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 Winchester 9mm 115 gr STHP
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MSU721
Moderator

USA
1554 Posts

Posted - August 20 2005 :  10:48:35 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
10% Ballistic Gelatin Tests for:
Winchester 9mm 115 gr STHP

Testing Platform:
Glock 19

Barrier:
Four Layers of Denim


TEST RESULTS:

Round # 1:
Penetration: 13.25
Recovered Weight: 114.0 gr.
Expansion*: .650 cal.

* Expansion measured at widest point.

JWR

Terry
Moderator

USA
5481 Posts

Posted - August 21 2005 :  01:21:40 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Is this the new or old silvertip?

"Simplicity is the last step of art, and the beginning of nature" Bruce Lee
von hier an blind
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E4E
Moderator

USA
6451 Posts

Posted - August 21 2005 :  02:37:51 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Terry,

It's the new Silvertip.

It deserves to have the old baggage left beside the road and forgotten.

It might be "Old School" with an update, but it's obviously been given some attention despite the name.

E4E


Keep the Rifle handy!
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wolfram
Average Member

USA
303 Posts

Posted - August 21 2005 :  10:42:24 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Nice. I think I might put the Silvertip back on my list:)

Carl
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Corky
Junior Member

186 Posts

Posted - August 21 2005 :  8:05:46 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
How does the labeling differ between the old and new boxes of silvertips? Thanks.
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Evan
Administrator

34824 Posts

Posted - August 21 2005 :  9:26:15 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
doesn't as far as I can tell

"The greatest thing a Father can do for his children is to love their Mother."

Harold B. Lee

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TN-popo
Starting Member

7 Posts

Posted - September 04 2005 :  9:14:09 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Can someone provide/point me in the direction of more info regarding the redesigned Silvertip (When it happened? Additional testing? In all calibers? etc.)
This is the first I'm hearing about it and the results in this thread are impressive...in fact, what I would consider ideal.
Thanks.

Edited by - TN-popo on September 04 2005 9:17:15 PM
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GLV
Moderator

USA
8866 Posts

Posted - September 04 2005 :  10:26:01 PM  Show Profile  Send GLV an ICQ Message  Send GLV a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
Do a search on 'Test Bed' for Silvertip and you will find some info. We first tested the W ST 44 Special in early 2004. I believe the .357 has also been tested.

'the world is round everywhere'

'The meek will inherit the earth, but only after the last soldier has left it to them in his will'
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wolfram
Average Member

USA
303 Posts

Posted - September 06 2005 :  1:15:42 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Evan

doesn't as far as I can tell



I've always wondered why ammo companies are shy about revealing changes in their ammo. You would think that the manufacturers would be anxious to reveal improvements in their products. I'm sure that Winchester has lost a lot of sales of its 9mm Silvertip given all the publicity with the Miami shootout and the 1989 Easter Sunday shooting in San Diego. So you would think that they would advertise the fact that the round has changed to penetrate a little deeper.

The 9mm Silvertip has obviously been improved, but, because Winchester keeps this re-engineered round a secret, we'll continue to forever hear people bash this round as an inadequate penetrator based on a shootings from the 80's and old gel results from the 90's.

Thanks for taking the time and resources to test an older round

Carl
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Evan
Administrator

34824 Posts

Posted - September 06 2005 :  1:24:19 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
GLV gets the credit-he brought some new .44 Spec ST to a gello shoot and bugged us until we shot it-it was dramatically better than the old-the orginal ST in 9MM was ok and I would have and did carry it w/o worries

"The greatest thing a Father can do for his children is to love their Mother."

Harold B. Lee

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TN-popo
Starting Member

7 Posts

Posted - September 06 2005 :  1:44:13 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks guys.
I did a search...I was just hoping to find more specific info. My email to Winchester hasn't been answered yet.

Wolfram...that's what I was thinking as well.
Best
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Evan
Administrator

34824 Posts

Posted - September 06 2005 :  2:13:19 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
nest time we shoot gello-probably Oct-we can shoot 5 or 6 more rnds in gelatin and chk for consistancy

"The greatest thing a Father can do for his children is to love their Mother."

Harold B. Lee

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Pitbull
Moderator

2011 Posts

Posted - September 08 2005 :  11:07:17 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
MSU, Thanks for test results. Interesting, 13.25 " penetration with the new version.
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bigbadwolf
Advanced Member

USA
1636 Posts

Posted - September 09 2005 :  01:28:29 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I loaded it in my BHP for years. Is thhis new round a +p round or standard velocity. I've always wondered why Winchester didn't offer +p STHP?

