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MSU721
Moderator
USA
1550 Posts |
 Posted - November 21 2003 : 02:14:00 AM
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OK here goes, as the official Covert Committee for the Desecration of all things Ballistic scrib (for today) I have attempted to gather some data for posting.
GLV and Pdog I have a few things I need you two to check on to complete the numbers, since you both made off with bullets before we realized we actually had to measure them.
Evan I could use your Chrono data if you get a chance, man this is getting to be too much like work .
Everything is setup by the test platform the bullets were fired from and then brand caliber and junk. All of these tests were conducted using the Covert Committee Approved Clothing Barrier.
S&W .357 M66 4 barrel:
Federal .357 125 gr. Hi Shok
Pen 14.00 Exp .514
Winchester .357 110 gr. Personal Defense
Pen 11.75 Exp .463
Remington .357 125 gr. Golden Saber
Pen 15.50 Exp .575
Federal .357 130 gr. Personal Defense
Pen 13.00 Exp .668
Taurus .357 Snub 2 Barrel:
Federal .357 125 gr. Hi Shok
Pen 12.00 Exp .588
Magsafe .38 52 gr. Defender
Pen 8.50 (Deepest Penetration) 8.00 (Average Penetration)
Corbon .38 110 gr. +P
Pen 16.50+ Exp N/A (left the block, not recovered)
Keltec .380 3AT ??? Barrel:
(Pdog, alittle help on barrel length?)
Corbon .380 90 gr. +P
Pen 16.50+ Exp N/A (left the block, not recovered)
Speer .380 90 gr. Gold Dot
Pen 10.50 Exp .476
Federal .380 90gr. Hydra Shok
Pen 16.50 Exp .356
FN BHP .40 5 Barrel:
Corbon .40 135 gr. Power Ball
Pen 12.00 Exp ???
GLV you got this bullet? Can you measure it for the data?
H&K USPC .40 3.62 Barrel:
Remington .40 165 gr. Golden Saber
Pen 16.00 Exp ???
Pdog, do you have this one? Measure it for me Eh?
Hornady .40 155 gr. XTP
Pen 16.50 Exp ???
Same as above
SIG P220 .45 ACP 4.4 Barrel:
Winchester .45 230 gr. Personal Defense
Pen 19.00 Exp .614
Federal .45 230 gr. +P Tactical
Pen 10.25 Exp .772
Federal .45 230 gr. +P HST
Pen 13.50 Exp .833
Colt/Springfield 1911 .45 ACP 5 Barrel:
Federal .45 165 gr. Personal Defense (EFMJ)
Pen 9.50 Exp .747
Glock 19 9mm 4.4 Barrel:
Remington 9mm 115 gr. Bonded
Pen 13.25 Exp .610
Federal 9mm 124 gr. Tactical
Pen 11.50 Exp .540
Federal 9mm 105 gr. Personal Defense (EFMJ)
Pen 10.00 Exp .576
The Federal .45 +Ps still catch our eyes, and the EFMJ is really looking good as well. This should pretty much finish our testing for this year, when the snow starts to melt well wade back out to the range and start up again.
JWR
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JWR |
Edited by - MSU721 on November 21 2003 3:56:28 PM |
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E4E
Moderator
USA
6451 Posts |
Posted - November 21 2003 : 02:52:45 AM
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Dadgum Vampires!
Told ya you would be up and hyper after a 2 hr Nap!
The HSC vs Fed Tactical has me interested and conflicted as well.
Two great loads from the same company.
Also...
Gotta make a mental note to tackle PDog before he exits early next time.
Shows up,chews up the Gelatin with is mousegun,Eats,and then jams before the calipers are broken out.
Great Job as the scribe.
You got the Job!
I get the cost and messy Kitchen/ticked off wife.
Evan brings the ammo.
Keeb brings the culinary delights(Muskrat!)
GLV brings the pinwheels
Talker provides the media support and odd caliber platforms.
(7.34 Kolibri Ackley improved...what is that?!)
PDog stirs the pot with oddball conventional ammo and obvious but overlooked questions.
YOU get to record the ORGANIZED data and be a target for being young and a graduate of Moo U.
Next year anyhoo.....
E4E
P.S.
You forgot...
16" FAL
.308 Federal TRU.
Exp.? Heavily fragmented.
Penetration. Bullet core exited 14" block and joined heavy fragments in second block.
Collateral damage.
8" dia hole in Gello table from hydraulic effect.
The more I learn about handgun ammo,the more I LOVE my rifles.
