StoppingPower.net Forums
Home
Forums
Commentary
H&S
About
StoppingPower.net Forums

StoppingPower.net Forums - 7 shooters
StoppingPower.net Forums
StoppingPower.net Forums
Forums Home | Profile | Register | Active Topics | Members | Search | FAQ | Invite a friend
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

 All Forums
 Shooting
 Wheelgun Chronicles
 7 shooters
 New Topic  Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Author  Topic Next Topic  

arty
Junior Member

105 Posts

Posted - January 20 2018 :  7:00:49 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
How reliable and durable are these new, high capacity revolvers. Smith has made a 7 shooter for some time, and Ruger just came out with a 7 shot GP100. Do these guns go 10,000 rounds before developing problems? Are they as strong as traditional 5 or 6 guns?

colt357
Junior Member

189 Posts

Posted - January 20 2018 :  8:00:30 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
In Smith & Wesson guns, the 7 shooters are built on their L-frame series. Same frame and workings shared between 6 & 7 shot versions with the exception of the cylinders and a couple of internals to accommodate the different timing.

The timing notches in the cylinders are typically the weakest spot in a modern S&W 6 shot revolver because the locking prong that fits into those notches is located in the center of the frame at the bottom of the cylinder window. This puts the timing notches directly over each chamber in a 6 shot revolver, in the thinnest part of the cylinder wall. In a 7 shot S&W revolver (or 5 shot, or any odd number of chambers) the timing notches are cut between the chambers in the meatiest part of the cylinder.

So I guess that I would say that, at least for Smith & Wesson revolvers, the 7 shot L-frame is somewhat stronger than the 6 shot versions. However, since both are L-frames, I believe one would need to work really hard to blow up either one, or even beat up either one.

I can't speak to other manufacturers revolvers, though I have never seen any Ruger revolver that wasn't build like a tank.

Regards,

Colt
Go to Top of Page

Pop Pop
Senior Member

USA
764 Posts

Posted - January 21 2018 :  08:03:37 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I have 3 Taurus mdl 617 7 shot revolvers. Two are 357/38spl and one is an ultralight 38Spl only. All are on a mid sized frame and but smaller than the Mdl 686 SW or GP 100 Ruger. I would say around a K frame size. I have approx. 6000 rounds through the one I have carried for the past 5 years and about 500 through the other two. Most of that has been WWB 38 spl ammo but the one I have carried has had 1000 rounds of full power 357 Mag. I have had no problems with any of them. I pocket carry them in a modified Desantis Nemisis pocket holster.

I have looked at the Smith Wesson 7 shooters but my Taurus mdl 617s are smaller and I can pocket carry it in jeans with larger pockets(Carhart carpenter jeans). I will say it is a crap shoot with a Taurus, but all of mine have been 100% and are good quality. Some of the earlry models of these guns had problems binding when they got hot. Taurus put a very thin shim between the frame and calendar to fix those early models. I like the extra 2 rounds in a 7 shot revolver.

Pop Pop
Go to Top of Page

revjen45
Advanced Member

2259 Posts

Posted - January 21 2018 :  11:09:01 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
For a rugged, dependable 7-shooter may I present the 1895 Nagant?
And they're cheaper than a S&W.

Better to perish in the struggle for freedom than live to see defeat.

Edited by - revjen45 on January 21 2018 11:11:02 AM
Go to Top of Page

arty
Junior Member

105 Posts

Posted - January 21 2018 :  7:22:51 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I was curious about what to expect from the Smith & Wessons, Rugers (new models), or perhaps other medium frame revolvers.
Go to Top of Page

johns961
New Member

USA
54 Posts

Posted - January 22 2018 :  5:17:12 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I have a 686 plus. Had problems with the cylinder not rotating correctly. Sent it back. The replaced all the mim parts. Been good ever since. Smith took care of it.
Go to Top of Page

LittleBill
Advanced Member

4575 Posts

Posted - January 22 2018 :  10:10:21 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Just curious: did they replace the mim parts with other mim parts?


"Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at its testing point"--- C.S. Lewis

"There are some ideas so foolish, that only an intellectual could believe them"--- George Orwell

Slow Is Smooth, Smooth Is Fast

Edited by - LittleBill on January 22 2018 10:10:47 PM
Go to Top of Page

arty
Junior Member

105 Posts

Posted - January 24 2018 :  2:32:40 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Revjen45
I knew about the Russian 7.62R rifle, but didn't know about the revolver. I am interested in 357 caliber revolvers. I have read of some problems with many new revolvers, but wanted to know if people were happy with newer 7 shooters. I am not enthusiastic about the idea of a lock built into a gun on Smiths.
Go to Top of Page

Chris Christian
Advanced Member

USA
3030 Posts

Posted - January 24 2018 :  3:17:28 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Arty, I wouldn't worry too much about Ruger revolvers. I've shot several GP-100s (6 shot) in competition for over a decade, and they don't fail.

