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Yonder
Average Member

USA
252 Posts

Posted - December 17 2018 :  6:17:58 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Just for enjoyment and the fact I like a 10mm but not the other platforms: got the 4.5 one for a discount (a shop going under sadly). Got the free extra mags from Springfield Armory. Intended for carrying in woods. Ran a each of 5 loaded mags with Magtech through it for 75 rounds. Then 20 of 180 grain Hornady XTP. Both loads hit same point of aim at 20 yards. Easy palm sized grouping. 100 yard steel silhouette, hold on top/head and get consistent repeatable torso hits. Really a pleasure to shoot all considered.

...And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor.

Ace
Advanced Member

USA
5663 Posts

Posted - December 17 2018 :  6:49:06 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
If I could convince meself that I need another caliber in the stable, it would be the 10mm; versatile round, and lotsa good platforms out there for it--and the XDm would be high on the list of possibles. Congratulations on a good choice. Ace

Give me $1 every time a Liberal lies, I'll give you $5 every time one tells the truth; I'll end up a wealthy man, you'll end up broke.
If pro-gunners are as murderous as anti-gunners claim, why are there so many anti-gunners still running their mouths?

Edited by - Ace on December 17 2018 6:49:34 PM
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Pop Pop
Advanced Member

USA
1126 Posts

Posted - December 18 2018 :  10:14:13 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
It seems that the 10 MM is sprouting a new life after the FBI didn't retain it. There sure seems to be a lot of buzz in the private sector for the 10 MM. Hunt show host, Razor Dobbs, has taken everything Africa offers with a Dan Wesson 1911 style 10 MM. One knows the gun mags are touting it as the best thing since sliced bread, along with the AR 15.

Like Ace, I don't want to take on another caliber, as I am thinning my collection and giving my guns to my grandchildren. My Weatherby 30 06, tipped with a Redfield 3x9 scope, is going on a Santa trip next week. Hope my grandson likes the old caliber that Elmer Keith once said, "The 06 can do anything on the North American continent, and do it well," however the old 06 has lost a lot of it's standing in todays world. IMO, it is still one of the most vestal and reloadable calibers on the planet. It sure served my father and I well.

Edited to add;
I have been reading a lot about the 10MM and it seems to be a good caliber for heavy work. I kinda class it in the realm of the 44 magnum. Just a little too large for the public's perception, should one use one in the S D realm, because it could be classed as over kill like the 44 magnum public perception is. I bring to mind the guy in Louisiana(IMS) who shot the guy with the 44 mag. They tried to say the round was over kill and took him a lot of time and money to get through what transpired afterwards.

Maybe times have changed, but I doubt it!

Pop Pop

Edited by - Pop Pop on December 18 2018 10:57:23 AM
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Yonder
Average Member

USA
252 Posts

Posted - February 03 2019 :  8:54:06 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
More on the XDM 10mm. Bagged a 140 lb boar Friday. The 10mm auto is a great round and put it down on first shot at 25 yards. Using Hornady 180 grain XTP. Is not a 44 magnum which would have blown through and through each shot. End result was the same.


...And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor.
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Ace
Advanced Member

USA
5663 Posts

Posted - February 04 2019 :  12:14:12 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Some details, please? Shot placement? One hit or multiple? Any tracking? Recovered bullets?

Congrats on some good pork. Ace

Give me $1 every time a Liberal lies, I'll give you $5 every time one tells the truth; I'll end up a wealthy man, you'll end up broke.
If pro-gunners are as murderous as anti-gunners claim, why are there so many anti-gunners still running their mouths?
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Chris Christian
Advanced Member

USA
3642 Posts

Posted - February 04 2019 :  1:04:13 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
No firm data here, but the 10mm full-power loads are, basically, a lower-level .41 Magnum. I've shot some critters (deer & hogs) with the 180 Hornady XTP and been very happy. They wouldn't have dropped any deader if I'd shot them with my 6.5 inch .4 Mag revolver.

All shots were pistol, inside 50 yards. Some heart/lung, and a couple of point shoulder hits. No complaints.

Chris Christian
There are those who make things happen. There are those who watch things happen. There are those who wonder What The Heck happened! Pick one.
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Jim Higginbotham
Moderator

USA
9819 Posts

Posted - February 04 2019 :  4:40:01 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Yonder

More on the XDM 10mm. Bagged a 140 lb boar Friday. The 10mm auto is a great round and put it down on first shot at 25 yards. Using Hornady 180 grain XTP. Is not a 44 magnum which would have blown through and through each shot. End result was the same.





I would not worry a great deal about it Yonder, my first boar (which was fair size) was shot with a .44 Magnum Norma Carbine load shot from a 5" 29 - it clocks 1530 fps from that gun!