:) :) :)
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Keep the Rifle handy! |
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Rob96
Average Member
459 Posts |
Posted - November 21 2003 : 03:50:45 AM
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| Was the Winchester 110gr JHP fired from the snub? How about te penetration and expansion on the Win. 230gr JHP? |
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Keeb
Moderator
USA
1312 Posts |
Posted - November 21 2003 : 06:08:53 AM
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Rob,
I cant remember the exact numbers for the Win White Box 230 gr. jhp, but I do remember Evan saying that it chronoed at about the same speed as the White Box 230fmj. I remember pulling the jhp out of the Jello and expansion was quite impressive and uniform. Jon or Evan has the projo and should have the results somewhere in the pile. (SCRIBE BOY UP!!!!!!!) 
Keeb |
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GLV
Moderator
USA
8190 Posts |
Posted - November 21 2003 : 06:26:17 AM
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| Keeb, if I remember correctly, the Winchester white box 230JHP ran about 815fps from Evans 220. Evan has the 40PB I think--believe he put it in his pocket. |
'the world is round everywhere'
'The meek will inherit the earth, but only after the last soldier has left it to them in his will' |
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Evan
Administrator
27524 Posts |
Posted - November 21 2003 : 07:52:05 AM
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We sat around the table and measured and MSU 721 was supposed to write it down- the Win 230gr jhp PD load expanded well and was almost dead even velocity wise with Win 100 rnd value pack from Wally World. If I wanted to the carry the 230gr PD load, once I determined my pistol would feed it out of all my mags, I would simply practice with the value pack ammo.
The 110gr did not get shot out of the 2" because of other priorities.
PowRball and HST continue to impress us greatly-my new P220 likes both loads alot. |
"The greatest thing a Father can do for his children is to love their Mother."
Harold B. Lee
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jhiller
Moderator
USA
3224 Posts |
Posted - November 21 2003 : 08:07:29 AM
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| What happened to the new Speer GD NYPD 38 cal snubby load ? |
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buck
Senior Member
569 Posts |
Posted - November 21 2003 : 08:21:23 AM
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| What is the Covert Committee Approved Clothing Barrier? |
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CO
Advanced Member
USA
3741 Posts |
Posted - November 21 2003 : 10:43:30 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by buck
What is the Covert Committee Approved Clothing Barrier?
Whatever is on the 25 cent rack at Goodwill? |
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GLV
Moderator
USA
8190 Posts |
Posted - November 21 2003 : 10:55:50 AM
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| Insulated Carhart if I remember correctly. |
'the world is round everywhere'
'The meek will inherit the earth, but only after the last soldier has left it to them in his will' |
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Evan
Administrator
27524 Posts |
Posted - November 21 2003 : 11:03:31 AM
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| Jim-it did not show up |
"The greatest thing a Father can do for his children is to love their Mother."
Harold B. Lee
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Evan
Administrator
27524 Posts |
Posted - November 21 2003 : 11:49:26 AM
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| we cut up some very expensive stuff to make a street relevant barrier-I wish such items were available at Good Will |
"The greatest thing a Father can do for his children is to love their Mother."
Harold B. Lee
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MSU721
Moderator
USA
1550 Posts |
Posted - November 21 2003 : 4:11:38 PM
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Sorry about the Win Per Defense data... That's what happens when I post after being awake for 30+ hours, just edited that post should be there now.
E4E, I did not get a nap, it just took me that long to figure it all out  .
GLV, sorry I thought maybe you snagged that one for youself but now I am at a lose for the powerball .40 I did not get any expansion data for that, Who got the bullet? Maybe we'll jsut have to shoot it again .
.308 TRU did prove very interesting, and reinfocred the golden rules; 1)take a rifle, and 2)take all your friends with rifles. I think I heard that from some one around here .
JWR
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JWR |
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Keeb
Moderator
USA
1312 Posts |
Posted - November 21 2003 : 9:50:38 PM
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buck,
The test medium was supposed to be a layer of Carhart, a sweat shirt and long underwear, but the long undies disappeared. So we just used the Carhart and sweatshirt.
Keeb |
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PDogSniper
Senior Member
655 Posts |
Posted - November 21 2003 : 10:32:01 PM
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MSU, move these numbers to their rightful place ok...?
The .40 Golden Sabre expanded pretty impressively at .658. The round looked like a chrysanthemum (sp?) with the petals folded back like an octopus's tenicles following behind... Extreme uniformity.
While the Hornady didn't expand quite so far at .560. It was uniform in expansion...
I've got one round of the .380 and I'll be darned if I can remember which one it is but it expanded to .500...! I think it's a Winchester round. Extreme uniformity with the copper jacket laid back and around the base of the bullet like some one was tucking them away for storage... One petal on top of the other all the way around...
.380 Golden Sabres passed completely through and was found spinning on the table top. Total failure to expand but was not due to clothing plugged in the hollow point...
Barrel length on the KT is 1-3/4".
