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Russ Larges
Moderator

USA
2311 Posts

Posted - November 26 2017 :  07:59:42 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Well, I found one, a Springfeild millspec in like new condition. I got it with six magazines and a old hunter holster for what I thought was a very good price. It has the cute tiny sights that I can hardly see but since it is to be a range gun they might work for a while. When I got it home I put a dab of white fingernail on the front sight, which really helped, and then built a speed bump with gorilla tape, that stuff is great, as dry firing with a high thumb did not always press the grip safety.
It's kinda cold here and deer season is still open so I wont get to shoot is for abit as my berm is to close to the deer blind.
Russ

The pistol, learn it well, carry it allways. Jeff Cooper

Uncle Mike
Advanced Member

USA
1677 Posts

Posted - November 26 2017 :  11:07:59 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi Russ, congrats on the new pistol. I've found that Springfield grip safety is helped by replacing the sear spring underneath the grip strap. I have also have bent the leafs slightly to give a more positive contact. I much prefer a new Wolff spring, YMMV. How's the trigger? regards, Mike

"The secret of happiness is freedom, and the secret of freedom, courage"...Thucyides

"War is sweet to those who do not know it."...Erasmus
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Russ Larges
Moderator

USA
2311 Posts

Posted - November 26 2017 :  11:54:15 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
[quote]Originally posted by Uncle Mike

Hi Russ, congrats on the new pistol. I've found that Springfield grip safety is helped by replacing the sear spring underneath the grip strap. I have also have bent the leafs slightly to give a more positive contact. I much prefer a new Wolff spring, YMMV. How's the trigger? regards, Mike



I think the trigger is quite good, but I am comparing it to a glock. Hope to shoot it soon.
Russ

The pistol, learn it well, carry it allways. Jeff Cooper
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Chris Christian
Advanced Member

USA
3300 Posts

Posted - November 26 2017 :  1:23:17 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Just about ANY trigger is good when compared to a Glock.

Chris Christian
There are those who make things happen. There are those who watch things happen. There are those who wonder What The Heck happened! Pick one.
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Arvinator
Advanced Member

USA
5356 Posts

Posted - November 26 2017 :  2:21:35 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I have one, wearing it today to the deer woods this afternoon on wife's uncles farm.

Be honest, fair, and always prepared...
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Russ Larges
Moderator

USA
2311 Posts

Posted - November 28 2017 :  6:08:20 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Well I put four mags through it today, four failures to feed with two of the mags, maybe three mags. The only one that worked was one of the factory mags. This was with both factory hard ball and my handloads with 200 gr. semiwadcutters. I will mark each mag to keep track of which ones don't work. On the bright side I hit what I aimed at with all but one round. It sure is different then my Glocks, fun but different.
Russ

The pistol, learn it well, carry it allways. Jeff Cooper
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Uncle Mike
Advanced Member

USA
1677 Posts

Posted - November 28 2017 :  10:04:37 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi Russ, If one magazine worked then you know what the problem is, regards, Mike

"The secret of happiness is freedom, and the secret of freedom, courage"...Thucyides

"War is sweet to those who do not know it."...Erasmus

Edited by - Uncle Mike on January 08 2018 09:18:42 AM
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Arvinator
Advanced Member

USA
5356 Posts

Posted - November 29 2017 :  06:52:35 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Russ, I personally like Wilson's mags first, then Chip McCormicks. I use factory ball for break in, then pick 100-150 rds of jhp that run flawless and go with it. In my Springfield I tried & settled with WWB 230 jhp's and my Remington stainless R1 (not the enhanced version) I tried & settled with Federal "Train & protect" 230 jhps.

Not as good as HST or Gold Dots I'm sure but will still urge the boogerman to leave me alone. IF I am carrying my 1911 in area I feel I may really need it then a rifle will already be in my hands.

I also lube with Mobil One...