It was shout through the heart and I thought I missed it for about 15 seconds or so - there was not an opportunity for a follow up shots since it was fighting the dogs which were everywhere all at once.

finally he started to stagger and went down.

Every hog I've shot with a .45 auto went down on the spot save one - that one was...ah..."interesting" (I will never try to turn a .45 into a .357 magnum again!).

All that proves, well not much, the .45 auto is not "more powerful" than a .44 Magnum but there is a lot more to timely incapacitatation than ballistics.

After all, it isn't *if* they go down that counts, its if they go down *before* they mall you!

Jim

Get the Weaponcraft Journal on Amazon: Print or Kindle!

Edited by - Jim Higginbotham on February 04 2019 4:54:28 PM
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Jim Higginbotham
Moderator

USA
9819 Posts

Posted - February 04 2019 :  4:52:18 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Pop Pop

It seems that the 10 MM is sprouting a new life after the FBI didn't retain it. There sure seems to be a lot of buzz in the private sector for the 10 MM. Hunt show host, Razor Dobbs, has taken everything Africa offers with a Dan Wesson 1911 style 10 MM. One knows the gun mags are touting it as the best thing since sliced bread, along with the AR 15.
<snip>



This may be a bit down in the weeds, and only opinion, but the FBI both helped and hurt the 10mm.

Adopting it made people take notice. But they adopted it as a ".40 S&W in a long case" (the .40, while it was invented earlier, was not released until after the 10mm commercially (Smart guys at S&W - they knew what was coming).

Oddly enough though, the 10mm has been around, ballistically for over 100 years - its called a 38-40

Matter of fact, I shot the prototype Bren Ten. It was loaded with ammo made from cutting off .30 remington brass and stuffing it with the 180 gr. .400 JSP meant for the 38-40. I was told they went about 1150. Now we know the cartridge will do some better than that.

Alas the JSPs did not expand. You could get the 38-40 in a lead hollow point, according to Philip Sharpe, around 1900 - that likely worked but it was not a widely distributed load. That said, even in the normal flat point lead it enjoyed a fair reputation.

Ditto to Chris' comment on the 10mm (with full power factory loads), its just right there knocking on the door of a .41 Magnum - especially a 4" .44 Magnum which is larger than most of the autos we are talking about.

I haven't had time but I really want a 6" long-slide 1911 in 10mm for the field. I sure wish I had bought one of those S.A. Omegas!

Just Ramblin'

Jim H.

Get the Weaponcraft Journal on Amazon: Print or Kindle!
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Yonder
Average Member

USA
252 Posts

Posted - February 04 2019 :  10:30:29 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Details: multiple shots; 6. I shoot till its down as I learned reading Capstick. Shot 1-25 yards broadside in left shoulder angling through front of thorax stopping under hide in neck and shattering ribs as it passed. That put it down momentarily. Got on its feet, two more shots as it rose, one as it moved and down again only to rise a second time. With another two dropping it only several feet from where it initially stood. I counted 4 hits and three recovered bullets. The first expanded (modestly) and kept its jacket. A second thatbtraversed the vitals shed its jacket, it went through bone and soft tissue. Thirds entered sternum and broke a rib on the back stopping mid backstrap. It did not expand. The beast had heavy hair and maybe that and the bone stopped expansion. The 4th counted hit went through flesh on the skull as well as an ear (unless that was 5th but is doubtful) Lungs were hit with three of the shots. The only bullet that exited was the grazing headshot. All were in vital area. There would have been no blood trail if Id simply admired the first shot.

...And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor.
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Ace
Advanced Member

USA
5663 Posts

Posted - February 05 2019 :  12:08:28 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks, Yonder. That helps. Ace

Give me $1 every time a Liberal lies, I'll give you $5 every time one tells the truth; I'll end up a wealthy man, you'll end up broke.
If pro-gunners are as murderous as anti-gunners claim, why are there so many anti-gunners still running their mouths?
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BatteryOaksBilly
Junior Member

USA
211 Posts

Posted - February 06 2019 :  4:43:02 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I shot the Bren when the SLED contact here was dancing it around and put in a deposit. We all know how that turned out. At least I got back the deposit. If I remember right they were touting a 200 grain FMJTC at 1,200 at the time. I do remember it was brisk.
All that to say last week I put a 10mm Storm Lake barrel in my G21. With Only the barrel and a 10mm magazine I ran 100 rounds of 180 FMJ through it without a single problem. I also got some Underwood ammo in 135,165, and 200. The 200 feels pretty spiffy. The box says 1,250. I believe it.

Billy Bruton..Carry every step..Shoot every day!
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Yonder
Average Member

USA
252 Posts

Posted - February 07 2019 :  09:32:28 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
If you can believe the Internet and YouTube there is a source that Kronod the underwood ammo and the 200 grand was 1250+ out of a 5 inch barrel.