Clothing barrier was Carharts in excellant condition with a sweatshirt backing... |
Hair today, gone tomorrow...! |
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hbear222
Junior Member
156 Posts |
Posted - November 21 2003 : 10:34:12 PM
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| Was that a Glock 19 with a 4" barrel or a Glock 17 with a 4.5" barrel. |
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hbear222
Junior Member
156 Posts |
Posted - November 21 2003 : 10:35:30 PM
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| Hmmm.....that should have had a question mark after it. |
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Evan
Administrator
27524 Posts |
Posted - November 21 2003 : 10:56:28 PM
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| listed it as a Glock 19 under chrono results don't know if he did under expansion |
"The greatest thing a Father can do for his children is to love their Mother."
Harold B. Lee
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buck
Senior Member
569 Posts |
Posted - November 21 2003 : 11:35:14 PM
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Never heard of carhart. From googling it looks like insulated workwear; not used here in Tejas.
I'm right impressed with the .380 Gold Dots, I may switch to it from HydraShoks for my new backpocket P-3AT. Is that a good move? |
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PDogSniper
Senior Member
655 Posts |
Posted - November 21 2003 : 11:51:06 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by buck
Never heard of carhart. From googling it looks like insulated workwear; not used here in Tejas.
I'm right impressed with the .380 Gold Dots, I may switch to it from HydraShoks for my new backpocket P-3AT. Is that a good move?
Buck,
Carharts are a clothing popular in the construction trades. It's a material somewhere inbetween Bluejeans and tent canvas. Extremely durable. These particular Carharts were of the two layer type, Canvas with a felt type material for the inner layer. It's a medium cold weather wear. Underneath this was a layer of "sweatshirt"...
The Gold Dots work well in .32 acp also... |
Hair today, gone tomorrow...! |
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E4E
Moderator
USA
6451 Posts |
Posted - November 22 2003 : 12:21:56 AM
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Buck,
Carhart is a brand.
Their stuff is famous up here and actually a bit of a fashion statement.
Several statements from victims of Bear maulings indicate that thier Carharts saved them from worse damage.
Have seen with my own peepers a kick back from a chainsaw that resulted in little more than a scratch thanks to the Carhart.
The things are HEAVY.
Lining is Wool Felt.
From about mid October through mid May,a very large portion of folks are wearing the things as an outer layer and usually over either a sweat shirt or sweater.
The material is much heavier than 4 layers of Denim and as much as I trust the "Average" that 4 layers of denim represents,we got a wild hair a while back and decided that the worst case scenario of 4 layers of Denim might be a bit conservative in these parts,and possibly a look into what folks are actually wearing was in order.
We also did leather on top of several insulating layers a while back.
Goofy thing is....
The best loads work equally well between the Carhart and layers or the Leather and layers.
Next shoot I gotta wild hair.
There's something that's been bugging me.
I'll drop the beans before the shoot in the spring.
Gotta do some digging in the meantime.
Check the Gold dots for feed and cycling reliability before switching...as always.
E4E
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Keep the Rifle handy! |
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Evan
Administrator
27524 Posts |
Posted - November 22 2003 : 07:29:05 AM
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I might switch rnds after we fired 15 or 20 from diff guns into jello, but not one.
Gold Dot is an excellent bullet but so are HS, Golden Saber, HST, etc-carry what function 100% in your gun and then shoot, shoot, shoot |
"The greatest thing a Father can do for his children is to love their Mother."
Harold B. Lee
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Evan
Administrator
27524 Posts |
Posted - November 22 2003 : 07:33:07 AM
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I think for the next gello shoot we need to get a second opinion, ie: shoot the same load from a diff gun, etc. Ome swallow does not make a summer and we ought to be sure we're not testing loads that are not represenative of the breed-gello boy-up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
"The greatest thing a Father can do for his children is to love their Mother."
Harold B. Lee
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buck
Senior Member
569 Posts |
Posted - November 22 2003 : 08:15:08 AM
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| P-3AT barrel length 2.68" |
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Talker
Senior Member
USA
688 Posts |
Posted - November 22 2003 : 09:01:54 AM
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Buck, I think P-dog was measuring from the front of the chamber the way you would a revolver. Your measurement is the entire barrel. In a way, you're both right. Barrel and chamber together is the way autos are commonly measured.
Evan says he's underwelmed by the .380 but I actually find the little thing intriguing. I carry a P-32 BUG but there's no denying the .380 seemed to have more ability to penetrate clothing barriers and still perform. When we tried the leather and sweatshirt barrier a couple months back even the .32 silvertip failed. Usually, it's pretty reliable.
Hmmmmmm.
Why do I think this little adventure is eventually going to cost me money?
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GLV
Moderator
USA
8190 Posts |
Posted - November 22 2003 : 4:33:24 PM
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| I am trying to remember if we had any failure to expand that we could blame on the clothing cover, anybody? |
'the world is round everywhere'
'The meek will inherit the earth, but only after the last soldier has left it to them in his will' |
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Topic |
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Jello Murder Resuslts
