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gw
Advanced Member

4784 Posts

Posted - September 18 2019 :  7:11:54 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
So there it is, the new background checks will require all transactions be recorded

But I would bet they already are, despite restrictions.

Make no mistake they are recording credit cards transactions, Internet searches, pro gun memberships, etc.

The Government knows, after 911 we gave them that authority

And they don't need to come to your door!

They will send you a notice to comply

Failure will lead to

Your VA benefits delayed
Your Social Security check withheld
Your Medicare coverage denied
Your bank accounts froze
Your income tax return stopped
Heck, your income tax audited

You name it, the Government can already do it

You will voluntarily turn in whatever they want you to surrender

Or end up in the street....

"Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not..."

Edited by - gw on September 18 2019 7:13:52 PM

jle3030
Advanced Member

USA
5527 Posts

Posted - September 18 2019 :  8:06:22 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
...unless you're a gang member. Rep Ken Buck was on Tucker Carlson's show last night complaining that last week the Democrat House Judiciary Committee members voted down his amendment that would have included gang members in their proposed Red Flag Law.

Jeff

jle3030
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Deputy25
Senior Member

USA
977 Posts

Posted - September 18 2019 :  8:29:29 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The government has no idea where most of the guns are. They know who bought them originally, but with no records required for transfer of long guns, they could be anywhere (at least in this state). Handguns are a different story, although I know folks that are building 80% Glocks at the rate of one per week.

Be the person your dog thinks you are.
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gw
Advanced Member

4784 Posts

Posted - September 19 2019 :  10:03:15 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Deputy25

The government has no idea where most of the guns are. They know who bought them originally, but with no records required for transfer of long guns, they could be anywhere (at least in this state). Handguns are a different story, although I know folks that are building 80% Glocks at the rate of one per week.



That's why currently "sensible gun safety" laws all include some type of registration.

States that have or will ban certain weapons, have started to grandfather existing weapons as long as we "just" register them.

The new universal background check laws mandate all "advertised" sales require a recorded NICS check.

That's not so much about stopping sales as recording/registering all sales.

If the last record shows you bought it, you'll need to tell them where it went, that will be the law, even private sale.

They can build profiles based on Internet searches, credit card transactions, or who you associate with.

For example if you're buying AR magazines and 5.56 ammo, they might think you own a rifle.

They learned from the '94 ban, they're correcting those mistakes

They have a scheme to find them, confiscate, and enforce

They are talking sweet, but jerks like Beto have tipped their hand.....

"Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not..."

Edited by - gw on September 19 2019 10:05:25 AM
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Ace
Advanced Member

USA
5663 Posts

Posted - September 19 2019 :  10:52:20 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Did I miss something? Haven't been able to catch the new the last couple days, and the 'So there it is' phrase in the first post scares me into thinking maybe the Dems and Repubs and .Pres have maybe come up with some kinda compromise they're gonna support? Please tell me it isn't so--if it really isn't so. Ace

Give me $1 every time a Liberal lies, I'll give you $5 every time one tells the truth; I'll end up a wealthy man, you'll end up broke.
If pro-gunners are as murderous as anti-gunners claim, why are there so many anti-gunners still running their mouths?
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Chris Christian
Advanced Member

USA
3642 Posts

Posted - September 19 2019 :  12:28:15 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ace

Did I miss something? Haven't been able to catch the new the last couple days, and the 'So there it is' phrase in the first post scares me into thinking maybe the Dems and Repubs and .Pres have maybe come up with some kinda compromise they're gonna support? Please tell me it isn't so--if it really isn't so. Ace



I have scanned the recent news on this subject... "So there it is"... isn't there at the moment. Nothing is in concrete, and the WH seems to be backing away from Universal Background Checks. Rumors fly. And some repeat them as fact

Chris Christian
There are those who make things happen. There are those who watch things happen. There are those who wonder What The Heck happened! Pick one.
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heavyweight
Senior Member

USA
848 Posts

Posted - September 19 2019 :  12:29:25 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Guns?? What guns??
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Ace
Advanced Member

USA
5663 Posts

Posted - September 19 2019 :  2:31:17 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
During a short break from work since I posted my question, I happened to hear a news blurb on the radio to the effect that the type of background checks the Dems are pushing for are not likely to happen. I'm going to take that, tentatively, as good news. We'll see.

One thing I could support would be mandatory, non-negotiable life without parole sentences for the mass shooters who survive their own actions--whether any victim die or not--both on the state and federal levels. Another thing I'd support would be mandatory, non-negotiable five year sentences--consecutive to any other prison sentenced imposed--for anyone possessing a firearm in the commission of a violent crime; ten years if the firearm is brandished or fired; and life without parole if a victim is killed or injured. Let's see if the Dems would support that. Ace

Give me $1 every time a Liberal lies, I'll give you $5 every time one tells the truth; I'll end up a wealthy man, you'll end up broke.
If pro-gunners are as murderous as anti-gunners claim, why are there so many anti-gunners still running their mouths?
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Bill D
Advanced Member

USA
1242 Posts

Posted - September 19 2019 :  2:42:09 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Lets rehab Alcatraz and put it to good use again.

