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 Trigger stages and the New York Triggers
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fsilber
Senior Member

USA
526 Posts

Posted - October 24 2018 :  10:50:03 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Different components contribute to trigger weight in different ways, and therefore affect different parts of the trigger pull. In a revolver, a stiffer hammer/striker spring will increase the weight of the trigger until the hammer release, but not during the after travel. If there is any pre-travel take-up, the stiffer hammer spring will not increase the weight of the pre-travel take-up weight, either.

A stiffer trigger return spring will increase the resistance of the trigger throughout its motion, from beginning to end -- even during any after-travel after the shot breaks.

You can increase the pull weight by changing the sear's geometry. That would increase stacking, but would not much affect the trigger pull much before the release, and not at all after the release.

I've read that the Glock 3.5 connector changes the trigger geometry to reduce stacking -- to decrease the trigger resistance at the break, but to increase it somewhat before the break (making the trigger a bit creepier, or more revolver-like).

What are the characteristics of the increase in pull weight provided by the New York Trigger and New York Trigger Plus?

Please don't tell me they increase the weight of the trigger pull; I know that -- I'm not stupid. My question is about which parts of the trigger motion experience this increase in stiffness -- which which parts do not see an increase in resistance?

Do they also increase the trigger resistance after the shot breaks, like a stiffer trigger return spring? Or do they only increase the trigger resistance before the shot breaks -- like a stiffer hammer spring?

And do they affect the grittiness of the trigger pull?

Edited by - fsilber on October 24 2018 10:50:49 PM

jle3030
Advanced Member

USA
5324 Posts

Posted - October 25 2018 :  10:09:18 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Individual perception may vary, but here's how it feels to me.

The NY-1 trigger does increase the weight of the slack take-up before the break. That's a very good thing IMO. I always thought the original factory setup was way too light; being borderline imperceptible if the shooter is under stress and tending to ride the trigger before needing to shoot. With the factory setup, you can easily arrive at the equivalent of a careless or nervous shooter riding what is now essentially a 5.5# SA trigger. Think 1911 pistol with a long limp take-up and no safety... And people wonder where all the Glock ND's come from.

Adding to the safety factor for the inept, the NY-1 trigger release weight goes up to roughly 8#. For a revolver's long DA pull, most of us would consider that weight to be marvelous. With my Gen2 G19, I get a perceptible "warning" take-up, followed by a somewhat creepy 8# brick wall. At the instant the shot breaks, I get roughly 0.1" of sudden overtravel before hitting the final brick wall at the end of the stroke. That bothers my accuracy a fair amount.

I never could train around those two brick walls on the uncorrected NY-1 trigger break. I can only imagine how it must be on the 12# version. OTOH, I had had two of the little factory coiled trigger springs break off their little end loops, rendering the gun inoperative with no advance warning. My daughter had the same thing happen with her duty G17. She had been carying a dead gun on duty. For how long??!! So I really wanted to like the reputedly unbreakable NY-1. After having the NY-1 in and out of the gun a few times, trying to make it shoot for me, I finally ordered the "minus" (3.5 or 4.5# connector, depending on whose ad you read) and reached a happy compromise. I can't say the G19's trigger is marvellous, but I shoot this setup just as well as I do the stock factory setup. I don't have to worry about trigger spring breakage and I find the slightly stiffer initial take-up to be reassuring, while not affecting accuracy in the least.

As an aside, while dithering with the factory vs. NY-1 spring issue, I think I solved the breaking coil spring problem. I took a medium, then a fine abrasive dental polishing point and rounded the edges of the "eyelet" holes where the end loops of the trigger springs attach. The last coil spring was doing fine after a couple thousand rounds before I finally ended the suspense with the NY-1/3.5# connector solution.

Hope this helps.

Jeff



jle3030

Edited by - jle3030 on October 25 2018 10:30:19 AM
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Jim Higginbotham
Moderator

USA
9722 Posts

Posted - October 25 2018 :  10:46:10 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Jeff,

I've found the same thing. Except for one of my Glocks the best trigger was set up for me by someone from the factory; it is the "-" connector and a NY-1 spring.

It breaks at about 4 to 4.5 lbs and feels "crisp".