...And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor.
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Badge
Advanced Member

USA
1712 Posts

Posted - February 07 2019 :  12:43:02 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The 10mm seems to be finally getting it's due of late. Personally I never sought it out due to the FBI's troubles or perceived troubles with the round until I educated myself on the round itself. After much reading it is fast becoming the round of choice for many Guides and Outfitters as protection from aggressive Bears. Sadly one company either did not educate their Guide with it's use or he made a tragic error by not charging his weapon when a Bear attacked this past Elk season in Wyoming. Sad either way.
James,... I had a discussion with a friend who swears by the .45 auto for his Hogs and personally I prefer the .45 Colt. I imagine that either round can do the job but I've seen several instances of the auto round just not getting it done. There could be a plethora of reasons why and I am not denigrating the cartridge but I would be curious on your experience and input sir. Thanks in advance.

MSS
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Jim Higginbotham
Moderator

USA
9819 Posts

Posted - February 09 2019 :  6:21:10 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Badge

The 10mm seems to be finally getting it's due of late. Personally I never sought it out due to the FBI's troubles or perceived troubles with the round until I educated myself on the round itself. After much reading it is fast becoming the round of choice for many Guides and Outfitters as protection from aggressive Bears. Sadly one company either did not educate their Guide with it's use or he made a tragic error by not charging his weapon when a Bear attacked this past Elk season in Wyoming. Sad either way.
James,... I had a discussion with a friend who swears by the .45 auto for his Hogs and personally I prefer the .45 Colt. I imagine that either round can do the job but I've seen several instances of the auto round just not getting it done. There could be a plethora of reasons why and I am not denigrating the cartridge but I would be curious on your experience and input sir. Thanks in advance.



I've shot several wild boar with .45 Auto that dropped them to the shot (shot through the shoulder). The only problem I had with one, and oddly enough the smallest one I ever shot, though he might also have been the oldest and definitely had the longest tushes was 3 rounds through the "A-zone" with 165 gr. +P Power Ball. One round did put a hole in both lungs the other two only penetrated about 4" and fragmented, one hit the shoulder but did not break it.

I chased that critter well over a quarter mile! Fortunately my 4th round up was a 230 Winchester +P Ranger - that put an end to his flight but then by then he might have also been as tired as I was!

That said, if you give me the choice between most .45 Auto factory loads and a good .45 Colt 260 gr SWC or WC at around 900 fps I'd have to take the .45 Colt.

We had a fellow (an engineer for one of the big ammo makers) who hunted with us who converted a S&W model 58 to .45 Colt. I loaded his ammo - everything he shot dropped right in its tracks!

People think the .45 Auto is my favorite handgun cartridge - well for self defense it might be because of the platform but actually my favorite handgun cartridge is a toss up between the .45 Auto rim and the .45 Colt - for hunting in the "Lower 48" either one will kill anything that needs killing. I' haven't hunted much out west where there are some big critters that can hurt you - on rare occasions that I do I used 300 gr. bullets at around 1000 fps.

Fortunately, I have not had to see if that will dissuade a bear...yet.

A 3rd option I like is that I have a S&W 25-2 I re-chambered for .45 Win Mag - not to shoot Win-mag pressure loads but so I can load 300 gr. bullets with H-110 or 296 for lower pressure than I can do in .45 Auto rim.

Just Ramblin'

Jim H




Get the Weaponcraft Journal on Amazon: Print or Kindle!

Edited by - Jim Higginbotham on February 09 2019 6:34:31 PM
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Nanuk
Senior Member

USA
827 Posts

Posted - February 15 2019 :  09:52:29 AM  Show Profile  Click to see Nanuk's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Jim Higginbotham

All that proves, well not much, the .45 auto is not "more powerful" than a .44 Magnum but there is a lot more to timely incapacitatation than ballistics.


Bullet construction and Shot placement count too. A heavy hardcast screaming may penetrate well but it does not expand at all. My experience with the 44 magnum is that it has enough horsepower to penetrate and expand, especially in deer. I use the Speer 44 special 200 grain GD in my magnum loads for deer......

"May God have mercy upon my enemies, because I won't." Gen. George Patton
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Badge
Advanced Member

USA
1712 Posts

Posted - February 15 2019 :  09:58:58 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I very much appreciate the input Jim. Thank you. I've pretty much used the old .45 Colt round exclusively for Hogs and everything else for the past 20 years or so. Not to disparage any other cartridges but I've found a happy medium of power and recoil impulse which suites me.
Hog's are a lot like people it seems. Different Hogs have different personalities and aggressive tendencies at least in my experience. Anyhow,.. thank you once again sir.

MSS
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