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Evan
Administrator

34114 Posts

Posted - December 06 2017 :  4:18:11 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Grandson DJW, who after serving as a Mormon Missionary in Bulgaria is now a Marine stationed at LaJune, showed up for Thanksgiving with an AR pistol he assembled himself. It has an "end piece" on that resembled a fixed AR stock and BATF says its legal to use to fire from the shoulder. I was busy doing other stuff on the range but it has started to wear on me. I currently have a Kel Tec Sub2000 carbine folding carbine that takes the same Glock mags as the Glock 22 and 27 I carry daily. I have confidence in CB DPX .40 but I have even greater confidence in CB .223 DPX!

We'll probably do a deal for on at Christmas as he has several AR pistol lowers.

"The greatest thing a Father can do for his children is to love their Mother."

Harold B. Lee

oldmuleskinner
Senior Member

795 Posts

Posted - December 06 2017 :  5:41:23 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I would like to know more about the "end piece" that he has. I have an unfinished 80% lower that I could build into an AR pistol.

A brand name or the name of an outlet that sells them would be great.

Each of us is an innkeeper, and we decide if there is room for Jesus.
Neal A. Maxwell
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silverback
New Member

USA
78 Posts

Posted - December 06 2017 :  8:35:49 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I have one i built with a Sig arm brace fits in my messenger bag great little combo.There are other arm braces out there but for me the Sig works fine from the shoulder.
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Olddog84
Senior Member

USA
598 Posts

Posted - December 07 2017 :  08:04:44 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
If what I have been told is true, this is another example of our ridiculous, over regulatory government, because my nephew bought one of the AK pistols with the arm brace, and he was told that ATF had gone back and forth on his but basically said if you use it on your forearm it is a arm brace and the gun is a pistol but if you put it to your shoulder it is a regulated short barrel rifle and you are in violation of the law. It certainly sounded like the dealer who sold it to him knew what he was talking about so, can anyone else comment? Is this indeed an example of governmental wisdom?
Mike

"Somebody Tries to kill you, you try to kill 'em right back." Malcolm Reynolds
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Ace
Advanced Member

USA
5045 Posts

Posted - December 07 2017 :  09:59:55 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Simply put, yes, this is an example of .gov 'wisdom'.

We've had BATFEces agents doing their gun-shop audit, and get all panty twisted because a customer would use a blue pen to fill in the personal information, and we'd use a black pen for our part. One customer alternated check marks and x's in the boxes, the 'special' agents considered marking that as an illegal sale. Not sure we're dealing with intelligent life forms, as a general rule. Ace

Give me $1 every time a Liberal lies, I'll give you $5 every time one tells the truth; I'll end up a wealthy man, you'll end up broke.
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revjen45
Advanced Member

2234 Posts

Posted - December 07 2017 :  12:36:08 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
If they could do anything useful they wouldn't be BATF Nazis.

Better to perish in the struggle for freedom than live to see defeat.
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silverback
New Member

USA
78 Posts

Posted - December 07 2017 :  3:37:41 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Gentlemen that was the case the ATF was pushed to make a written decision what they have said is if the pistol has a arm brace with no modification to it is a pistol and may be fired from shoulder.Please look it up and read this is just how i read it.I am not a lawyer and would not play one anywhere
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jlwilliams
Junior Member

USA
238 Posts

Posted - December 08 2017 :  07:58:47 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The arm brace is something they have gone back and forth on. What they have said and not waffled about is that you can cheek or shoulder the buffer tube. I haven worked with it enough to be really good with it, but with a little practice I'm getting comfortable enough with an AR pistol. It's no good if you are standing up tall and straight, but if you hunch down (like a boxer "in the clinch") it works fine. Likewise sitting, kneeling and even prone.

I used to think the buffer tube was a drawback to the AR pistol because it wasn't as short as the AK. Now I see it as a huge edge over the AK pistol. Yet another reason it is more capable of hitting at greater distance. It gives you the ability to hold the gun in ways that allow you to hit with it.

All that said about the usefulness of the buffer tube with nothing but a soft wrap on it, I'd like to know more about this end piece on Evan's grandson's pistol. Any chance of a link, or even a searchable name?
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djwarner
Junior Member

USA
234 Posts

Posted - December 08 2017 :  09:34:09 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I realize the buffer tube is an efficient way to store enough energy during recoil to recycle the bolt. But it is not the only way to store energy. While a near optimal design for an automatic long gun, not so much for a pistol. This tickles my engineering brain cells.