Be honest, fair, and always prepared...
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Russ Larges
Moderator

USA
2311 Posts

Posted - January 05 2018 :  6:44:57 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I have been working with this thing for awhile now, mostly dry fire as it was -7 this morning and single digits all week. One question I have is on the safety, do you keep your thumb on it or slide off? I like the feel better when I slide off and it makes the grip safety for sure, but it seems slower that way.
Russ

The pistol, learn it well, carry it allways. Jeff Cooper
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Ace
Advanced Member

USA
5347 Posts

Posted - January 05 2018 :  8:46:29 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Dunno about the other folks, but I learned to ride the safety, that is keep the thumb on top. Keeps me from re-engaging it under recoil, especially when doing fast strings of fire. Felt unnatural for a while, but before long it feels wrong to drop the thumb. Don't know how many hundredths of a second I'd lose by moving the thumb under before firing, but I figure in a social situation I have a lot more time to lower the thumb and push up when the shooting's over. Ace

Give me $1 every time a Liberal lies, I'll give you $5 every time one tells the truth; I'll end up a wealthy man, you'll end up broke.
If pro-gunners are as murderous as anti-gunners claim, why are there so many anti-gunners still running their mouths?
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jle3030
Advanced Member

USA
5262 Posts

Posted - January 06 2018 :  08:40:43 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
How often do we see a shooter balk the first shot by failing to release the safety? That's not just 1911's, but any gun carried or on the range with the safety on. I find that instinctively riding the 1911 safety eliminates that potentially fatal error. It also helps as a reminder to thumb the safety back on when I'm through shooting the string.

If I take my normal high grip, thumbs forward, the shooting hand thumb naturally rides the safety. There's no room to get it any lower.

Potential downside: A fast, high, poorly placed or weak shooting hand grip can sometimes fail to adequately depress the grip safety. A speed bump on the grip safety solves that problem very nicely.

If you handle and shoot 1911's enough all this stuff becomes second nature and the issues disappear. Ain't it great to have a problem that can only be solved by more shooting?


Hope this helps.

Jeff

jle3030

Edited by - jle3030 on January 06 2018 08:57:40 AM
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Jim Higginbotham
Moderator

USA
9681 Posts

Posted - January 08 2018 :  08:46:32 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I've only seen it, sort of like you, in people who either have never fired a handgun before or who have shot very little. I've seen a LOT of shooters!

I've seen far more military folks inadvertently engage the safety on an M-9 when they ran the slide and then try to fire a shot - the trigger "free wheels" when you try to fire and the decocker/safety lever is down. But then the M9 safety is awkward and unnatrual unlike the 1911 or the M-16.

I have seen a few people who held their thumb low inadvertently flip up the safety on a 1911 - but they two were not folks who shot much and I've seen it on a scale of about 1% of the above mentioned M9 problems.

It is a training thing however.

Over the years I have seen a few folks fail to to depress the grip safety - on a couple of those I checked the gun and the grip safety was a bit "too safe" - an easy fix with a file and a couple of minutes work. These days most of the 1911s I see on the range have "speed bumps" or at least a grip safety that has more meat in it - I see very few problems with those other than on the S&W 1911s which have a lot of engagement surface to block the trigger.

I used to not care if a grip safety actually worked (as intended) but after the passage of years I decided I like it - just one more thing to keep a klutz like me from shooting myself.

Jim H.

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Uncle Mike
Advanced Member

USA
1677 Posts

Posted - January 08 2018 :  09:26:04 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi, I just don't use the safety as a rest for my thumb. This is commonly recommended but engaging the safety inadvertently is something I've never done. I keep my fingers away from the moving slide. Jim's mention of the grip safety triggered a memory for me. In my Springfield military style 1911 it sometimes did not engage the grip safety. I at first adjusted the three fingers in the main spring. I then replaced it with a Wolf spring. This is an easy fix, regards, Mike

"The secret of happiness is freedom, and the secret of freedom, courage"...Thucyides

"War is sweet to those who do not know it."...Erasmus
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Jim Higginbotham
Moderator

USA
9681 Posts

Posted - January 08 2018 :  11:43:46 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I will say that before I became "schooled" I shot a 1911 with a low thumb - mind you I wasn't really a 1911 fan at the time, I had one because it was cheaper than buying a S&W .357 (which I was a fan of at the time).

I don't recall ever bumping the safety on myself, but I have sure seen folks do it (not an extreme number, just occasionally).