I have no experience with their new 7-shot models.... but I do have a 8-shot Redhawk (N-frame size) in for T&E and while heavy, it's a very solid piece of equipment.

Ruger revolvers are built like tanks. And, if there is a problem with a 'lemon' leaving the factory, their customer service is IMHO the best in the industry.

Just my thoughts.

Chris Christian
There are those who make things happen. There are those who watch things happen. There are those who wonder What The Heck happened! Pick one.
Go to Top of Page

Dov
Advanced Member

USA
2647 Posts

Posted - January 24 2018 :  6:35:03 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I had 386 Night Guard (7 shot) though didnít put many rounds through it, never had any problems except the fixed sights were setup to cover what you hit instead of 6 oíclock hold Iím used to with handguns.


I really like the 8 shot N frames, triggers on those just seem better than any 6 or 7 shot revolvers to my trigger finger.

Edited by - Dov on January 24 2018 9:25:55 PM
Go to Top of Page

BatteryOaksBilly
Junior Member

USA
158 Posts

Posted - January 24 2018 :  6:52:13 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I agree with Dov about the 8 shot guns.

Billy Bruton..Carry every step..Shoot every day!
Go to Top of Page

Ten Driver
Advanced Member

1736 Posts

Posted - January 28 2018 :  5:15:07 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I shot the new Performance Center 686 in both flavors this past week--a 4" 6-shot and a 5" 7-shot--and they were a mixed bag.

The 7-shot had been fired more and had a smooth action that was nice. The 6-shot had an underwhelming action, that left me disappointed. Considering this was a PC gun, I thought the action should have been much better for the premium involved. Some of the stock Rugers I shot that day were better.

I also shot the 7 and 8 round Ruger guns, and they were good. As mentioned, the actions on these stock guns were better than the 4" effort from S&W PC.

I like the traditional 6-round cylinders best for tradition's sake, but can't argue with those who enjoy the extra capacity. I don't think the additional chambers have as much effect on the quality of the action as I had feared. I think you won't notice a lick of difference between the 6 and the 7/8 round guns--at least nothing that can't be attributed to the normal variation between individual samples.

V/R
Mike
Go to Top of Page

Ten Driver
Advanced Member

1736 Posts

Posted - January 28 2018 :  5:23:32 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Oh, and durability concerns? None for Ruger. The S&Ws, however, are using MIM internals in the action. Most folks won't wear them out, but an enthusiast probably stands a chance of it. I wish S&W was still using forged parts for the trigger, hammer, etc.

Then there's the damned lock hole . . .

I wish Springfield would come back to the light, but they show no sign of it yet. I'm hopeful they'll correct course someday.

Mike
Go to Top of Page

Ten Driver
Advanced Member

1736 Posts

Posted - January 28 2018 :  5:25:40 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Almost forgot . . . the biggest issue with the 7-rounders is speedloader choice. You're pretty much stuck with HKS or Five Star, I think. All of my preferred loaders are based around the 6 shot cylinders, so that's a big limitation to consider.

Mike
Go to Top of Page

revjen45
Advanced Member

2259 Posts

Posted - January 29 2018 :  12:34:02 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Where can one get speed loaders for the 1895 Nagant?

Better to perish in the struggle for freedom than live to see defeat.

Edited by - revjen45 on January 29 2018 12:35:49 AM
Go to Top of Page

Ten Driver
Advanced Member

1736 Posts

Posted - January 29 2018 :  4:02:49 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Ha! You were born with one on the end of each arm!
Go to Top of Page

arty
Junior Member

105 Posts

Posted - January 29 2018 :  4:39:06 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I am really curious about the new Rugers and want to check out their trigger actions. They did a great job with the LCR, and hope they can do better with the new 7 shot revolvers.
Go to Top of Page

Ten Driver
Advanced Member

1736 Posts

Posted - January 29 2018 :  8:55:04 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
They were standard GP100 and Redhawk actions . . . nothing changed in the actions, except for the hand and any other parts required to make the new cylinders time properly.

The LCR trigger, with its cam, is great, but it wasn't used on the new 7&8 shooters.

That's OK. The triggers were pretty good. They'll get even better with use or the attention of a good 'smith.

Mike
Go to Top of Page

fsilber
Senior Member

USA
519 Posts

Posted - February 05 2018 :  9:32:10 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I thought the 6-shot S&W had a better DA trigger than their 7-shot 686+. I expected it to go the other way, because the cylinder didn't have to turn as far with each shot. No, the cylinder turned just as fast relative to the trigger on the 686+; it was simply a _shorter_ trigger. But that meant less motion for pushing back the hammer -- so the mechanical force for that was greater. A shorter, heavier trigger -- it seemed a bit more like a J-Frame trigger.

