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LittleBill
Advanced Member

4363 Posts

Posted - November 11 2017 :  3:53:36 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Online site ‘Active Self Protection dot com’ has a Youtube video entitled ‘Springfield XD is the McRib of Sidearms’, listing all the reasons why (according to him) armorers and trainers do not like this gun.

I have no idea how valid his points are, I’ve only shot a friend’s XD once, liked it and experienced no problems. But for those of y’all who may be relying on them, you might want to check it out.


"Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at its testing point"--- C.S. Lewis

"There are some ideas so foolish that only an intellectual could believe them"--- George Orwell

Slow Is Smooth, Smooth Is Fast

Arvinator
Advanced Member

USA
5252 Posts

Posted - November 11 2017 :  4:12:35 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I guess they are fine handguns. In 2001, my then PD issued us the HS2000, the pistol Springfield got & named the XD.
I hated it. I sent 8 officers to the range, all 8 had malfunctions. I went on paper with the department telling them they were junk and we butted heads. Finally they were replaced with Glock 22's.

I'm sure they have been improved, but I have a bad taste in my mouth.

Be honest, fair, and always prepared...
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LittleBill
Advanced Member

4363 Posts

Posted - November 11 2017 :  4:49:08 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Your experience is apparently typical of that of a lot of departments.


"Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at its testing point"--- C.S. Lewis

"There are some ideas so foolish that only an intellectual could believe them"--- George Orwell

Slow Is Smooth, Smooth Is Fast
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Ace
Advanced Member

USA
5045 Posts

Posted - November 11 2017 :  5:16:33 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I hope they're better now. I have two, have never had a malfunction, and trust them with my life. Of course, if one is gonna crap out on me, it won't be on the range. I'm 'lucky' that way. Ace

Give me $1 every time a Liberal lies, I'll give you $5 every time one tells the truth; I'll end up a wealthy man, you'll end up broke.
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Chris Christian
Advanced Member

USA
2936 Posts

Posted - November 11 2017 :  5:18:04 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by LittleBill

Your experience is apparently typical of that of a lot of departments.




LB. Once you mentioned YouTube you lost me.Why not just quote NYT?
I believe nothing appearing on either

Chris Christian
There are those who make things happen. There are those who watch things happen. There are those who wonder What The Heck happened! Pick one.
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LittleBill
Advanced Member

4363 Posts

Posted - November 11 2017 :  5:39:08 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I hear you, Chris, there’s a lot of BS on Youtube. OTOH, IMO, there’s some ‘gold’ to be found among the rubbish. I believe our very own Jim H. can be found there.

And even the NYT can ocassionally perform a useful function. For example, were you to run out of toilet paper....


"Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at its testing point"--- C.S. Lewis

"There are some ideas so foolish that only an intellectual could believe them"--- George Orwell

Slow Is Smooth, Smooth Is Fast

Edited by - LittleBill on November 11 2017 6:04:19 PM
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LittleBill
Advanced Member

4363 Posts

Posted - November 11 2017 :  5:43:12 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ace

I hope they're better now. I have two, have never had a malfunction, and trust them with my life. Of course, if one is gonna crap out on me, it won't be on the range. I'm 'lucky' that way. Ace


Ace, if these are your primary carry pieces, I’d strongly urge you to watch the video. The presenter (I don’t know his name) is ‘a trainer’, and claims to have seen a lot of them in action. He also talks about specific problems he’s seen recurring on XDs. He specifically mentions that these are problems that typically crop up when a lot of rounds are shot through the gun, like in a pistol class.

If you’re staking your life on them, please check it out. We’d hate to lose you...


"Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at its testing point"--- C.S. Lewis

"There are some ideas so foolish that only an intellectual could believe them"--- George Orwell

Slow Is Smooth, Smooth Is Fast

Edited by - LittleBill on November 11 2017 5:49:37 PM
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Ace
Advanced Member

USA
5045 Posts

Posted - November 11 2017 :  7:52:25 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yeah, one of my regular hanger-outers at the store is pretty knowledgeable in the gun area, and he constantly hates on my XD, mostly because it's not a Glock. See, Glocks never malfunction, and all the police agencies are using them, and they are more efficient, and they fit everybody's hand better, and grip safeties are just something waiting to break, and Glocks are more inherently accurate, and.......

I'd guess we could find someone here who has seen a Glock or two malfunction; heck, maybe even a 1911.

I have to go with both you and Chris re: YouTube--it's hard to find truth and honesty on it, but if you are careful, you can find one of those gold nuggets. When I have time, I'll put in something like 'Glock failures' or 'Glock kabooms' in the searchy thing, see what comes up. Ace

Give me $1 every time a Liberal lies, I'll give you $5 every time one tells the truth; I'll end up a wealthy man, you'll end up broke.
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Arvinator
Advanced Member

USA
5252 Posts

Posted - November 11 2017 :  10:30:07 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
You stake your life on what you feel safe with. I get odd looks and comments on my choices but it's my life on the line and we get to live or not live by our choices.

Guns are tools for survival. I've seen Glock 22's malfunction. My own J frame broke the firing pin, anything can tear up.

Murphy's Law likes to follow me I tell my friends.

