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 The 1911
 steel cases
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Russ Larges
Moderator

USA
2403 Posts

Posted - July 07 2019 :  09:05:36 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Any good? The cost of .45acp is considerably more then the nines I am used to shooting and I need some factory stuff while I get my casting gear in order.
Russ

The pistol, learn it well, carry it allways. Jeff Cooper

gw
Advanced Member

4707 Posts

Posted - July 07 2019 :  10:26:44 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I use Wolf steel case in my 1911s, no issues after 10 years.

both in S&W external extractor guns and original extractor designs

Army issued steel case ammo in WWII for training, problem was preventing corrosion during storage

when an extractor fails in a weapon using brass cased ammo it's called normal wear, when steel cased ammo was used it's blamed on the ammo?

keep the chamber cleaned, but other wise Hornady and Federal don't see a problem, so they load steel cases

everyone has an opinion.......


"Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not..."
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ACP230
Advanced Member

1074 Posts

Posted - July 07 2019 :  8:54:51 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
My guns prefer brass cases.

"Never part with your weapons when you are in the field. You never know when, on some lengthy plain, you may suddenly need your spear." Old Norse saying.
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gw
Advanced Member

4707 Posts

Posted - July 07 2019 :  9:54:46 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
History of Modern U.S. Military Small Arms Ammunition" Volume 2 page 43
The first lot of steel cased carbine ammo (ES-255607) was completed by Evansville in September 1943 and forwarded to APG. Aberdeen Proving Ground fired 24,000 rounds and said it compared very favorably with brass cased ammo. The U.S.M.C. fired 500,000 steel cased rounds and found it a satisfactory substitute. On October 11,1945 steel cased carbine ammo was approved for training use.

LG Levin H. Campbell, Jr.,Chief of Ordnance from 1942-46, wrote in December 1943: "When brass was available, we used brass. When brass became critical, Industry achieved one of the mechanical miracles of this war and made it possible for Ordnance to convert to steel. Ordnance was satisfied with the results, but now that brass is again available, and since our combat units prefer brass, we are reverting to brass.

"Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not..."
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jle3030
Advanced Member

USA
5495 Posts

Posted - July 08 2019 :  07:50:11 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Russ Larges

Any good? The cost of .45acp is considerably more then the nines I am used to shooting and I need some factory stuff while I get my casting gear in order.
Russ

I'm reading this as an interim measure until the reloading process is up and running? If so, I'd spend the extra $$ on brass case ammo to accumulate a supply for that. You'll quickly recoup the cost in the recycling process. .45ACP brass lasts a long time. Or until it disappears in the grass.

As for economical one time use (if there is such a thing) I've had decent results from CCI Blazer aluminum case 9mm and .45.

Jeff

jle3030
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Russ Larges
Moderator

USA
2403 Posts

Posted - July 08 2019 :  5:21:45 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by jle3030

quote:
Originally posted by Russ Larges

Any good? The cost of .45acp is considerably more then the nines I am used to shooting and I need some factory stuff while I get my casting gear in order.
Russ

I'm reading this as an interim measure until the reloading process is up and running? If so, I'd spend the extra $$ on brass case ammo to accumulate a supply for that. You'll quickly recoup the cost in the recycling process. .45ACP brass lasts a long time. Or until it disappears in the grass.

As for economical one time use (if there is such a thing) I've had decent results from CCI Blazer aluminum case 9mm and .45.

Jeff




Jeff, I have several thousand pieces of brass now, just no bullets, hence the need to reinstall my casting system. Hope to get it going this week.
Russ

The pistol, learn it well, carry it allways. Jeff Cooper
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Dov
Advanced Member

USA
2744 Posts

Posted - July 14 2019 :  10:20:24 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I realize this is a 1911 thread but curious about steel cased ammo in AR's?

Ive only ever used steel cased ammo in SKS's & AK's, figure Soviets designed them to work with steel cases.

I never had a problem using steel cases ammo in SKS & AK.

As to Blazer aluminum ammo neither my dad's 6 or my 4 Security Six liked it, the both had sticky extraction. Think it was both 38 & 357 ammo but not certain its been long time.

