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 Bond--or any other derringers
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Ace
Advanced Member

USA
5663 Posts

Posted - November 15 2018 :  09:51:57 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Apparently Bond Arms has an infomercial out there, touting their 2-shooters as 'defensive' guns. Been having a high number of people coming to the store wanting to look at them, and talking about carrying them for social purposes. I do my best to dissuade them, but some are convinced that if they have one in a pocket, they'd be ready to face the Mongol hordes. Especially disconcerting are the ones who want the .45/.410 model, and the little three- or four-ball .410 buckshot loads.
Thankfully, often the exorbitant price turns them off. Ace

Give me $1 every time a Liberal lies, I'll give you $5 every time one tells the truth; I'll end up a wealthy man, you'll end up broke.
If pro-gunners are as murderous as anti-gunners claim, why are there so many anti-gunners still running their mouths?

rev.
Advanced Member

1011 Posts

Posted - November 15 2018 :  10:54:27 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
While at the range an acquaintance insisted that I shoot his Bond 2 shot .38 spec. It's been said that you should never disrespect a man's horse, gun, or wife, so I really had to bite my tongue about this over weight pos that felt like a brick in my hand who's two shots at 7 yards were about a foot apart. It's hard to say that this Bond brick has no redeeming social value, but I'll leave that for someone else to find. The little Kel-Tec or Ruger LCP would be a far better choice as far as I'm concerned, but even there I know some folks would argue with me.
rev.
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Chris Christian
Advanced Member

USA
3642 Posts

Posted - November 15 2018 :  11:14:57 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'll take a lightweight .38 5-shot snubby, thank you. It's not much bigger and I don't have to cock it for each shot. Nor, do I have to ask for a 'time out' to reload it after two rounds

I will admit that many, many years ago I did carry a .22 Magnum High Standard two shot derringer... but it was DA, and a third gun.... it was, basically a "shoot twice, throw it in their face, and grab your knife" kind of 'last ditch' tool... or next to last ditch tool, since I had the knife

Chris Christian
There are those who make things happen. There are those who watch things happen. There are those who wonder What The Heck happened! Pick one.
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J Wagner
Junior Member

215 Posts

Posted - November 15 2018 :  12:06:16 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The good thing about derringers and similar micro-pistols is, once you realize their limitations and problems, you can recover most of your purchase price back from someone who hasn't realized that.
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Pop Pop
Advanced Member

USA
1126 Posts

Posted - November 15 2018 :  1:27:13 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I don't care for the 32 caliber as a primary EDC. Third gun perhaps after the second being a J frame, but if that is all you can handle, or have so be it. One is better than none, IMO.

Pop Pop
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LittleBill
Advanced Member

5558 Posts

Posted - November 15 2018 :  2:09:23 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Those Bond derringers weigh from 18.5 to 23.5 ounces. That's a lot of weight to be carrying around for only two shots and a not-especially-fast reload.

I guess it beats carrying nothing at all, but there would seem to be plenty of better options.


"Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at its testing point"--- C.S. Lewis

"There are some ideas so foolish, that only an intellectual could believe them"--- George Orwell

Slow Is Smooth, Smooth Is Fast
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Chris Christian
Advanced Member

USA
3642 Posts

Posted - November 15 2018 :  2:30:01 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by LittleBill

Those Bond derringers weigh from 18.5 to 23.5 ounces. That's a lot of weight to be carrying around for only two shots and a not-especially-fast reload.

I guess it beats carrying nothing at all, but there would seem to be plenty of better options.





Yeah. And cheaper, and more effective.

Chris Christian
There are those who make things happen. There are those who watch things happen. There are those who wonder What The Heck happened! Pick one.
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revjen45
Advanced Member

2337 Posts

Posted - November 15 2018 :  4:10:57 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
May I suggest arthritic hands as an acceptable beg-off in this circumstance?

Better to perish in the struggle for freedom than live to see defeat.
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Chris Christian
Advanced Member

USA
3642 Posts

Posted - November 15 2018 :  4:45:02 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by revjen45

May I suggest arthritic hands as an acceptable beg-off in this circumstance?



If those arthritic hands prevent DA snubby use, but allow cocking a Bond, then YES... it would certainly be an "acceptable beg-off". As Jim so accurately, and succinctly, says, "We all have to seek our own salvation."

If that is yours... by all means embrace it.

Chris Christian
There are those who make things happen. There are those who watch things happen. There are those who wonder What The Heck happened! Pick one.
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LittleBill
Advanced Member

5558 Posts

Posted - November 15 2018 :  6:46:58 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
And if you can cock the derringer— perhaps with your support hand?— then you could just as easily cock a J-frame the same way. Hard to see any advantage to the derringer; even for those with compromised hand strength.


"Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at its testing point"--- C.S. Lewis

"There are some ideas so foolish, that only an intellectual could believe them"--- George Orwell

Slow Is Smooth, Smooth Is Fast

Edited by - LittleBill on November 15 2018 6:53:38 PM
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LittleBill
Advanced Member

5558 Posts

Posted - November 15 2018 :  6:52:34 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
An 8-shot S&W 317 Airlite .22LR or 7-shot 351 PD .22 Mag revolver are other possibilities if hand strength is an issue. Both weigh around 11-12 oz.

"Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at its testing point"--- C.S. Lewis

"There are some ideas so foolish, that only an intellectual could believe them"--- George Orwell

Slow Is Smooth, Smooth Is Fast
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Evan
Administrator

34559 Posts

Posted - November 15 2018 :  7:04:39 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Derringers? Sell them a Smith 442

"The greatest thing a Father can do for his children is to love their Mother."

Harold B. Lee

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gw
Advanced Member

4784 Posts

Posted - November 15 2018 :  7:06:54 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Ed Lovette said something like, " the 5 shot snub nose is the new derringer", referring to tactics I suppose.....

I have a friend with Parkinson's, he's been assaulted in his own apartment.

unable to run, he decided of the guns he owns, the only one he can still handle is a tip up barrel Beretta .25

I loaned him the one I had as a second.

to each his own

"Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not..."
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Badge
Advanced Member

USA
1712 Posts

Posted - November 16 2018 :  5:11:50 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I really feel one has to Taylor their defensive handguns to their needs and limitations,......... in a desperate situation I'd gladly have that Beretta .25 in lieu of no weapon.

MSS
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oldmuleskinner
Senior Member

907 Posts

Posted - November 17 2018 :  02:16:33 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Back in the mid 70's I carried a 6" Combat Magnum as my primary on-duty weapon, with a stainless M-60 in my jacket pocket. Graveyard shifts in the Puget Sound area were chilly enough, even during the summer, that they were usually more comfortable while wearing a jacket. A J-frame in my right hand and a Kel-Light in my left made traffic stops feel a little more comfortable and secure. I also carried either a .25 acp or a .38 derringer in my back pocket as a last ditch back-up to my back-up. The derringer was loaded with hollow base wadcutters handloaded backwards. They didn't group well, but at bad-breath distance, grouping would have been more than adequate. Back at that time, I felt comfortable with just the M-60 in my waistband when I was off-shift. It wasn't until I came to know this website that I began to carry at least 2 guns, and often 3.

I can see why the Bond derringer has some appeal to uninformed shooters...probably due to the old movies where the gunfighters/poker players carried one in their waistband. IMHO, the Bond derringer is a gimmick...and that is the same way I feel about the .45LC/.410 revolvers using .410 buckshot loads for SD. A derringer as a primary is just plain dumb. At least that is my 2 cents.

Each of us is an innkeeper, and we decide if there is room for Jesus.
Neal A. Maxwell
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jle3030
Advanced Member

USA
5527 Posts

Posted - November 17 2018 :  08:57:22 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I could see myself carrying a Bond .45/410 in the woods as snake insurance...If I could see myself not packing a more capable all round pistol...Which I can't.

By all accounts, Bond Arms turns out a quality product with a commensurately high price tag. As an American gun company I wish them well. But I just don't have a niche for the gun to fit into.

Jeff

jle3030
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Ace
Advanced Member

USA
5663 Posts

Posted - November 17 2018 :  09:00:53 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Once I started thinking about the issue, I never understood our (yes, I did it too) propensity to tend towards lesser calibers for BUGs. Like 'I've used up all my .45 ammo, and he didn't fall down, so now I'll pull out my 9mm BUG; drat, he soaked all those up, too, so now for my .38 5-shooter; well, sonofagun, he's still going, so out comes my last-ditch 2-shooter in .22Magnum (or LR, whichever); well, now I guess it's time for a pocket knife. If I don't make it, take care of Betsy and the kids.'

We have a cab driver in town who carries one--one--of the tiniest NAA .22LR revawvers in his shirt pocket, in case somebody tries to rob him. I commented that causing a ringing in the bad guy's ears might deter him, but probably not. He wasn't amused. Ace

Give me $1 every time a Liberal lies, I'll give you $5 every time one tells the truth; I'll end up a wealthy man, you'll end up broke.
If pro-gunners are as murderous as anti-gunners claim, why are there so many anti-gunners still running their mouths?

Edited by - Ace on November 17 2018 09:02:01 AM
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jle3030
Advanced Member

USA
5527 Posts

Posted - November 17 2018 :  09:43:59 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ace

We have a cab driver in town who carries one--one--of the tiniest NAA .22LR revawvers in his shirt pocket, in case somebody tries to rob him. I commented that causing a ringing in the bad guy's ears might deter him, but probably not. He wasn't amused. Ace

When ignorant people make up their minds about something it's awfully hard to change their opinions.

Jeff

jle3030
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LittleBill
Advanced Member

5558 Posts

Posted - November 17 2018 :  09:56:37 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
“As an American, I cherish all my rights... But my right to remain ignorant is the one I make the most use of on a daily basis...”


"Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at its testing point"--- C.S. Lewis

"There are some ideas so foolish, that only an intellectual could believe them"--- George Orwell

Slow Is Smooth, Smooth Is Fast

Edited by - LittleBill on November 17 2018 09:56:54 AM
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LittleBill
Advanced Member

5558 Posts

Posted - November 17 2018 :  10:10:20 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I’m having the same conversation with my brother: trying to convince him that his Seecamp .32– while convenient to carry— does not suffice as a primary weapon.

I’ve given him a 9mm P229, and a Galco Combat Master to carry it in, and my sage advice about dressing around the gun... we’ll see if any of it takes...


"Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at its testing point"--- C.S. Lewis

"There are some ideas so foolish, that only an intellectual could believe them"--- George Orwell

Slow Is Smooth, Smooth Is Fast
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Pop Pop
Advanced Member

USA
1126 Posts

Posted - November 17 2018 :  10:35:55 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
If I knew I was going to a battle, I wouldn't depend on any handgun. That said, there is a lot of comfort in carrying a pistol or revolver in a substantial caliber. My own preference is 357 mag, loaded with DPX, because of convenience and health reasons. I can shoot it well so I see no reason to go downward, although I have been wearing an IWB 9MM MP 2.0 lately. My primary is the Magnum, so Ace's analysis applies to me.

Pop Pop
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Chris Christian
Advanced Member

USA
3642 Posts

Posted - November 17 2018 :  3:51:45 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by jle3030

I could see myself carrying a Bond .45/410 in the woods as snake insurance...If I could see myself not packing a more capable all round pistol...Which I can't.

By all accounts, Bond Arms turns out a quality product with a commensurately high price tag. As an American gun company I wish them well. But I just don't have a niche for the gun to fit into.

Jeff




Jeff, living in Florida, with a decade or so of being a hunting & fishing guide. I can say with certainty that a Speer .38 shot capsule load will terminate a snake (other than a 15 foot python) out to about 10-12 feet. The .44 loads will shred 'em at 20 feet. I have expended a bunch or those loads, much to the chagrin of Eastern Diamond backs, cottonmouths, and the occasional Coral Snake.

But, if I'm 12 feet away from them I'm not too worried to start with.

But I did usually carried a 2.5-inch M66, with the first two rounds shot and the next four 125 .357 JHP. Even a .38 snubby stuffed with Speer shot loads beats - IMHO- a two shot derringer that serves little other purpose and costs far more than the snubby, and makes a poor tool for much else.
Just MHO. But, I have whacked a pile o' snakes with shot loads

Chris Christian
There are those who make things happen. There are those who watch things happen. There are those who wonder What The Heck happened! Pick one.

Edited by - Chris Christian on November 17 2018 3:57:04 PM
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Frogfoot
Senior Member

USA
865 Posts

Posted - November 18 2018 :  04:00:07 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I've got an Intercontinental Arms Maverick derringer in .45 Colt and over the years, I've handloaded light and (relatively) fast to slow and heavy bullet loads and two foot groups at close range has been the norm. I've also made up some #12 shot loads that will bounce off of a piece of plywood at 7 yards (learned the hard way) and pepper your face. It certainly looks intimidating, but it's not easy to shoot well and there are so many better choices out there for a carry gun, that a derringer really doesn't make sense unless it's literally the only gun you own and you can't sell or trade it off for something better. In regards to trying to convince people to carry something more effective, a friend of mine and I were talking to another friend who actually smirked and gave us one raised eyebrow when we suggested he carry something better than a Jennings .22 pistol.

We make a living by what we get, we make a life by what we give. - Sir Winston Churchill
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Ace
Advanced Member

USA
5663 Posts

Posted - November 18 2018 :  09:47:17 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I don't allow Jennings, Davis, Lorcin, or Jimenez in my Concealed classes. If somebody shows up with one, I charge them a $10 ammo fee and let them use my gun to qualify.
But I do try to be diplomatic when I explain that their guns are junk. Ace

Give me $1 every time a Liberal lies, I'll give you $5 every time one tells the truth; I'll end up a wealthy man, you'll end up broke.
If pro-gunners are as murderous as anti-gunners claim, why are there so many anti-gunners still running their mouths?
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LittleBill
Advanced Member

5558 Posts

Posted - November 18 2018 :  1:54:30 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Good for you!

While I’m sure it’s awkward, you’re doing them a big— perhaps even lifesaving big— favor: by forcing them to at least consider the wisdom of their choice.


"Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at its testing point"--- C.S. Lewis

"There are some ideas so foolish, that only an intellectual could believe them"--- George Orwell

Slow Is Smooth, Smooth Is Fast
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Ten Driver
Advanced Member

1949 Posts

Posted - November 23 2018 :  3:02:41 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ace

I don't allow Jennings, Davis, Lorcin, or Jimenez in my Concealed classes. If somebody shows up with one, I charge them a $10 ammo fee and let them use my gun to qualify.
But I do try to be diplomatic when I explain that their guns are junk. Ace



Ace, I'm surprised you're still seeing those pop up. I figured most were either broken and buried in the dump, or in police evidence lockers by now.
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