Bill D
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monte
Starting Member

USA
12 Posts

Posted - September 19 2019 :  2:47:21 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Don't know how close this is to the truth. Or what changes will be made to it.

DOJ Proposal for UBCs

Several MSM sites have reported that AG Barr is shopping around a UBC proposal that supposedly has POTUS' blessing, although the While House denies that. Some independent online sites have posted a document that is claimed to be a leaked outline of the proposal. It is always hard to figure the truth of these things, but it does seem to be a pattern that controversial government stuff gets leaked before it becomes official as a way of "testing the waters." The outline can be found online various places. I will not say I am for it, but I will also say I think it is not as bad as it could be.

The highlights are:

All "advertised commercial sales" of guns would have to go through the 4473/NICS process. That includes gun show sales. The proposal says nothing about purely private, non-commercial sales, gifts, inheritances, loaning or renting of guns, etc. so presumably those would be unaffected.
The 4473/NICS process could be facilitated by an FFL or a new licensure called a "transfer agent." These agents would not be FFLs. The would be able to just facilitate in-state sales through the 4473/NICS process.
Here is an interesting wrinkle that may be positive: Normally the FFL or agent would retain the records, but there would be an option that sellers could request the FFL or agent NOT retain the sale records, but be allowed to retain the records themselves. The FFL or agent would issue two documents, a bill of sale and a certification that the NICS check was passed. There would be criminal penalties for individuals not retaining the records. This could be positive, because there is no way the feds could database records that are only retained by the seller.
Also possibly positive, the FFL or agent would not be allowed to retain personal ID information on the buyer for a facilitated sale. Again, information not retained cannot be databased.

.
.
Monte
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gw
Advanced Member

4784 Posts

Posted - September 19 2019 :  2:55:41 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Chris Christian

quote:
Originally posted by Ace

Did I miss something? Haven't been able to catch the new the last couple days, and the 'So there it is' phrase in the first post scares me into thinking maybe the Dems and Repubs and .Pres have maybe come up with some kinda compromise they're gonna support? Please tell me it isn't so--if it really isn't so. Ace



I have scanned the recent news on this subject... "So there it is"... isn't there at the moment. Nothing is in concrete, and the WH seems to be backing away from Universal Background Checks. Rumors fly. And some repeat them as fact



Not meant to be taken as a statement of fact, some on the internet troubleshoot everything posted.

If you're really searching the net you'ld see it in conversation

This is in the text of legislation currently proposed, like posted above AG leaked it yesterday.

If you think NICS checks aren't being recorded, I've got ocean front in Arizona

Nothing is ever really deleted...

Forwarded is forarmed

"Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not..."

Edited by - gw on September 19 2019 3:11:11 PM
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Chris Christian
Advanced Member

USA
3642 Posts

Posted - September 19 2019 :  3:06:16 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by gw

quote:
Originally posted by Chris Christian

quote:
Originally posted by Ace

Did I miss something? Haven't been able to catch the new the last couple days, and the 'So there it is' phrase in the first post scares me into thinking maybe the Dems and Repubs and .Pres have maybe come up with some kinda compromise they're gonna support? Please tell me it isn't so--if it really isn't so. Ace



I have scanned the recent news on this subject... "So there it is"... isn't there at the moment. Nothing is in concrete, and the WH seems to be backing away from Universal Background Checks. Rumors fly. And some repeat them as fact



Not meant to be taken as a statement of fact, some on the internet troubleshoot everything posted.

If you're really searching the net you'ld see it in conversation

This is in the text of legislation currently proposed

Forwarded is forarmed



Sure sounded like a "statement of fact" for those that were not following the issue

Chris Christian
There are those who make things happen. There are those who watch things happen. There are those who wonder What The Heck happened! Pick one.
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gw
Advanced Member

4784 Posts

Posted - September 19 2019 :  3:12:32 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
My writting good ain't so much.

"Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not..."
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Chris Christian
Advanced Member

USA
3642 Posts

Posted - September 19 2019 :  3:15:07 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ace

During a short break from work since I posted my question, I happened to hear a news blurb on the radio to the effect that the type of background checks the Dems are pushing for are not likely to happen. I'm going to take that, tentatively, as good news. We'll see.