I guess if they'd wanted a full-length trigger throw to give mechanical advantage over the lesser cylinder rotation they'd have had to re-design a larger number of internal parts.
Go to Top of Page

Jim Higginbotham
Moderator

USA
9501 Posts

Posted - February 09 2018 :  09:59:33 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I realize it is just me, but I'd rather have a 5 shot .44 than an 8 shot .357 for about anything I do with a handgun.

One of those Lipsey 5" .44s keeps calling my name - I try to use ear plugs but it doesn't help

I get the sense that folks keep trying to prepare for Armagedon or the last shoot-em-up flick they have seen.

I do realize that folks who live in a large urban environment tend to think in terms of multiple assailants but, after watching tens of thousands of people shoot, I wonder why they think they will have time to fire 3 shots, let alone 6 or 7, unless the guy or gal (or who knows what these days) are so poor at shooting they miss.

Mind you I know of plenty of cases of people firing a lot of rounds - they were either mediocre (or worse) shots or they were shooting itty bitty bullets.

There are exceptions to every rule of course.


Jim H.

Get the Weaponcraft Journal on Amazon: Print or Kindle!
Go to Top of Page

WR Moore
Senior Member

USA
874 Posts

Posted - February 09 2018 :  7:29:56 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
About those urban shootouts.....several years ago there was a utube posted security camera video of a shootout that started in a pool hall-across a pool table. Both sides emptied high cap mags and there were no injuries. Kinda reminded me of footage of a traffic accident in Bagdad. Lot of screaming and arm waving, followed by getting AKs out of trunks and emptying the mags (full auto of course). When the mags were empties, both drivers threw the AKs in the trunk and drove off. Now, we can't count on this, and Jim's right that you need a solid hit/hits fast.

I think some of this might stem from entertainment/competition stages, many of which are unsurvivable in the real world.

About the MIM internals....I worked on a couple of autos with MIM internal parts and frankly, the surface hardness goes much deeper than that on the forged/machined parts. I kinda doubt anyone is gonna wear them out. This doesn't mean that the occasional slightly off part might not exist. BTW, if you go to replace parts and can only find MIM, the hammer/sear in autos have to match. There are design differences. I don't know, but reason that the same is true on revolvers.

Edited by - WR Moore on February 10 2018 10:07:49 AM
Go to Top of Page

gw
Advanced Member

4088 Posts

Posted - February 10 2018 :  10:25:02 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
this has been covered, but there are good MIM parts and bad tool steel parts. S&W uses good MIM parts

they are precision made, and wear well, they do not break like glass. improperly heated treated milled parts can.

Bill Wilson let it slip that his personel 1911 is full of MIM parts, his customers went nuts, they were buying high dollar guns made with MIM components and couldn't tell the difference until they were told......

here's some of what Wilson said at the time

"One other thing I forgot to address. MIM parts. A company that I will not name gave the MIM parts a bad name because they had a bad batch of MIM parts. This was many years ago. Since then remarkable things have happened.

MIM parts are extremely dense and very exact. They are much less prone to wear and breakage than a factory Colt, Spfg. etc. part. This is why we use them in our CQB's, etc. Although not quite as hard as our tool steel parts, they will last a very long time. This is why we can still quarante our total gun, including the MIM parts, for life.

The tool steel parts are actually overkill. The MIM parts last for life (I know of one gun that has over 100,000 rounds thru it and the trigger pull feels the same as it did when new) therefore I guess you could say the tool steel parts lasts for a lifetime and Ĺ."

"Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not..."

Edited by - gw on February 10 2018 10:25:56 AM
Go to Top of Page

Jim Higginbotham
Moderator

USA
9501 Posts

Posted - February 10 2018 :  12:24:05 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The year I left Memphis there was a drug raid.

Nearly all the occupants of the house had been alerted and were long gone but one guy and his girlfriend were unaware an awakened by the entry team.

The dealer fired a shot at the police stacked by the open door from his Beretta '92.

Between him and 3 officers firing they emptied: A Beretta '92, an MP-5, an H&K M1 shotgun and an S&W 9mm (I think a 59 or 659) - by some miracle no one was hit!

Admittedly, this was not a smoothly executed assault, all three officers were all trying to fire through the doorway.

The bad guy wisely surrendered - a fella could get hurt that way.

I'm reminded of the old saying "There is hope in the heart while there is lead in the air."...but I don't subscribe to the technique

Jim


Get the Weaponcraft Journal on Amazon: Print or Kindle!
Go to Top of Page

BatteryOaksBilly
Junior Member

USA
158 Posts

Posted - February 11 2018 :  09:18:11 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I will relate this story to our weekly gathering today on the range. Thanks so much. And people worry about OVER penetration. Should be more concerned about "air balls".

Billy Bruton..Carry every step..Shoot every day!
Go to Top of Page
   Topic Next Topic  
 New Topic  Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Jump To:
StoppingPower.net Forums © 2002-16 StoppingPower.net, Inc. Go To Top Of Page
Thispagewasgeneratedin0.33seconds. Snitz Forums 2000