"Better a warrior in the garden than a gardener at war"
-Japanese proverb
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Terry
Moderator

USA
5481 Posts

Posted - September 09 2005 :  01:38:38 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
It's a regular pressure load.

The ISP 115gr +P+ load is basically the STHP tweaked and driven to high velocities.

"Simplicity is the last step of art, and the beginning of nature" Bruce Lee
von hier an blind
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bigbadwolf
Advanced Member

USA
1636 Posts

Posted - September 10 2005 :  11:22:28 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Terry

It's a regular pressure load.

The ISP 115gr +P+ load is basically the STHP tweaked and driven to high velocities.


Thanks for the info.

"Better a warrior in the garden than a gardener at war"
-Japanese proverb
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isp2605
Average Member

332 Posts

Posted - September 10 2005 :  8:11:44 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Terry

It's a regular pressure load.

The ISP 115gr +P+ load is basically the STHP tweaked and driven to high velocities.



The ISP carried the "old" ST for a very short time in 1980. There was a shootout near Joliet IL with a biker who was hit 13 times COM. None of the rds penetrated deep enough to hit the vitals. We got the call within hours to quit carrying the ST and carry whatever we could find of our old stuff until something new was issued. The new was the Fed 115 BP and later BPLE.
Then working with W-W the 115 +P+ was developed. It was a brass jacketed HP which was pushed to 1350 fps. Eventually the Ranger T became the carry load. But the old ST, and the redesigned ST, were was never called the ISP load as the ISP never carried the ST after the Joliet shootout.
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GLV
Moderator

USA
8866 Posts

Posted - September 10 2005 :  8:20:53 PM  Show Profile  Send GLV an ICQ Message  Send GLV a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
Thanks Denny. The information is much appreciated.

'the world is round everywhere'

'The meek will inherit the earth, but only after the last soldier has left it to them in his will'
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Terry
Moderator

USA
5481 Posts

Posted - September 10 2005 :  11:25:32 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks for the correction and additional information.

"Simplicity is the last step of art, and the beginning of nature" Bruce Lee
von hier an blind
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E4E
Moderator

USA
6451 Posts

Posted - September 11 2005 :  01:26:02 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
ISP,

Thanks!

For the "Rest of the story".

Dunno why Winnie hasn't dropped the silver tip name.

The latest efforts are nothing like the previous.

Keep safe!
E4E

Keep the Rifle handy!
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isp2605
Average Member

332 Posts

Posted - September 11 2005 :  08:55:12 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Don't know why W-W kept the ST name after redesign. For those of us around long enough to remember the 1980 shootout (and there are getting fewer on the job) if anyone mentioned Silvertip as duty ammo there would be a mass growl and groan dept wide. Rightly or wrongly, ST got a bad name in the 80s. You'd think from a marketing point the name would have been changed. I guess it hasn't hurt sales tho because ST is still out there. I don't think the ST was a bad rd, just a rd that wasn't suited for what we needed done.
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Evan
Administrator

34824 Posts

Posted - September 11 2005 :  10:03:07 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'm sure their marketing nazi's did some research and decided they sold well.

"The greatest thing a Father can do for his children is to love their Mother."

Harold B. Lee

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TN-popo
Starting Member

7 Posts

Posted - September 12 2005 :  4:31:37 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Well, I just received my email back from Mr. Paul Nowak (Winchester LE Division).
He states that the 9mm Silvertips (115gr and 147gr) were NOT changed/redesigned recently.
The only Silvertip handgun ammunition affected by the change is...
.45LC, .45acp, .38spec/110gr, .32acp, .380acp, and .44spec.

Hope this clears up any misinformation.
Best

Edited by - TN-popo on September 12 2005 11:16:36 PM
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wolfram
Average Member

USA
303 Posts

Posted - September 12 2005 :  5:19:33 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks for the info TN.

Carl
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walt farr
Advanced Member

2552 Posts

Posted - September 13 2005 :  12:52:53 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Of course as Bill Clinton would say it depends upon what the meaning of the word recently is. As the 9mm version has been out for a long time what time frame is recently....last year, last five years.I have an ammo test done at a local PD in April of 2001 and the 115 silvertip did 11.75 inches and .593 caliber with 100% weight retention thru 4 layers of denim. This in line with the above test and shows good performance four years ago. I should also add that in the FBI heavy clothing test the performance was nearly identical.

Edited by - walt farr on September 13 2005 1:09:34 PM
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TN-popo
Starting Member

7 Posts

Posted - September 13 2005 :  4:05:53 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Mr. Nowak didn't give me an exact date, but I believe that he meant since the last "major" generational change of the Silvertip many moons ago.

I'm sure he could provide an exact date...
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