That said, I learned that by riding the thumb safety and pointing the thumbs up at around 45 degrees I could shoot accurately *much* faster since the muzzle rises almost none that way .... for me, I'm not suggesting every one shoots better that way, one has to find their own authentic grip.

My hands don't work even the slightest bit with the thumbs pointed forward and the support thumb down on the frame - doesn't matter if I'm shooting a .45 or a .22

Jim H.

Get the Weaponcraft Journal on Amazon: Print or Kindle!
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Uncle Mike
Advanced Member

USA
1677 Posts

Posted - January 08 2018 :  12:55:07 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi Jimmy, I have found that by keeping your thumb down you avoid hammer bite. Just an observation that I have given to 1911 shooters that have standard grip safeties. I also noticed that when shooting a 1896 Mauser you should hold it by the "broom handle" and you will avoid getting bit. There is some arcane information for those that shoot C96's. As in all things YMMV but I have recently realized that I am somewhat (may be a bunch) unattuned to the majority of shooters as my experience likes and dislikes are different from the norm; as at least in what I read on line, regards, Mike

"The secret of happiness is freedom, and the secret of freedom, courage"...Thucyides

"War is sweet to those who do not know it."...Erasmus
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jle3030
Advanced Member

USA
5262 Posts

Posted - January 08 2018 :  12:59:46 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I think which thumb position works better is largely a Weaver (slightly bladed, support elbow down) vs. Isosceles (shoulders square to the target) thing. I shot Weaver for about 20 years. I thought the new thumbs forward grip they taught my daughter at the Police Academy was the screwiest thing ever. Then I retrained at an Isosceles oriented school and it all made sense. That's not to say one style is better than the other. In the end I shoot about the same either way, depending on where my feet and the target are positioned. Except now the thumbs stay forward. I suspect if I spent any time training with Jim, he might have me reconverted, though.

Jeff

jle3030
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Chris Christian
Advanced Member

USA
3300 Posts

Posted - January 08 2018 :  2:16:10 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
If the useless grip safety was removed from the 1911... as JMB realized when he designed the P35... this discussion would not be needed.

The only reason that useless design feature was included on the 1911 is because the U.S. Cavalry insisted upon it. If, today, you are engaging attackers from horseback, then it has some merit. Beyond that it's not only useless, but counter productive. Just MHO.

Chris Christian
There are those who make things happen. There are those who watch things happen. There are those who wonder What The Heck happened! Pick one.
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gw
Advanced Member

4385 Posts

Posted - January 08 2018 :  4:00:02 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Chris Christian

If the useless grip safety was removed from the 1911... as JMB realized when he designed the P35... this discussion would not be needed.

The only reason that useless design feature was included on the 1911 is because the U.S. Cavalry insisted upon it. If, today, you are engaging attackers from horseback, then it has some merit. Beyond that it's not only useless, but counter productive. Just MHO.



the cavalry never insisted on a grip safety, that's 1911 folk lore

the original Colt 1909 submitted for testing had no safety mechanism, the hammer was manually cocked/decocked.

the ordnance dept recommended a safety and rejected the the 1909

a redisigned Colt 1910 had a passive grip safety only, no thumb safety.

the ordnance dept recommended a manual safety that locked the slide which allowed the handgun to be holstered cocked .

Browning added the external thumb safety after the grip safety

the redisgned 1910 was then accepted even after 12 malfunctions in 6000 rounds.

Colt 1910s are rare, but if you see one you'll notice a grip safety, but no thumb safety.

there a a couple of good copies in the small weapons museum at RockIsland Arsenal

"Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not..."
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Chris Christian
Advanced Member

USA
3300 Posts

Posted - January 08 2018 :  4:30:19 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Whether you're correct or not (and numerous accounts regarding the grip safety conflict with your statement in that regard).... the fact that the grip safety is a useless, and negative, feature doesn't change.

A 1911... without a grip safety... what a handy firearm! How many would buy it? I suspect many.

For those who profess love for the grip safety... tell me why... and would you rather have the gun without it?

I eagerly await intelligent, reasoned, responses.

