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 Kahr PM9 v. Keltec P11 for pocket carry
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Hunting Coyotes
Junior Member

107 Posts

Posted - March 12 2005 :  10:59:02 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I value the advice of the folks on this forum and I was wondering what your thoughts are on these 2 guns. I'm thinking of both as a BUG in pocket carry mode to my Ruger P97 with occassional use as a primary. Experiences, dislikes, likes?

Pitbull
Moderator

2011 Posts

Posted - March 12 2005 :  11:44:12 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Never owned a Khar, but did have a Keltec P11 some years back. I really liked the compactness and light weight of the Keltec, but did not like the long heavy heavy trigger. Finish on mine also left a little to be desired as well. Maybe they have improved on it since.
Baby Glock .40 cal. model 27 is what I replaced it with.
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Evan
Administrator

34023 Posts

Posted - March 12 2005 :  11:56:07 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'd recommend the Kahr

"The greatest thing a Father can do for his children is to love their Mother."

Harold B. Lee

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G-Bone
Junior Member

USA
159 Posts

Posted - March 13 2005 :  01:40:03 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Can't speak about the P11, never had the pleasure of handling one. On the flip side, I do own a PM9 and truly enjoy the firearm. It is a wonderful design, often carry as BUG in front pocket of Khakis. The PM9 is very accurate, and with the right ammo, very dependable. I use Black Hills 124gr +p Gold Dots, they feed perfect!

"Scattergun... never leave home without it"
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Derek
Starting Member

25 Posts

Posted - March 13 2005 :  08:19:03 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I have owned an MK9 since they came out and even with the added weight over the PM9 it carries extremely well in the front pocket. Have shot the Kel-Tec and couldn't get used to the extremely long and heavy trigger.
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jle3030
Advanced Member

USA
4901 Posts

Posted - March 13 2005 :  08:20:51 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I've never owned a Kahr. I've shot a couple and found them to be very nice, but heavy for their size. I understand the PM9 handles that problem.

I have a KelTec and am underwhelmed. Nice and light to carry, but mine has ongoing reliability issues, despite a trip back to the factory. It's OK for coat pocket carry, but marginal for pants. The pinky rest on the mag baseplate doesn't help in getting an already snug gun out of a pants pocket. Especially when it competes with a Centennial snubby for pocket carry time.

I'm no fan of DAO triggers in autoloaders, believing that this trigger system negates one of the primary autoloader advantages. Admittedly that opinion is purely subjective. So I consider the long trigger pull of the KelTec to be borderline intolerable. My KT would be for sale right now,except it needs another repair and I haven't gotten around to paying the shipping tariff (again) for a gun I don't like much.

The best I can say for the KT is that it is a decent gun for the money when it works. But if I ever have to use the pocket gun, the situation will be truly desperate and I won't be interested in dealing with presentation, trigger control, and reliability compromises made for the sake of economics.

I'd buy the Kahr. Or a snubby revolver.

Jeff

jle3030
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Kevin
Advanced Member

USA
1680 Posts

Posted - March 13 2005 :  09:33:49 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Assuming cost isn't a factor, I'd say the Kahr is a markedly better pistol for that application. While the two pistols are very similar in size and weight, the quality of the Kahr is probably going to be much higher. I've heard lots of horror stories about quality control problems and reliability issues with Kel Tecs - not something you'd want in a pistol you're carrying to defend your life. Also, the trigger pull on the KTs is pretty awful - especially when compared to the smooth, relatively light trigger on the PM9.

With the PM9, you loose some capactity and some velocity, but get a more compact, easier to shoot pistol.

It really is a personal decision, though, I know people who've been carrying their P11s for years and swear by them. If you can, I'd try a side-by-side comparison and see which fits your hand best, and which shoots best for you...

Regards,

Kevin

"Fast is fine, accuracy is final..."
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GLV
Moderator

USA
8866 Posts

Posted - March 13 2005 :  8:54:17 PM  Show Profile  Send GLV an ICQ Message  Send GLV a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
My KT has a nickle finish, and never a problem. Reliability required one trip to factory do to blowing bottoms of cases--barrel too open at bottom. New barrel solved problem.

Trigger is long, and does require live or dry fire at least once a month.

Carried as second or third gun with DPX.


'the world is round everywhere'

'The meek will inherit the earth, but only after the last soldier has left it to them in his will'
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Nimbus
Junior Member

225 Posts

Posted - March 13 2005 :  11:13:57 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I've been very happy with my Kahr P9--great gun, great customer service, at least in my experience. The only thing to watch is that topmost rounds in the spare mag will dislodge easily unless you are vigilant. Had a KelTec--a P3AT--it was not reliable, even after the "fluff and buff" and the inside looked like an elephant had teethed on the gun.
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Hunting Coyotes
Junior Member