But Ive used the aluminum cased 44 Special 200 GDHP for over 20 years IIRC in my S&W 629, never had any issues with that load in that gun.

It was my nightstand load for many years.
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Ace
Advanced Member

USA
5628 Posts

Posted - July 14 2019 :  10:35:28 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Dov, some rifles work fine with steel case, some don't. Mine actually liked the Wolf and Silver Bear quite well; always fed and ejected with no hiccups, and was plenty accurate for social services--55gr Soft Points were minute-of-water-bottle accurate out to 200 yards and more when I did my part. Really surprised me, but it was a pleasant surprise. Hope the poor misunderstood victim of his upbringing who stole it out of my truck enjoys it.
Then again I've heard from some people who say steel case stuff turned their AR's into single shots. I'd say try it; if your gun works with it, it makes for cheap practice. Be sure to keep the chamber clean, though. Ace

Give me $1 every time a Liberal lies, I'll give you $5 every time one tells the truth; I'll end up a wealthy man, you'll end up broke.
If pro-gunners are as murderous as anti-gunners claim, why are there so many anti-gunners still running their mouths?
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gw
Advanced Member

4707 Posts

Posted - July 15 2019 :  08:34:01 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I would have never touched the steel cased AR ammo prior to the Obama ammo shortage, that forced me into trying it

guess what, worked fine in 3 different ARs...

I did run into a case of Wolf marked non corrosive that was definately corrosive primers, so there is that

just a guess on my part, folks that report trouble with steel cased ammo might have actual .223 chambers as opposed to 5.56

but they could see issues with brass cased too

I have a .223 bull barrel upper that shows definite over pressure signs with 5.56, that would likely give me trouble if I was curious enough to try steel cased ammo in that, but I'm not.

"Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not..."
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WR Moore
Senior Member

USA
989 Posts

Posted - August 12 2019 :  11:44:14 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Back in the '60's -that's 1960's- I burned a slew of 1943/44 steel cased .45 without issue other than the cleaning needed for corrosive primers.

I'm leery of most steel .223/5.56 mm. If you look at the 7.62 x 39 mm case design, the taper is much more pronounced. Also, the operating pressure/MAP is much less than that of the .223/5.56 mm. All of which allow for much reduced extraction forces. It' been decades, but I believe the AK extractor is also much more robust. If I had to go steel case, I think I'd stick with Hornaday. Hopefully, they did sufficient product development to minimize any possible additional extraction loads and they do use decent bullets.

Beware the politically obsessed. They are often bright and interesting, but they have something missing in their natures, there is a hole, an empty place and they use politics to fill it up. It leaves them somehow misshapen. Peggy Noonan


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bandaidman
Advanced Member

USA
1462 Posts

Posted - August 13 2019 :  3:08:06 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Lucky gunner did a test on steel cased 5.56/223 and shot the barrels until they basically had worn them out. They used the same brand gun and 4 different types IIRR you can go to their web page and look it up. they ran them hot and cleaned them only when needed. If memory serves they eroded the barrel a bit quicker than brass but they were shooting it more like in a match or a war. I have a good friend who has a AR that just won't shoot steel. So I guess its more the guns preference rather than is it good or bad.

If for a while the harder you try, the harder it gets, take heart. So it has been with the best people who ever lived.
Jeffery Holland
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Ace
Advanced Member

USA
5628 Posts

Posted - August 13 2019 :  4:33:18 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
With the AR that I don't have anymore, I had good performance and accuracy with cheap Russky steel-case ammo--Wo!f and the Silver Bear line. Recently replaced the stolen AR, still deciding between a red dot or a scope; when that all gets sorted out, we'll see how the Russky stuff works. If it goes well, probably lay in a supply for social services, should that be necessary someday. PPU will be the go-to for pigs and coyotes, generally. Ace

Give me $1 every time a Liberal lies, I'll give you $5 every time one tells the truth; I'll end up a wealthy man, you'll end up broke.
If pro-gunners are as murderous as anti-gunners claim, why are there so many anti-gunners still running their mouths?

Edited by - Ace on August 13 2019 4:35:45 PM
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