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 Federal .30 Super Carry
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Ten Driver
Advanced Member

2051 Posts

Posted - January 08 2022 :  12:25:13 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
In case you guys havenít heard yet, Federal has announced a new pistol caliber thatís specifically aimed at the armed citizen market.

Specs call for a 100 grain, .312Ē bullet, clocking 1,250 fps at the muzzle.

Federal claims lower recoil, compared to 9mm, and increased capacity for the same size magazine (about +2 rounds, in a typical magazine).

Color me skeptical, but it will be interesting to watch how this goes.

Charlie Foxtrot
Average Member

310 Posts

Posted - January 08 2022 :  02:27:41 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Congratulations Ten Driver, I was waiting to see how long it would take for someone on this board to mention the 30 Super Carry. I had seen that S&W recently announced the M&P Shield EZ chambered for this caliber cartridge. Fits into P.T. Barnumís, ďThereís a sucker born every minute,Ē category. George Carlin said more colorfully than Iíll post here, ďNail two pieces of wood together and some (one) will buy it.Ē

Too bad S&W doesnít focus on producing some good quality metal framed TDA pistols, and the ammunition manufacturers produce larger quantities of serious caliber cartridges, both at reasonable prices.

Edited by - Charlie Foxtrot on January 08 2022 02:30:06 AM
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gauchobill
Advanced Member

1209 Posts

Posted - January 08 2022 :  08:05:48 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Sounds like a gimmick, created in order to have something different in order to market something new.
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Ace
Advanced Member

USA
6071 Posts

Posted - January 08 2022 :  08:14:45 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'm waiting for the .45 GAP to catch on. Ace

Give me $1 every time a Liberal lies, I'll give you $5 every time one tells the truth; I'll end up a wealthy man, you'll end up broke.
If pro-gunners are as murderous as anti-gunners claim, why are there so many anti-gunners still running their mouths?
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Chris Christian
Advanced Member

USA
3870 Posts

Posted - January 08 2022 :  12:39:52 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'm not so certain that this wouldn't be an effective personal defense small caliber. The listed velocity is in the same range as a 125 grain 9mm +P, and the bullet weight is only 25 grains less, while its .312 diameter would likely provide similar penetration. It certainly would exceed .380 ACP performance. Given a good bullet, like Federal's HST, the advantage of increased capacity and lower recoil (if the recoil is truly lower) would certainly be an improvement over the popular .380.

I'm not certain I would sneer at it just yet.

Chris Christian
There are those who make things happen. There are those who watch things happen. There are those who wonder What The Heck happened! Pick one.
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Arvinator
Advanced Member

USA
5651 Posts

Posted - January 08 2022 :  4:20:02 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
It was 1995 before I got my first .40 Caliber handgun and it's at the bottom of the list of calibers I personally like.

I have a "Arvin wish list" of things, they may be out there, or maybe not but a new caliber is not on it.

I hope it goes well and saves good people from evil.

Be honest, fair, and always prepared...
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miragetex
Junior Member

USA
116 Posts

Posted - January 08 2022 :  6:26:14 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Sounds similar to the path that led Federal to introduce the 327 Federal Magnum, but the rimless 30 Super is aimed at different firearm platforms from the rimmed 327. Indeed, the listed ballestics are not that much different between the Super 30 and the 327. As a long-time fan of the Super 38 (or 38 Super, if you insist), I see plenty of chances for confusion between inexperienced shooters and unskilled clerks in gun stores.
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arty
Junior Member

117 Posts

Posted - January 09 2022 :  2:12:17 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Sounds like the old 30 caliber Mauser round.
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Ten Driver
Advanced Member

2051 Posts

Posted - January 09 2022 :  7:19:23 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Chris Christian

I'm not so certain that this wouldn't be an effective personal defense small caliber.
I'm not certain I would sneer at it just yet.



Chris, my skepticism is primarily based on logistics and market factors.

I donít see this caliber making a significant enough dent in the 9mm and .380 ACP sales to thrive (maybe even, survive). I think the ballistic performance looks OK (not as good as 9mm, but perhaps an edge over .380) but the promoted advantages arenít compelling enough to lure many folks away from established 9/.380 platforms.

Then, thereís the ammo crisis. At a time when a staple like 9mm is in such short supply, I think itís unlikely that manufacturers will commit to build enough .30 Super ammo to make it readily available. Itís also unlikely this new ammo will be as affordable as 9mm, or even .380, due to economies of scale. Those calibers are made all over the world, by just about everyone who makes ammo. The .30 Super will only be made by 1 or 2 companies.

So, it will probably cost more than .380 and 9mm, wonít work as well as 9mm, will be harder to find . . . yeah, I think it will be a very heavy lift for this cartridge to establish a foothold, regardless of whatever perceived benefits it might offer.
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gauchobill
Advanced Member

1209 Posts

Posted - January 10 2022 :  10:05:30 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yes, a new gimmick for the market place.
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Chris Christian
Advanced Member

USA
3870 Posts

Posted - January 10 2022 :  3:18:27 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ten Driver

quote:
Originally posted by Chris Christian

I'm not so certain that this wouldn't be an effective personal defense small caliber.
I'm not certain I would sneer at it just yet.



Chris, my skepticism is primarily based on logistics and market factors.

I donít see this caliber making a significant enough dent in the 9mm and .380 ACP sales to thrive (maybe even, survive). I think the ballistic performance looks OK (not as good as 9mm, but perhaps an edge over .380) but the promoted advantages arenít compelling enough to lure many folks away from established 9/.380 platforms.

