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Pop Pop
Senior Member

USA
764 Posts

Posted - February 04 2018 :  4:20:16 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I carried my new M P 2.0 to church, as my primary, and moved my 7 shot Taurus revolver to my weak side pocket. I used the Aker Belt Slide Holster and covered it with my sports coat. Rode fine and had no problems. Going to try the same rig under a light long tail jacket for tonight.

I am still more comfortable with the 7 shot revolver, for now, but want the extra rounds(15) on board. Getting more accustomed to the 2.0 as it does not have the weight nor the recoil the 357 revolver has. Have had it out on several occasions and plan another this week. Wish the ground would dry so I could get in some serious movement. Just too wet as the ground has been frozen and we had over 1 inch of rain last evening.

It is hard for an old dog to learn new tricks. I have always loved revolvers. Need to check out the new 8 shooters, but so far they all have been a little too large for concealed carry in church.

Our church leadership has agreed to put signage on the back entrance doors, and it is already there, to alert late comers to go the main entrances to enter the building. Several have expressed agreement with their decision and want them doors locked to control someone entering in our classroom wing doors, which are a good 100 yards from the main entrances and auditorium. Our ushers now stays in the main lobby, even during Bible Classes, after locking the back doors. Now everyone who enters, after classes start, will be profiled by our ushers. I think that is a good thing.

Our attendance is way up and we has several visitors today. We meet/greet every visitor, who enters the building, and talks with them. I believe that is a good thing, and it gives one a feel of the disposition of folks.

Edited to add; We have has a man circle our parking lot almost every Sunday morning, after services start, for the past 6 weeks. I seen him circle 2 times this morning. We have a policy not to confront anyone, after entrance doors are locked, in the parking lot, but just to be a good witness. Don't know what this guy is doing, as he does not drop anyone off. Kinda bugs us, but we are keeping an eye out for the car. It is a fairly new auto. Puzzling!

If it continues we may need to get Police to confront and intercept him to find out what he is doing. What do you guys think? Any suggestions?

Pop Pop

Edited by - Pop Pop on February 04 2018 4:37:07 PM

ASCTLC
Senior Member

647 Posts

Posted - February 04 2018 :  4:41:44 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'd say "if it continues" started at least 2 weeks ago. I'd make a call to the police even if it is only to make them aware but I'll bet they send someone after what you describe.
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LfiGrad
New Member

USA
72 Posts

Posted - February 04 2018 :  5:04:02 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Only "the Shadow" knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men.

But while evaluating all possibilities, don't overlook the possibility of a guy who, having been away from services for many years, is just trying to build up the courage to come back, and walk in the front door among strangers. Its not always easy to do.


If my only choice was a loaded .25 or an unloaded .45, I would choose the empty .45. They both have the same stopping power, but the empty 1911 looks a lot more convincing and makes a better club.
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gw
Advanced Member

4088 Posts

Posted - February 04 2018 :  8:51:12 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I don't buy that for a minute

confront that guy as soon as possible

if you haven't gone on record with the cops, you are behind the curve

"Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not..."
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Ace
Advanced Member

USA
5115 Posts

Posted - February 04 2018 :  9:08:24 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Is it possible to get a picture of the car, especially the tag? Or at least write it down, and yes, call the police and ask them to be in the area and check it out if/when he does it again. Lots of possibilities, only one of which I can come up with that is harmless--the same one LFIGrad mentioned. Safe instead of sorry isn't a bad protocol. Ace

Give me $1 every time a Liberal lies, I'll give you $5 every time one tells the truth; I'll end up a wealthy man, you'll end up broke.
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garrettwc
Advanced Member

1021 Posts

Posted - February 05 2018 :  7:14:02 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Agree with what's been said so far. Could be a prodigal son trying to come home, but just as likely someone up to no good. Time to make a suspicious person report and alert your ushers/security to keep an eye out.

"Let us speak courteously, deal fairly, and keep ourselves armed and ready."
Teddy Roosevelt - San Francisco, CA, May 13, 1903
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Pop Pop
Senior Member

USA
764 Posts

Posted - February 06 2018 :  07:22:08 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
If he shows up again, this coming Sunday, we are going to attempt to get a picture of his plate. Leaders don't want to see unfriendly, in case it was someone trying to get courage to come in, to which I explained the guy has been doing this for a while now, and twice a weeks ago. They don't want us to seem overly aggressive so we will keep an eye out for the car. Thanks for the advice, and I agree with you guys, but we will follow their direction, for now.

Pop Pop
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gw
Advanced Member

4088 Posts

Posted - February 06 2018 :  08:38:41 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
is there anyone in the congregation going through a bad divorce or seperation

is someone stalking a member?

these are personel things, but very dangerous for your members

you've already had violent attacks on chuches in your area

hopefully the police will know about restraining orders and any other trouble, contact them

when it comes to legal action, the first one to the cops win

"Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not..."

Edited by - gw on February 06 2018 08:39:34 AM
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Pop Pop
Senior Member

USA
764 Posts

Posted - February 06 2018 :  11:42:12 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
G W, I am aware of 2 divorces, not messy(threats) as far as we know, and as for stalkers we are unaware. Our leadership has allowed us to lock all entrance doors as soon as classes start, and we keep volunteer ushers in the hallways all the time. That was the reason given for not taking action, on this guy, now. They do not want us to approach anyone outside after we are locked in. That is our group policy and they want us to adhere to that policy. They say this guy poses no threat to anyone inside so restraint is in order, in their minds. We are to be good wittiness's and do noting to provoke anyone.