One thing I could support would be mandatory, non-negotiable life without parole sentences for the mass shooters who survive their own actions--whether any victim die or not--both on the state and federal levels. Another thing I'd support would be mandatory, non-negotiable five year sentences--consecutive to any other prison sentenced imposed--for anyone possessing a firearm in the commission of a violent crime; ten years if the firearm is brandished or fired; and life without parole if a victim is killed or injured. Let's see if the Dems would support that. Ace



Those proposals make a lot of sense. But, I would change one thing -- if a victim dies during a mass shooting, or the use of a firearm in the commission of a felony.... life without parole is, IMHO, insufficient. Strap 'em in and stick the needle. Or, resurrect 'Old Sparky'. Or, a firing squad.

The thugs who commit those actions do not deserve 'three hots and a cot, and cable TV' for the rest of their lives. They forfeited that right when they took innocent lives for their own twisted purposes.

Evil exists. Send them quickly to where Evil belongs.

Chris Christian
There are those who make things happen. There are those who watch things happen. There are those who wonder What The Heck happened! Pick one.
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Chris Christian
Advanced Member

USA
3642 Posts

Posted - September 19 2019 :  3:23:23 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by gw

My writting good ain't so much.



That's obvious. The "Sky Is Falling" gets a bit old when it's not falling

Chris Christian
There are those who make things happen. There are those who watch things happen. There are those who wonder What The Heck happened! Pick one.
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gw
Advanced Member

4784 Posts

Posted - September 19 2019 :  3:56:45 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks....

Sticking your head in the sand doesn't mean the sky ain't falling

Try not reading it if it bothers you

"Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not..."
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Chris Christian
Advanced Member

USA
3642 Posts

Posted - September 19 2019 :  5:28:24 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by gw

Thanks....

Sticking your head in the sand doesn't mean the sky ain't falling

Try not reading it if it bothers you



The pursuit of knowledge requires digesting all facts and data. From that, one can glean what is actual fact, versus unsubstantiated
opinion... or just "Chicken Little" rantings about how "The sky is falling, run for your lives!"

I'll continue to pursue knowledge, even if it means reading the occasional rant

Chris Christian
There are those who make things happen. There are those who watch things happen. There are those who wonder What The Heck happened! Pick one.
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Deputy25
Senior Member

USA
977 Posts

Posted - September 19 2019 :  8:01:01 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by heavyweight

Guns?? What guns??



What HW said

Be the person your dog thinks you are.
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gw
Advanced Member

4784 Posts

Posted - September 20 2019 :  10:43:40 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Chris Christian

quote:
Originally posted by gw

Thanks....

Sticking your head in the sand doesn't mean the sky ain't falling

Try not reading it if it bothers you



The pursuit of knowledge requires digesting all facts and data. From that, one can glean what is actual fact, versus unsubstantiated
opinion... or just "Chicken Little" rantings about how "The sky is falling, run for your lives!"

I'll continue to pursue knowledge, even if it means reading the occasional rant



Here's a rant from NRA-ILA

ABOUT H.R. 8/S. 42

As an advisor to the Obama administration wrote, the effectiveness of a universal background regime "depends on … requiring gun registration…;" this bill weakens protections against using NICS checks to create a registry and sets the stage for future firearm registration requirements.

If you haven't kept up, this was passed by the house and setting in the Senate today


"Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not..."
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Chris Christian
Advanced Member

USA
3642 Posts

Posted - September 20 2019 :  12:19:13 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by gw

quote:
Originally posted by Chris Christian

quote:
Originally posted by gw

Thanks....

Sticking your head in the sand doesn't mean the sky ain't falling

Try not reading it if it bothers you



The pursuit of knowledge requires digesting all facts and data. From that, one can glean what is actual fact, versus unsubstantiated
opinion... or just "Chicken Little" rantings about how "The sky is falling, run for your lives!"

I'll continue to pursue knowledge, even if it means reading the occasional rant



Here's a rant from NRA-ILA

ABOUT H.R. 8/S. 42

As an advisor to the Obama administration wrote, the effectiveness of a universal background regime "depends on … requiring gun registration…;" this bill weakens protections against using NICS checks to create a registry and sets the stage for future firearm registration requirements.

If you haven't kept up, this was passed by the house and setting in the Senate today





Just because a liberal Democrat-controlled House passed a bill and sent it to the Senate doesn't mean "OMG!!! The sky is falling!!"

Will the Senate even take it up for a vote? Will it pass if a vote is cast? Will President Trump sign it? If he vetoes it, does the Senate have the votes to override the veto?

Let's see. But, I'm betting NO on all of the above.

But, what the heck... if some are happy screaming "OMG!! The sky is falling!! Run for your lives!!".... who am I to deny them there moment of pleasure

Chris Christian
There are those who make things happen. There are those who watch things happen. There are those who wonder What The Heck happened! Pick one.
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gw
Advanced Member

4784 Posts

Posted - September 20 2019 :  1:49:17 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Not screaming, so stop the personel insults

I watched AG Barr's news conference discussing the Administrations version of the UBC, monte posted some details above.