Can any of our mavens out there answer a few technical questions about the buffer tube/spring?

Is the travel available sufficient to insure all recoil energy must pass through the spring or does it go solid at some point after storing enough energy to recycle the bolt?

What is the spring rate in the mil spec spring?

How much bolt travel is required to cycle the bolt?

NON NOBIS TANTUM NATI
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Evan
Administrator

34114 Posts

Posted - December 08 2017 :  3:33:21 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Palmetto State Armory-I have several errands before our 6pm Christmas Party. and search AR pistol lowers and they show it mounted.

"The greatest thing a Father can do for his children is to love their Mother."

Harold B. Lee

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jlwilliams
Junior Member

USA
238 Posts

Posted - December 08 2017 :  5:58:50 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Wow. That is quite an arm brace. I bet that would help my feeble arms quite a bit.
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Malcolm
Advanced Member

USA
4008 Posts

Posted - December 08 2017 :  9:33:19 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I have learned that approaching retirement “age”, my arm strength, is getting somewhat “iffy”, and I think an arm brace, could do wonders for me getting outside, and enjoying sport shooting. I am going to seriously look at this new “option”, for those of us nearing emeritus status. I think it’s a brilliant solution, to the aging issues and complaints from arthritis, and related ailments. It looks like, it could be a handy item to have for situations, when a better caliber of handgun is called for as well.

"The measure of a man's character, is how he treats someone who can do nothing for him." (unknown)
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Evan
Administrator

34114 Posts

Posted - December 09 2017 :  09:50:43 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Silverback-what messenger bag are you using and what barrel length is your pistol?

I'm still busy, but it starts with a K and they have a letter from BATF that as long as the "end piece" must be kept to a certain maximum distance from the receiver it is legal to fire from the shoulder.

I've just been having the most serious gut feeling that we're going to be hit, hard and wide!

"The greatest thing a Father can do for his children is to love their Mother."

Harold B. Lee

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BatteryOaksBilly
Junior Member

USA
125 Posts

Posted - December 09 2017 :  10:31:36 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
PSA's brace is wonderful. We have several here and it truly makes my SBRs unnecessary. If you handle one of these things you will be hooked. Our folks have them in 7,8, and 10 inch versions. The 10 1/2 is a 300 BO and is getting hard to live without for me. I have been bitten by the AR Pistol bug since PSA came out with this brace.

Billy Bruton..Carry every step..Shoot every day!
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silverback
New Member

USA
78 Posts

Posted - December 09 2017 :  1:39:28 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Evan:I use two different bags one is a Bike Messenger Bag xlg 15'' deep 26'' long the other i found years ago when Normans was open in saginaw it held a short barrel shot gun when i was working. The pistol has 10.5'' barrel and is chambered in 300 blk and you are correct no mods can be done to brace not even tape or rubber nothing.Hope that helps
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Evan
Administrator

34114 Posts

Posted - December 09 2017 :  1:43:06 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
thanks a lot!

"The greatest thing a Father can do for his children is to love their Mother."

Harold B. Lee

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Evan
Administrator

34114 Posts

Posted - December 09 2017 :  1:57:37 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Shockwave Technologies

"The greatest thing a Father can do for his children is to love their Mother."

Harold B. Lee

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bandaidman
Advanced Member

USA
1309 Posts

Posted - December 10 2017 :  03:07:32 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Evan LaJune isn't the healthiest place around, worked with a LtCol ( mustang) that raised his family there and his wife and two of his kids have developed cancer. They are just now admitting that it could be enviomental. He is LDS with no bad habits and has two different kinds of CA, one from agent orange and the other he thought from being at Lajune. Just saying.

“If for a while the harder you try, the harder it gets, take heart. So it has been with the best people who ever lived.
Jeffery Holland
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gw
Advanced Member

3983 Posts

Posted - December 10 2017 :  03:52:39 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
per the VA current ground water supplies at Camp LaJune are considered safe for consumption.

wells were heavily contaminated with industrial chemicals, these contaminated wells were shut down in '85.

if you trust the Government....

"Veterans’ health care
In accordance with the 2012 Camp Lejeune health care law, VA provides cost-free health care for certain conditions to Veterans who served at least 30 days of active duty at Camp Lejeune from January 1, 1957 and December 31, 1987."

"Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not..."
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