But my best trigger is with a Ghost Rocket connector with the over-travel stop. I also installed a stiffer spring (just not the NY spring).

That one breaks at around 3 lbs but it also has a Cominolli thumb safety - I would not carry one that light without a mechanical safety.

Even then I don't carry the gun other than in a hard plastic holster in a bag in a vehicle.

Jim H.

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gw
Advanced Member

4469 Posts

Posted - October 25 2018 :  2:52:38 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I put NY1 springs in all my Glocks due to a flawed design in the original setup

trigger springs break, that's why Glock was asked to redesign the trigger assembly in the Gen 5, it improves reliabilty.

so what the NY1 does to trigger pull it does, it's a better design

I do like the minus connector and NY1, mostly because the trigger is lighter without stacking

but folks that say they feel one Glock trigger feels nicer than another are better than me, to me all Glock triggers feel the same.

that's why I put the NY1 spring in all, they all are alike, I learn one and they stay that way, I don't change.

now, I haven't got time in with a Gen 5, that may be another deal...

"Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not..."

Edited by - gw on October 25 2018 3:01:39 PM
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Jim Higginbotham
Moderator

USA
9722 Posts

Posted - October 26 2018 :  12:50:28 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Correct GW. I had one of the little coils break on one of mine and have replaced several for friends.

"perfection" they ain't

Oddly enough our State Police, when they went to the G-35 ordered them with a "-" connector and a NY-1 spring and had the extended slide stop and mag release changed to the standard size on the G-22.

Not a bad choice actually, but they have already dumped them in favor a 9mm - which I think is a poor swap.

Jim H.

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gw
Advanced Member

4469 Posts

Posted - October 26 2018 :  3:28:41 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Jim Higginbotham

Correct GW. I had one of the little coils break on one of mine and have replaced several for friends.

"perfection" they ain't

Oddly enough our State Police, when they went to the G-35 ordered them with a "-" connector and a NY-1 spring and had the extended slide stop and mag release changed to the standard size on the G-22.

Not a bad choice actually, but they have already dumped them in favor a 9mm - which I think is a poor swap.

Jim H.



I set a G34 the same way.

I don't use the slide stop release on Glocks, the long mag release is for range guns.

I added the NY1 spring to increase the trigger pull and improve reliability, the minus connector is too light for a carry gun.

I do like that combination but it's a different feel than my others Glocks.

as far as that setup feeling like a da revolver, transitioning from a DA S&W to a Glock throws me a loop on the range.

I don't see any similarity, which is a down side to me.

"Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not..."
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Jim Higginbotham
Moderator

USA
9722 Posts

Posted - October 27 2018 :  08:45:28 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
same here on all those points GW

Jim

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Russ Larges
Moderator

USA
2344 Posts

Posted - October 27 2018 :  7:40:07 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I have had one of those little springs break on my G19 but I have at least 10K rounds through it and I don't think that is too bad. I use both an extended mag release and slide release and have no problems in the (I think) 15 years I have been shooting it. Maybe I am just lucky.
Russ

The pistol, learn it well, carry it allways. Jeff Cooper
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jle3030
Advanced Member

USA
5324 Posts

Posted - October 28 2018 :  6:44:25 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
People love to hate on Glock triggers. A cottage industry has evolved attempting to make the Glock trigger into something Gaston Glock probably never meant for it to be. After all, the guy had never designed a gun before. His intention was to design a rugged pistol the Austrian army could take to war. A target grade trigger was probably never on his checklist.

Thousands and thousands of organizations and private individuals have chosen Glocks as their trusted "go to" sidearms. The reasons? First would be the appeal of the overall package. Second would be the simple fact that most shooters aren't sophisticated enough to be bothered by the Glock's shortcomings in the trigger department. Third: it's not all that difficult to learn and adapt to the idiosyncracies of a particular gun's handling characteristics. At least within the standards that most organizations and individuals find acceptable.

The G19 has been my primary carry gun for 25 years, due to the totality of its characteristics as they apply to the designated task. Is it my favorite gun? No. Most accurate? No. Best trigger? Definitely not. But it checks the most boxes in my defensive handgun checklist and the trigger, if not optimal, can be learned and is perfectly usable for its intended purpose.

YMMV, of course.

Jeff

jle3030
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