:19:48 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
no, but some .38 Supers will feed and shoot 9X21 without alteration, like my EAA Witness.

"The greatest thing a Father can do for his children is to love their Mother."

Harold B. Lee

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GLV
Moderator

USA
8866 Posts

Posted - October 07 2005 :  7:32:04 PM  Show Profile  Send GLV an ICQ Message  Send GLV a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
Simple explanation is 38Super is a semi rimmed case [small rim] and the 9X23 is rimless. The 9X23 brass is heavier and supposed to support higher pressures, and may be a few thousands longer.

Normally a gun that cartridge headspaces on cartridge mouth rather than the rim, will handle both, but refer to a gunsmith or manufacturer to be sure.

'the world is round everywhere'

'The meek will inherit the earth, but only after the last soldier has left it to them in his will'
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Anibal
Starting Member

Mexico
22 Posts

Posted - October 07 2005 :  9:58:59 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I have a question:
When you said 9X23, I think you meant 9X23 Winchester, Did You?.
Because there is another 9X23: the 9mm Largo (9mm Bermann Bayard).

Anibal.

Edited by - Anibal on October 07 2005 10:01:37 PM
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GLV
Moderator

USA
8866 Posts

Posted - October 07 2005 :  10:06:51 PM  Show Profile  Send GLV an ICQ Message  Send GLV a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
Yes, 9X23 Winchester.

'the world is round everywhere'

'The meek will inherit the earth, but only after the last soldier has left it to them in his will'
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SIGP226
New Member

75 Posts

Posted - October 10 2005 :  08:27:58 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I love the 357 SIG and see it as superior to 40 and 38 Super for general duty/self defense use. First, as Evan says, it is better on cars and barriers, as it has more energy. Second, it is flatter shooting for more accuracy at longer ranges. Third, it duplicates a winner in stopping power, the 357 magnum, (in some loadings with full size guns), as Evan and Sanow's book attests. Fourth, it is bottlenecked so at least theoretically it feeds bettwe. Finally, now that Wallyworld and chains like Academy carry it, it is widely available. While reloading it is probably more of a chore than with the others, and practice ammo is more expensive, I agree with Sanow (and Evan, if he did write that part of the book) that the 357 SIG is the police cartridge of the future. I think I have secured permission from my agency to qualify and carry this round in my SIG P226 in place of 40 S&W, and am very pleased.
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Evan
Administrator

32517 Posts

Posted - October 10 2005 :  08:53:48 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
no, I carry a SIG P229 in .40 and SA XD in .45 GAP as a second gun, with a Ruger SP-101 as a 3rd

"The greatest thing a Father can do for his children is to love their Mother."

Harold B. Lee

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SIGP226
New Member

75 Posts

Posted - October 10 2005 :  9:15:10 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Evan:

Could you please tell me why one would not carry the 357 SIG over the 40 S&W if ammo availability isn't a problem? This isn't rhetorical or argumentative, just an honest question as I thought that if this cartridge can give us 357 magnum ballistics with 40 recoil and gun size, why not carry it? I recognize that the cartridges (40 and 357) are probably close, but do the advantages of the 357 over the 40 offset the disadvantages, or vice versa? Am I wrong in choosing it over the 40 and trying to convince others to switch? In your book and Sanow's book, it seems like the cartridge has a glowing endorsement and I really would like to know what you personally think, as I grow concerned that I am misinterpreting, misquoting, and potentially offending you. Thanks.
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Martindog
Junior Member

196 Posts

Posted - October 10 2005 :  9:15:32 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I don't get the reloading comments. I know guys who load the Sig using a .40 S&W carbide die followed up with a .357 steel die, problem solved. They don't bother lubing either. If they want to, they download a bit for practice, say 1250 fps w/125 grain bullet. Save wear&tear on gun. Kind of a Sig reloader's approach to cheap, softer practice ammo that still approximates duty loads closely enough. Much better than loading +P's in a 9mm for duty, but practicing with low powered stuff. But 9mm's aren't the topic here so I digressed.

.40's are good, but when you are comparing the two, assuming you'd be reloading either of them, there's no real difference between the two, at least not anything significant enough that can't be very easily overcome. If you insist on buying OTC, then .40 is cheaper though, and that factor alone should allow you to practice more.
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Terry
Moderator

USA
5481 Posts

Posted - October 10 2005 :  11:57:43 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by SIGP226

Evan:

Could you please tell me why one would not carry the 357 SIG over the 40 S&W if ammo availability isn't a problem? This isn't rhetorical or argumentative, just an honest question as I thought that if this cartridge can give us 357 magnum ballistics with 40 recoil and gun size, why not carry it?



Not Evan but I have tried the 357 SIG VS 40 S&W, in my own carry gun, the G23.

I just couldn't shoot it as well as the 40. It's a personal thing as many others have found just the opposite.

Shooting well comes first.

"Simplicity is the last step of art, and the beginning of nature" Bruce Lee
von hier an blind
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bigbadwolf
Advanced Member

USA
1636 Posts

Posted - October 11 2005 :  01:38:17 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I shot the .357 Sig very well in my friend's new duty gun, ad Springfield XD. It had quite the muzzle flash, more so, I do believe, than my .357 mag K-frame snubby, but I liked it, and the gun I was shooting. The cost of ammo in that round is the biggest prohibition for myself.

"Better a warrior in the garden than a gardener at war"
-Japanese proverb
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GLV
Moderator

USA
8866 Posts

Posted - October 11 2005 :  4:57:26 PM  Show Profile  Send GLV an ICQ Message  Send GLV a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
I too have shot the .357 Sig, and did not like the concussion effect from short barreled gun.

I mentioned reloading--and Martindog, you confirmed one of my objections.

Separate step in sizing in order avoid lubing--which may or may not work. Stuck case in steel dies are real fun. Is there a 'neck size' die available in .357 Sig?

If above works fine, two sizing operations would require a 5 station press, or a completely separate operation.

Next is the necessity of very carefully making sure there is sufficient 'bullet pull resistance' to keep from having bullet setback.

Last, very easy to load 9MM to +P for practice. I have been doing it for about 25 years.

All really a matter of personal choice. :)

'the world is round everywhere'

'The meek will inherit the earth, but only after the last soldier has left it to them in his will'
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SavannahSteve
Senior Member

USA
660 Posts

Posted - October 11 2005 :  6:03:38 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
George,

I'm going to have to send you all of that 9mm brass I've been throwing away 'cause no one wants it.

Steve
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Robert Millard
Starting Member

22 Posts

Posted - October 11 2005 :  8:31:12 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I like the .357 Sig round in a Sig 229. Iíve found that I shoot it better than I do a .40 in the same gun. One range I shoot at wonít allow reloads, so 50% of my shooting is with factory ammo
(Speer Lawman, which ain't cheap). Iím not put off by the reloading, since I enjoy it almost as much as I do shooting. I only lube about one in five cases, and have had no problems with stuck cases. Rainer bullets and Accurate No. 9, yields inexpensive highly accurate ammo.

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