107 Posts

Posted - March 14 2005 :  12:04:12 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thank you for the advice and comments. The concensus strongly goes to the Kahr. After giving a friend's PM9 a thorough "ringing out" yesterday at the range, I'm convinced it is the gun I want. I have had real concerns about the reliability of the KTs given the poor appearence of their fit and finish. The PM9 is a very high quality gun from my inspection and limited shooting. The price is considerably more, but I think it is justified. I'll post a range report with chrono of various loads when I get it.
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poboxjk187
New Member

USA
53 Posts

Posted - March 24 2007 :  12:51:43 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Saw this thread and had to reply. Bought a Kahr PM9 and initially loved it. Then.. feed issues. Failure to lock up/battery. Kahr sent me a new recoil spring and it still periodically snagged. After about 700 rounds I traded for a G26. Kahr makes good stuff, but along with my experience and other postings, I think the PM9 has too many reliability issues. Now I'm a little partial to Glock, but if you want reliable carry protection, go with a revolver or a Glock. Small autos (too small) are inherently unreliable and will do nothing but get you killed if you ever need to pull the trigger.

Always knock twice.
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Biggfoot44
Advanced Member

2233 Posts

Posted - April 11 2007 :  01:37:19 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Have P11, mine works. Trigger won't be mistaken for 1911, but not THAT bad, ok for hitting somthing like Q target head area to at least 15 yds. The flat bottomed mag helps concealment in "very small" areas, but at expense of control for users with average or larger hands. I usually use S&W 12 round mags unless specific carry needs call for flat mag.
That said, I've never had good luck with front pocket carry. Thinking on it probably has to do with my XXL hands, already being a tight fit into most pockets by themselves, when wraped around a gun difficult to extract surely/quickly. Have carried P11 in leg pocket of cargo pants. Usually use guns of this type/size as very compact belt/ IWB gun. I have pretty much passed on pocket carry on larger than .32acp, but highly dependent on your hand size and cut of your pants.
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w5lx
Starting Member

USA
33 Posts

Posted - April 11 2007 :  06:46:56 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Kahr had some problems early on with barrrel peening, and some functioning problems, but those problems seem to have been fully resolved with the current run of guns. I have a PM9 that has been trouble-free and pleasant to shoot. It is very accurate for a pocket pistol and is much more concealable than my Glock 27. The Glock is great in an IWB holster, but for pocket carry, the Kahr can't be beat. I carry mine in a Don Hume Pocket holster and it is easily concealable in jeans or shorts without printing. In a recent article in Handguns Magazine, Chuck Taylor called it "The Ultimate Pocket Pistol."
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esq_stu
Senior Member

USA
905 Posts

Posted - April 11 2007 :  10:22:40 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
FWIW:

I have carried both in pocket holsters. Between the two, I chose Kahr.

My P11 was not sufficiently durable - it's ejector broke after a lot of practice. On examination, it seemed very flimsy (Kel-Tec sent me a new ejector at no charge).

My impression is that the Kahr is better able to handle +P and +P+ ammo.

The P11 is much bulkier, though 11 rounds is clearly an advantage over 7 in the Kahr.

I prefer the Kahr trigger.

Between the two, I found the Kahr more accurate.

My Kahr has functioned flawlessly after at least 1000 rounds.

I feel like the Kahr is a much higher quality weapon. But it's much more expensive than the P11 (I sold mine).

Kol Tuv (All the best!)

-- esq_stu

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tdbmd
Junior Member

USA
197 Posts

Posted - April 12 2007 :  3:25:02 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I have the PM9 and have about 250 rounds through it without any problems. I also have the P3-AT and while it is smaller, it is not as well built or accurate. Only 50 rounds through it so far.

Soli Deo Gloria
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Srigs
Advanced Member

USA
1061 Posts

Posted - April 12 2007 :  9:04:25 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by esq_stu

FWIW:

The P11 is much bulkier, though 11 rounds is clearly an advantage over 7 in the Kahr.



The new P11 mags are 12+1.

I have friends that have trouble with the PM9 and had to send them back to get it fixed.

My P11 has been very reliable and works well as an AIWB, IWB or coat pocket gun. Cargo pants work great with a P11.

Srigs
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Olddog84
Senior Member

USA
584 Posts

Posted - April 13 2007 :  09:04:52 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
From personal experience and reading forums, both of these seem to have a wide range of reliability issues. I have a KT P-11 and I have never had any problems with it. The trigger is long and heavy but I find it no harder to shoot than a J-frame revolver, with twice the capacity and better sights. I carry it fairly frequently, particularly when I travel for work. I also have a P3at that I use for pocket work. Never had a Kahr, but have shot a few and some friends have had multiple issues with them. To me, it seems like with both brands you have a 50/50 chance of getting a good example or a lemon.

"Somebody Tries to kill you, you try to kill 'em right back." Malcolm Reynolds
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a.hebert
Junior Member

122 Posts

Posted - April 20 2007 :  6:47:51 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I just rang in on another Kahr thread. I have to say my PM9 functions perfectly. I love the DPX in it.

I'd like to know if anyone has had a good experience with the Kahr CW9? Found one locally for about $350.
I'm tempted. It doesn't have the polygonal barrel like the PM9, but I'm not sure that's a big issue.
Thanks
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