If this guy comes again Sunday, then we will talk again. The police want a tag number and description of the car, if possible. We are going to try to get a picture of his tag and car. We are in a holding and defensive state at this time. I will say we are concerned about this and all our volunteers are on the lookout for this red Toyota car. So far, he never stops and just circles the parking lot. I was on watch last week and he did it 2 times shortly after our 10 AM worship started. He has never been spotted at the evening services.

Edited to add; It was an early to middle aged white guy, well dressed and in a late modeled car.

Pop Pop

Edited by - Pop Pop on February 06 2018 11:46:03 AM
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jle3030
Advanced Member

USA
5050 Posts

Posted - February 06 2018 :  3:26:40 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Didn't the Texas church shooting begin in the parking lot? Or was that the near Nashville incident? At what point does the guy become enough of a threat to at least ID him? It might be worthwhile to reach out to other nearby churches to see if he's also cruising any of their parking lots.

The guy's behavior is, at a minimum, odd. Oddness usually has a motivation. It could be life saving to know in advance what this person might be about.

Jeff

jle3030
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WR Moore
Senior Member

USA
874 Posts

Posted - February 06 2018 :  3:34:00 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Could be any number of reasons he's cruising the lot. Considering breaking into cars while everyone's singing hymns is one. Working up courage to either join the congregation or decimating it are others.
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Chris Christian
Advanced Member

USA
3030 Posts

Posted - February 06 2018 :  3:56:09 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
POP Pop, you do seem to have some legitimate concerns. My humble suggestion would be to not to confront him directly... but to covertly get a photo of his vehicle, licenses tag, and hopefully him.

Then go to local LE, explain what has occurred, and ask if they might be able to provide a 'police presence during that time period.

A marked unit might change things.... in a number of ways. But, confronting him directly while he is 'innocently' driving on public streets is not, IMHO, a good idea. YOU could be painted as the aggressor in whatever may happen after that. Just my thoughts.

Chris Christian
There are those who make things happen. There are those who watch things happen. There are those who wonder What The Heck happened! Pick one.
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Sigger
New Member

USA
77 Posts

Posted - February 06 2018 :  4:33:10 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi,
For what its worth, from a church point of view. I don't see the problem with asking him if there is anything you can do for him. We have a lady who regularly walks around our church for exercise. We asked her, she explained and we all laughed.
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Ace
Advanced Member

USA
5115 Posts

Posted - February 06 2018 :  5:00:08 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'd have to agree on not 'confronting' him outside the building. If this was a passer-by, on foot, who was lingering near the building, maybe a friendly 'can I help you' would be warranted. Somebody driving around the lot as if looking for a parking space, maybe the same. This guy doesn't seem to be doing that, based on Pop's description. Sad to say, these days I'd look at him suspiciously, get the photos if possible, let the police handle it. Too many negative possibilities otherwise.
I might have a different thought on approaching him outside, if it were to be off-duty cops--more than one--doing the approach. Cautiously, courteously, and more than one. Cops aren't any 'better' than 'civilians', but we/they do tend to be better prepared and trained for 'contingencies'. Ace

Give me $1 every time a Liberal lies, I'll give you $5 every time one tells the truth; I'll end up a wealthy man, you'll end up broke.
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Chris Christian
Advanced Member

USA
3030 Posts

Posted - February 06 2018 :  5:29:23 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ace

I'd have to agree on not 'confronting' him outside the building. If this was a passer-by, on foot, who was lingering near the building, maybe a friendly 'can I help you' would be warranted. Somebody driving around the lot as if looking for a parking space, maybe the same. This guy doesn't seem to be doing that, based on Pop's description. Sad to say, these days I'd look at him suspiciously, get the photos if possible, let the police handle it. Too many negative possibilities otherwise.
I might have a different thought on approaching him outside, if it were to be off-duty cops--more than one--doing the approach. Cautiously, courteously, and more than one. Cops aren't any 'better' than 'civilians', but we/they do tend to be better prepared and trained for 'contingencies'. Ace



Yes! They also have the advantage of being sworn officers... who are never, technically, "off-duty". If the suspect blows up... better to have it at cops than a church member who just 'wanted to get involved". The "who was the aggressor" thing goes out the window.

Pop Pop... if you can swing it, Ace's suggestion is a darned good one.

Chris Christian
There are those who make things happen. There are those who watch things happen. There are those who wonder What The Heck happened! Pick one.
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Pop Pop
Senior Member

USA
764 Posts

Posted - February 06 2018 :  8:18:39 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks for the advice guys.

Pop Pop
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Pop Pop
Senior Member

USA
764 Posts

Posted - February 12 2018 :  10:20:39 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Red car did not show up at either service yesterday. That is a good thing.

Pop Pop
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gw
Advanced Member

4088 Posts

Posted - February 12 2018 :  10:28:22 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
maybe he changed cars

"Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not..."
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ASCTLC
Senior Member

647 Posts

Posted - February 12 2018 :  11:04:20 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
It's also possible he now has his plan figured out.

Not to sound all pessimistic but the occurrences leading up to this should have already set a plan in motion to find out what's going on (asking LE to help determine that motive for cruising the lot).
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