Chris Christian
There are those who make things happen. There are those who watch things happen. There are those who wonder What The Heck happened! Pick one.
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Ace
Advanced Member

USA
5347 Posts

Posted - January 08 2018 :  5:43:51 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I've always seen the grip safety as more a drop safety than a 'prevent an accidental discharge' safety. Seems intuitive that a proper grip will just naturally depress it, so it pretty much becomes a non-issue. I lump it into the same category as Glock's little dingus in the trigger, which so many other companies have copied. Had it been issued without the grip safety, I'd still be shooting 1911-style guns. That little feature wouldn't\doesn't figure into the equation. Heck, I'm a fan of the Springfield XD, too. Grip safeties don't concern me much.
It's like my Mother-in-law expressing her opinion on my wardrobe.Ace

Give me $1 every time a Liberal lies, I'll give you $5 every time one tells the truth; I'll end up a wealthy man, you'll end up broke.
If pro-gunners are as murderous as anti-gunners claim, why are there so many anti-gunners still running their mouths?
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gw
Advanced Member

4385 Posts

Posted - January 08 2018 :  7:15:42 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Chris Christian

Whether you're correct or not (and numerous accounts regarding the grip safety conflict with your statement in that regard).... the fact that the grip safety is a useless, and negative, feature doesn't change.

A 1911... without a grip safety... what a handy firearm! How many would buy it? I suspect many.

For those who profess love for the grip safety... tell me why... and would you rather have the gun without it?

I eagerly await intelligent, reasoned, responses.



numeruos accounts are wrong, the complete history of the acceptance testing is available in original form at the Rock Island Arsenal for veiwing. I spent a couple days going through the records there last year.

a properly fitted grip safety causes no problems, if you don't like it pin it

like Jim I used to pin mine down, but I came to see it as a plus.

the folks that worship JB are miss guided, the 1911 went through years of changes to get to what we have today, hind sight is 20/20

"Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not..."
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Chris Christian
Advanced Member

USA
3300 Posts

Posted - January 09 2018 :  3:23:23 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I haven't seen anything yet that tells me people would rather have a grip safety than not.
As for pinning the grip safety.... if one ever has to use that gun in a self-defense situation an anti-gun Prosecutor could make a big deal out of your deactivating a factory safety device on the gun.
If the thug you had to shoot lives, his Mother, and her civil defense lawyer can have a field day with that in a civil suit.
Just a thought... but I am obviously not a fan of grip safeties. Nor, will I own a gun that has one. I've seen too many offer problems.

Chris Christian
There are those who make things happen. There are those who watch things happen. There are those who wonder What The Heck happened! Pick one.
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gw
Advanced Member

4385 Posts

Posted - January 09 2018 :  6:51:29 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
learning disability


"Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not..."
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Russ Larges
Moderator

USA
2311 Posts

Posted - January 09 2018 :  8:07:40 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Shot it again today. This gun may be more fun then I thought. My original plan was to play with it, shoot up the ammo I had and dump it. Now I just don't know. It has grown on me some and I think I may keep it as it shoots where I point it and seems now to have no objection to any ammo I put in it. Barring one mag that does not like semiwadcutters.
Just how many 1911s is enough?
Russ

The pistol, learn it well, carry it allways. Jeff Cooper
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Ace
Advanced Member

USA
5347 Posts

Posted - January 10 2018 :  09:33:07 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
One more. Always one more. Ace

Give me $1 every time a Liberal lies, I'll give you $5 every time one tells the truth; I'll end up a wealthy man, you'll end up broke.
If pro-gunners are as murderous as anti-gunners claim, why are there so many anti-gunners still running their mouths?
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ajt
Average Member

USA
281 Posts

Posted - January 10 2018 :  09:49:00 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Russ, Cheaper than Dirt had 8 rd Chip McCormick Shooting Star mags on sale the other day in a net ad. I think they may have been $18+ but were under $20 each. I've had good luck with them and I prefer them over the MecGars, which I really like, due to their flat base plate. I have mainly MecGars anti-friction mags as I like the MecGars price - always can find them for less than $20. "Bud's" usually has very good prices on MecGar mags, and Quick shipping. Its hard to beat a .45 with good mags that hits where you point it!
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