That is the house bill with some tweaks, one big mass shooting away

Trump might stall this out, but the 2020 elections are 13 months away

A big handful of Republican Senators are not running in 2020, the Senate might be in play, Democrats in control who knows

Going to be an issue in 2020

The problem discussing politics on the Internet, any idiot can read it, know what I mean :)

"Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not..."
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Chris Christian
Advanced Member

USA
3642 Posts

Posted - September 20 2019 :  2:58:40 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by gw

Not screaming, so stop the personel insults

The problem discussing politics on the Internet, any idiot can read it, know what I mean :)



I guess, like the liberal Democrats.... "so stop the personel (sic) insults" only applies to those who have responded to their previous insulting language. And not while said libs freely engage in responding with their own? Seems like a one-way street.

Know what I mean

Chris Christian
There are those who make things happen. There are those who watch things happen. There are those who wonder What The Heck happened! Pick one.

Edited by - Chris Christian on September 20 2019 3:08:21 PM
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fiasconva
Average Member

USA
269 Posts

Posted - September 20 2019 :  3:30:42 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I've had to endure a background check for every firearm, including a shotgun, I've purchased from a dealer for the last 12 years at least.

"The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." Thomas Jefferson
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Chris Christian
Advanced Member

USA
3642 Posts

Posted - September 20 2019 :  5:54:00 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The proposed Universal Background check, that has been published/leaked, and not so far endorsed by POTUS... would require a background check for all 'advertised' firearms sales... including those that take place across the non-FFL counter at gun shows. FFL licensed dealers at a gun show already have to do a background check. It also includes sales over the internet -- which, if they cross state lines -- also require a background check, and a shipment to a FFL licensed dealer to legally complete the transaction.

So what's new? That... except for non-FFL sales at gun shows... is standard now. And, seems to be pretty commonsense, at least to me.

As for direct sales among friends, family, occurring in the same state, nothing has changed. It's still a YES. Out-of-state sales, same as today... ship to an FFL.

I'm not sure I'm seeing the "OMG!!! The sky is falling!!!"... thingy here.

There is a provision, in some cases, to require the seller provide a written bill of sale. But, that's just commonsense to start with. An intelligent seller wants to show to whom, and when, the gun the 4473 say he bought, went. An intelligent buyer would also want to show from whom, and when, he acquired the gun. I have test guns coming in for NRA articles all the time. Some I return. Some I may pass on to club members (who I know have had to go through a NCIC check just to join, and most of whom have a FL CCW permit... second check) so why not give them a bill of sale?

I fail to see the sky falling, based upon what has been so far released.

I'm sure that won't stop some from the "Sky is falling" hysteria. But I wonder if it is just hysteria, versus an actual understanding of the proposals. And... at this point that's all they are --- proposals.
Not law.




Chris Christian
There are those who make things happen. There are those who watch things happen. There are those who wonder What The Heck happened! Pick one.
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WR Moore
Advanced Member

USA
1001 Posts

Posted - September 21 2019 :  7:11:04 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Perhaps the best way to illustrate the problem of the "universal background check" is to use something else in common use as the subject.

Neighbor needs to borrow your car. You have to go to the DMV and swap the title. They bring it back, another trip to DMV. DMV is closed? Sorry Charley, no can do. Plus the fees for every transfer. But: it gets better. You're shopping for a new car and want to sit in it or take it for a test drive: title transfer again-twice. Need to take driving lessons, back to the DMV.

Beware the politically obsessed. They are often bright and interesting, but they have something missing in their natures, there is a hole, an empty place and they use politics to fill it up. It leaves them somehow misshapen. Peggy Noonan


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Ace
Advanced Member

USA
5663 Posts

Posted - September 21 2019 :  8:06:14 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Would it, or would it not, be fair and equitable for any Red Flag infringement legislation to include cars, kitchen knives, sharp or blunt tools in the garage, cans of gasoline/matches, bricks from around the flower bed, chunks of firewood, pillows---anything that a person could use to injure or kill another person? Maybe even turn off the electricity so they can't run a wire from an outlet to the bathtub? I mean, after all, the goal is to keep an imbalanced person from harming family members or anybody else.

Yes, silly and stupid; but just an illustration to point out the actual goal of these 'DO SOMETHING!' reactions---registration and disarmament. Ace

Give me $1 every time a Liberal lies, I'll give you $5 every time one tells the truth; I'll end up a wealthy man, you'll end up broke.
If pro-gunners are as murderous as anti-gunners claim, why are there so many anti-gunners still running their mouths?
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