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fsilber
Senior Member

USA
512 Posts

Posted - November 24 2017 :  09:44:02 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Any suggestions as to who ought to do what in this scenario?

The place is a mental hospital. Because some patients are insane, a danger to themselves and others, and unpredictable -- rules on weapons are similar to rules for those who work inside of prisons. (The difference is that prisons have a hardened perimeter. An inpatient "hospital for behavioral medicine" does not.)

The situation: An employee with a history of odd behavior has been fired. He has military experience, is into weapons and since being fired has threatened to shoot up the place. He was arrested and sent to a different mental health facility, but as all such facilities these days concentrate on short-term treatment he has since been released. (Someone with his job experience certainly would know what to say and what not to say, to get out as quickly as possible.)

The facility is trying to keep things hushed up. The staff hear rumors, and are terrified.

Any suggestions as to what those managing the facility really ought to do? Hire armed security (despite the risk that an escaped patient might somehow be able to fill his hands)?

Any suggestions as to what the staff should do? As with prison guards, there is a real danger of being overpowered by inmates -- even if someone were willing to risk being caught and fired.

BatteryOaksBilly
Junior Member

USA
125 Posts

Posted - November 24 2017 :  09:57:29 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
OOOOOPH! Now that's a hard one. When caught like this I always defer to what we call here, Jim's Dictum. We each have to find our personal salvation. Your last 11 words tell me you already have. Good luck.

Billy Bruton..Carry every step..Shoot every day!
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bandaidman
Advanced Member

USA
1309 Posts

Posted - November 30 2017 :  9:45:30 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I worked for nearly 10 years at a state institution, Multiple problems here, 1. If you work there and are caught with no-no's not only could you be fired but you also could be persecuted for endangerment. We lost many good caring people who because they tried to defend themselves were fired,( up to and including getting stabbed and raped.) 2. because you had in your possession something say a gun or a longish knife you could be classified as a felon and spend time in prison yourself. The clients most who knew how to work the system could and would get staff fired just as a thing to do. (once fired for cause you may find it difficult to get another job doing anything like that, and in some cases never work in related areas. Then there is the Staff themselves, as you said most could stay with the clients. When I went to Psych training in nursing school we used to say that for most of the staff the only way you could determine the difference between the staff and the clients was that the staff had keys and went home.
If you are certain this individual is planning something make sure the local PD knows also. We had a good working relationship with them as they could and did do things that we couldn't do and get away with it as they were showing harm to others. Our clients were supposed to have an IQ of less than 70 but some knew how to "fail" the test. So instead of spending time in prison where they would probably get hurt for doing the same things that they did to us, got to stay at a place that would take them to the movies, buy them i pads and other stuff because they were developmentally delayed.
If they suspect the ex-employee to start something they would "lockdown" the place and with closed circuit TV's would call the PD if they saw said person coming onto the campus. The idiot who fired this one guy who was as nice as could be and more like a bunny instead of a lion found a much better job with better wages and hours, and far less hoops to jump through. I would say more but don't' really want to raise my blood pressure and you would get bored

“If for a while the harder you try, the harder it gets, take heart. So it has been with the best people who ever lived.
Jeffery Holland
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LittleBill
Advanced Member

4377 Posts

Posted - December 01 2017 :  08:36:28 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Nothing boring about your post, Terry, it’s all news to me...


"Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at its testing point"--- C.S. Lewis

"There are some ideas so foolish that only an intellectual could believe them"--- George Orwell

Slow Is Smooth, Smooth Is Fast
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Malcolm
Advanced Member

USA
4008 Posts

Posted - December 01 2017 :  6:46:01 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
What Terry said, in regards to the staff, on the whole, is frightenly accurate. I’ve seen a few excellent medical professionals, RNs and Techs in psych units that are outstanding. The rest of the “staff”is far lower functioning than the patients.

"The measure of a man's character, is how he treats someone who can do nothing for him." (unknown)
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bandaidman
Advanced Member

USA
1309 Posts

Posted - December 02 2017 :  03:26:43 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Malcolm

What Terry said, in regards to the staff, on the whole, is frightenly accurate. I’ve seen a few excellent medical professionals, RNs and Techs in psych units that are outstanding. The rest of the “staff”is far lower functioning than the patients.


Malcolm, in Nursing school the MD’s played cards with the nursing supervisor ( this was a state hospital (where muleskinner lives) when I went back for my bachelors degree the students planned barbeques.
There are some good nurse's that work in the field, but the shrinks are few and far between. I could tell stories, but I'd get in hot water for sure.