Then, thereís the ammo crisis. At a time when a staple like 9mm is in such short supply, I think itís unlikely that manufacturers will commit to build enough .30 Super ammo to make it readily available. Itís also unlikely this new ammo will be as affordable as 9mm, or even .380, due to economies of scale. Those calibers are made all over the world, by just about everyone who makes ammo. The .30 Super will only be made by 1 or 2 companies.

So, it will probably cost more than .380 and 9mm, wonít work as well as 9mm, will be harder to find . . . yeah, I think it will be a very heavy lift for this cartridge to establish a foothold, regardless of whatever perceived benefits it might offer.



I can certainly see your point. But it doesn't have to be the Biggest-Hottest thing of 2022. The performance advantage over .380 (which is considerable, and where it should be considered, not against the 9mm) is something that may come in down the road -- especially with as many new personal protection gun owners who are purchasing firearms now.

Time will tell. But when the smaller cartridge diameter of the 30 Federal allows two more rounds into a compact 380, with an increase in performance, it may find a home.

Chris Christian
There are those who make things happen. There are those who watch things happen. There are those who wonder What The Heck happened! Pick one.
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Frogfoot
Senior Member

USA
931 Posts

Posted - January 11 2022 :  04:21:16 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Chris Christian

I'm not so certain that this wouldn't be an effective personal defense small caliber. The listed velocity is in the same range as a 125 grain 9mm +P, and the bullet weight is only 25 grains less, while its .312 diameter would likely provide similar penetration. It certainly would exceed .380 ACP performance. Given a good bullet, like Federal's HST, the advantage of increased capacity and lower recoil (if the recoil is truly lower) would certainly be an improvement over the popular .380.

I'm not certain I would sneer at it just yet.



There are a lot of people who sneer at the .327 Federal, but I think that a lot of those same people have never fired one. I know I was shocked the first time I touched one off! This new offering from Federal sounds like it has some promise, but I'm not sure if their timing is especially good. What established loads are going to get cut back in order to make some room for this new round? Personally, I'm a sucker for oddball cartridges, so I may look at this one seriously at some point.

We make a living by what we get, we make a life by what we give. - Sir Winston Churchill
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jle3030
Advanced Member

USA
5808 Posts

Posted - January 11 2022 :  10:13:12 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Between the plethora of mini 9mm pistols and the mini-er .380's it will be a tight squeeze to successfully market the .30 Super Carry. Particularly when the first guns available appear to be from Nighthawk (Pricey!) and the S&W's adaptation of the 9mm Shield Plus platform. The buyer gets a couple more rounds of ammo capacity, but less power than the current king-of-the hill 9mm; same platform (so far) as the existing 9mm's; with an ammo MSRP approximately 50% greater than 9mm. I expect that to be a hard sell to both the entrenched 9mm shooters and those mini .380 fans who insist on the smallest possible guns.

I've not seen a .30 Super Carry pistol, let alone shot one. I have no feelings for or against the new gun/cartridge combination. But I'm thinking .45GAP redux.

Jeff

jle3030
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fsilber
Senior Member

USA
542 Posts

Posted - January 12 2022 :  3:44:08 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The revolver cartridge equivalent makes sense; you can get six in a J-Frame with as much power as a .38special.

For an auto-pistol, this to a 9mm is like 9mm to a .45acp. Smaller, lighter bullet -- more speed. I would think 9mm would be better than .30 Federal for all the same reasons many people prefer .45acp over 9mm.

People do choose 9mm over .45, so it has some advantages. Would .30 Federal have even more of those advantages?

1. There are reliable, controllable 9mm pistols too small to be reliable and controllable in .45acp. Could you control a .30 Federal in a gun too small to be controllable and reliable with 9mm? (E.g. the size of a Kel-tec .380acp)? If so, it might be better than a .380acp in a hide-out gun.

2. You can have significantly greater capacity with a 9mm than with a .45acp. Would guns in .30 Federal have significantly greater capacity than guns that size in 9mm? (E.g. could you have a Kahr PM9 with a double-stack .30 Federal magazine?)


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Evan
Administrator

34928 Posts

Posted - January 13 2022 :  2:42:42 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
We own 6 handguns-one in 9MM, one J frame in .38 Special, 2 J frames in .357 Mag, one J frame in .22 long rifle, and one AR pistol in 5.56MM. And two rifles. Have 53 years' worth of food and other emergency needs supplies!.

"The greatest thing a Father can do for his children is to love their Mother."

Harold B. Lee

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Ten Driver
Advanced Member

2051 Posts

Posted - January 18 2022 :  12:45:13 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I shot the S&W Shield Plus in the Federal 30 Super Carry today, and liked it. The cartridge is brisk, and the weapon cycles quickly, but I would not describe it as ďsnappyĒ because there was such little muzzle rise. I think the best way to describe it is to say it has the recoil impulse of a weak 115 grain 9mm round, but the slide seems to cycle more quickly.

Itís still not as potent a cartridge as many flavors of the 9mm, but it nips at the low end, with a 100 grain bullet at 1,250 fps (advertised).

Ballistics aside, I still think this cartridge faces a steep climb in todayís market. Iím not going to hold my breath on this one. I think it will be difficult for it to obtain a foot hold unless thereís a plentiful ammo supply, and that seems doubtful as of this writing. Weíll see.
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