“If for a while the harder you try, the harder it gets, take heart. So it has been with the best people who ever lived.
Jeffery Holland
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jle3030
Advanced Member

USA
4992 Posts

Posted - December 02 2017 :  08:19:02 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
With one well grounded exception, the mental health professionals I treated in my dental practice were all rather "strange". To the point where I would not want to entrust my own mental well being to their counselling. One university psychiatrist's chronic pain issues were particularly intransigent, being largely psychogenic/stress related. One day she remarked: "I'm afraid I'm becoming my patients".

My strong impression was that any patient's affinity for guns, shooting, or self defense would be considered a Pandora's box set of aberrations to be treated.

Jeff

jle3030
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LittleBill
Advanced Member

4377 Posts

Posted - December 02 2017 :  09:07:34 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by jle3030

With one well grounded exception, the mental health professionals I treated in my dental practice were all rather "strange". To the point where I would not want to entrust my own mental well being to their counselling. One university psychiatrist's chronic pain issues were particularly intransigent, being largely psychogenic/stress related. One day she remarked: "I'm afraid I'm becoming my patients".

My strong impression was that any patient's affinity for guns, shooting, or self defense would be considered a Pandora's box set of aberrations to be treated.

Jeff


We’ve already seen the ‘normalization’ of homosexuality— which up until 1973 was listed in the DSM (diagnostic manual of mental disorders) as an undesirable pathology— and now “transgenderism” has moved from being considered an unfortunate pathology (“gender dysphoria”) to being celebrated as a wonderful example of “gender fluidity” and our newly reinvented “tolerance”.

Can the classification of normal attitudes and behaviors as undesirable pathologies be far behind?


"Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at its testing point"--- C.S. Lewis

"There are some ideas so foolish that only an intellectual could believe them"--- George Orwell

Slow Is Smooth, Smooth Is Fast

Edited by - LittleBill on December 02 2017 09:08:25 AM
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Malcolm
Advanced Member

USA
4008 Posts

Posted - December 02 2017 :  09:19:31 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
LB,
Looks like I’ll finally be classified as “normal” one day.....(sigh)

"The measure of a man's character, is how he treats someone who can do nothing for him." (unknown)
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LittleBill
Advanced Member

4377 Posts

Posted - December 02 2017 :  09:30:22 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Malcolm, I just hope that when they get around to rounding up the “normals”, and “offering” them free mandatory “re-education” “classes”— they’ll let us sit next to each other....


"Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at its testing point"--- C.S. Lewis

"There are some ideas so foolish that only an intellectual could believe them"--- George Orwell

Slow Is Smooth, Smooth Is Fast

Edited by - LittleBill on December 02 2017 09:31:07 AM
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jle3030
Advanced Member

USA
4992 Posts

Posted - December 02 2017 :  11:52:55 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
At one upper level TDI handgun course I paired up with a guy who was just two months away from his Masters in Clinical Psychology. When I asked him what his colleagues would say if they knew how he was spending his weekend he replied that he didn't even tell them, because he would automatically be judged as insecure, hostile, paranoid, etc.

"And that's not even getting into the sexual aspects."
"That's what the textbooks say, so that's how you'd be evaluated. Trying to enlighten them will only be interpreted as rationalization and probably adds months to your time in therapy."

Not to knock all, or even most members of the mental health community, but I'm convinced that those seeking counselling should be extremely cautious in choosing the right therapist.

Jeff


jle3030
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LittleBill
Advanced Member

4377 Posts

Posted - December 02 2017 :  12:10:03 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by jle3030

At one upper level TDI handgun course I paired up with a guy who was just two months away from his Masters in Clinical Psychology. When I asked him what his colleagues would say if they knew how he was spending his weekend he replied that he didn't even tell them, because he would automatically be judged as insecure, hostile, paranoid, etc.

"And that's not even getting into the sexual aspects."
"That's what the textbooks say, so that's how you'd be evaluated. Trying to enlighten them will only be interpreted as rationalization and probably adds months to your time in therapy."

Not to knock all, or even most members of the mental health community, but I'm convinced that those seeking counselling should be extremely cautious in choosing the right therapist.

Jeff




That’s for sure!

Unfortunately, the ‘social sciences’— like academia in general, Hollywood, and the mainstream media— have been taken over by politically-correct progressives. Any conservatives lurking among them usually have to maintain a very low profile, in order to avoid being purged in the witch hunt.

OTOH, the psychologist I interned under was an avid hunter and strong 2A advocate, NRA life member who carried every day. At least 3 of us at our weekly intern meetings were armed. So it all depends....

But yeah, he was the exception, folks like that in the ‘mental health community’ are ‘few and far between’.


"Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at its testing point"--- C.S. Lewis

"There are some ideas so foolish that only an intellectual could believe them"--- George Orwell

Slow Is Smooth, Smooth Is Fast

Edited by - LittleBill on December 02 2017 12:56:12 PM
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bandaidman
Advanced Member

USA
1309 Posts

Posted - December 04 2017 :  12:16:50 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Ok since this thread is still going; once back in the dark ages while suffering through nursing school. I had a secretary who suggested that I work on getting a minor in Psychology. much later I found out said Secretary would take male applicants and file 13 said applications. Being the sort not to bring lawsuits and having finally gotten my nursing degree I let it go.
However I learned many great things from a very funny psychologist,1.the highest level of suicides in the medical profession is psychiatry.
2. Most if not all med school graduates who choose Psychiatry do so because they have personal problems that they are working on, but feel that they can help others while working on their own problems.
I'd do 3. but it involves how people commit suicide and don't think it needs to be covered.
I just wish I could show some of the things he put on the black board (shows how old I am.)

“If for a while the harder you try, the harder it gets, take heart. So it has been with the best people who ever lived.
Jeffery Holland
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jle3030
Advanced Member

USA
4992 Posts

Posted - December 04 2017 :  8:43:03 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Washington Post, via Drudge, has a piece about the advent of budget priced online psychiatry. Your app puts you in touch with a "non judgmental robot". Woebot Labs (get it?) offers your very own online chatbot that provides you with "personalized mental health care; on demand conversation; decision making advice; and self help guidance". The bot contacts you at preset intervals, allowing you to "get things off your chest without worrying about what the other person thinks".

The company claims to have beta tested it with college students with strongly positive results. One coed enthused about how she has bonded with her bot and hopes they will be friends for a long time. You can personalize your bot. "Kareem" is clued in to the problems of Syrian immigrants. "Emma" is programmed for Dutch speaking individuals with mild depression. I wonder if they can help those of us with the blue steel revolver blues?

Cost is $39.00 per month after a two week free introductory trial.

The article was written by one Mary Ellis Nutt.

Jeff

jle3030
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Ace
Advanced Member

USA
5049 Posts

Posted - December 04 2017 :  9:14:37 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Oh....my.....so many possibilities.... Ace

Give me $1 every time a Liberal lies, I'll give you $5 every time one tells the truth; I'll end up a wealthy man, you'll end up broke.
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LittleBill
Advanced Member

4377 Posts

Posted - December 04 2017 :  9:53:47 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
That’s gotta be a spoof....


"Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at its testing point"--- C.S. Lewis

"There are some ideas so foolish that only an intellectual could believe them"--- George Orwell

Slow Is Smooth, Smooth Is Fast
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jle3030
Advanced Member

USA
4992 Posts

Posted - December 05 2017 :  05:55:09 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Googling woebot.com it appears to be a genuine entity. Staff page shows pix of seven millennial looking tech types on one psychologist. They're hiring. Looks like they have big plans for expansion. They claim news exposure from several major media outlets.

Even if this site turns out to be no more than innocent lame self help, the potential for malicious expansion or imitators seems endless. Hopefully they don't get past the HIPPAA laws and government licensing regulations.

Jeff

jle3030

Edited by - jle3030 on December 05 2017 05:56:39 AM
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LittleBill
Advanced Member

4377 Posts

Posted - December 05 2017 :  08:14:24 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
“I’m a lactose-intolerant gluten-free vegan who voted for Obama twice, and most recently for Hillary Clinton. But both my parents voted for Trump! Am I compromising my integrity by continuing to live in their basement?
Yours truly, Cass Keenwah”

I’d love to see what the psycho-bot’s response be!


"Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at its testing point"--- C.S. Lewis

"There are some ideas so foolish that only an intellectual could believe them"--- George Orwell

Slow Is Smooth, Smooth Is Fast

Edited by - LittleBill on December 05 2017 08:52:33 AM
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LittleBill
Advanced Member

4377 Posts

Posted - December 05 2017 :  08:50:55 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Or:

“I’ve been reading that there’s no such thing as ‘gender’, and no such thing as a ‘real man’ or a ‘real woman’.... that it’s all just a ‘social construct’, imposed on us by the ‘heteronormative patriarchy’ to confuse and oppress us. And I’ve gotta say, that makes a lot of sense; as I’ve never felt very ‘masculine’. But then again, I haven’t had much luck trying to feel ‘feminine’ either. And knowing these truths has made ‘dating’, like, super-complicated, to say the least! Please! Can you help me ‘find myself’?
Yours truly, Rusty Tule”


"Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at its testing point"--- C.S. Lewis

"There are some ideas so foolish that only an intellectual could believe them"--- George Orwell

Slow Is Smooth, Smooth Is Fast

Edited by - LittleBill on December 05 2017 08:55:59 AM
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