Be honest, fair, and always prepared...
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LittleBill
Advanced Member

4363 Posts

Posted - November 11 2017 :  10:39:15 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Ace, the guy in the video I referenced did say he’d seen a lot of broken grip safeties on the XD; IIRC a ‘sear pin’ or ‘shear pin’ breaking?

He also didn’t like the fact that you had to depress the grip safety before you could manipulate the slide.

Then there was another roll pin on the slide that liked to work its way out after a certain amount of shooting.

And he really hated the XD mags, said he’d seen a lot of malfunctions due to them.

I didn’t watch the whole thing, but he wasn’t just hating on the gun, he was quite specific about what he’d seen go wrong.

Every gun breaks, Glocks break, Sigs break; this guy is saying that in his experience, XDs break a whole lot oftener. He says that in his classes, the XDs fail in a major way— such that they require an armorer to get them back up and running— far more than any other pistol.


"Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at its testing point"--- C.S. Lewis

"There are some ideas so foolish that only an intellectual could believe them"--- George Orwell

Slow Is Smooth, Smooth Is Fast

Edited by - LittleBill on November 11 2017 11:08:02 PM
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LittleBill
Advanced Member

4363 Posts

Posted - November 11 2017 :  10:53:48 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Arvinator

You stake your life on what you feel safe with. I get odd looks and comments on my choices but it's my life on the line and we get to live or not live by our choices.

Guns are tools for survival. I've seen Glock 22's malfunction. My own J frame broke the firing pin, anything can tear up.

Murphy's Law likes to follow me I tell my friends.


Yes, and I try and make sure (as much as possible) that when I’m feeling safe about a certain choice, that my feeling of safety is justified. After all, the passengers on the Titanic felt safe....

With Murphy always just around the corner, I want to give him as little as possible to work with. One of the benefits of the Internet is that we’re exposed to a wide range of peoples’ experiences. All guns break, but some less than others; and with enough people recounting their experiences, what’s good and what’s less good should become apparent.

Nothing is perfect, but some things come closer than others.


"Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at its testing point"--- C.S. Lewis

"There are some ideas so foolish that only an intellectual could believe them"--- George Orwell

Slow Is Smooth, Smooth Is Fast

Edited by - LittleBill on November 11 2017 11:04:13 PM
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zeke
Junior Member

248 Posts

Posted - November 12 2017 :  12:02:23 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Can't help myself but his training facility looks like someone's closet with a sheet background.
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LittleBill
Advanced Member

4363 Posts

Posted - November 12 2017 :  09:08:48 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yeah, I know very little about his site, except that I got there from Greg Ellifritz’s Active Response Training site, which is legit and does offer a lot of helpful info and insights.

As with everything you read or hear on the Internet, check it out. It would be foolish to assume it’s true.... and equally foolish to assume it’s bogus.

If his opinions of the XD are valid, he won’t be the only person voicing them.


"Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at its testing point"--- C.S. Lewis

"There are some ideas so foolish that only an intellectual could believe them"--- George Orwell

Slow Is Smooth, Smooth Is Fast

Edited by - LittleBill on November 12 2017 09:15:20 AM
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zeke
Junior Member

248 Posts

Posted - November 12 2017 :  10:02:46 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
One thing have found with only 3 xd's owned is on some models mags are designed right to the edge of stated capacity. The 45 xds and .40 xdm owned would be examples. Believe there was a recall associated with the grip safety's on the xds's, both mine were sent in.

Maybe I am naturally cynical, but am firm believer in documentation of actual experience. While there certainly may be some truth at root of a lot of his statements, the first third of video appeared to just be setting up anyone who'd disagreed with his assertions.

For me it was certainly a worthwhile video to review.
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LittleBill
Advanced Member

4363 Posts

Posted - November 12 2017 :  10:09:11 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yeah, and if what he’s asserting is true, there will be others out there who’ve had the same experience. Like Arvinator in his post early in the thread.


"Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at its testing point"--- C.S. Lewis

"There are some ideas so foolish that only an intellectual could believe them"--- George Orwell

Slow Is Smooth, Smooth Is Fast
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Ace
Advanced Member

USA
5045 Posts

Posted - November 12 2017 :  1:22:04 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Oh yeah? Well, my Ford is better than your Dodge! Ace

Give me $1 every time a Liberal lies, I'll give you $5 every time one tells the truth; I'll end up a wealthy man, you'll end up broke.
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LittleBill
Advanced Member

4363 Posts

Posted - November 12 2017 :  1:45:46 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I beg your pardon? Ford? Dodge?

My tiny electric car allows me to play a meaningful part in saving the planet... and to feel infinitely superior to everyone else in the process....

Seriously, I’ve got no dog in this fight, or any personal experience with the XD. I shot one once that belonged to my friend, he liked it, I liked it too.

I carry Sigs. When someone suggests that Sigs too have been known to break, I calmly clamp both hands over my ears, and begin loudly repeating over and over again, “I can’t hear you!” until they go away.


"Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at its testing point"--- C.S. Lewis

"There are some ideas so foolish that only an intellectual could believe them"--- George Orwell

Slow Is Smooth, Smooth Is Fast

Edited by - LittleBill on November 12 2017 1:47:47 PM
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RLS
Senior Member

USA
691 Posts

Posted - November 12 2017 :  2:00:44 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I recalled that John Farnam had a Quip on the XD with concerns about parts possibly being incorrectly installed on re-assembly.

It took a few moments, but I found it.


23 June 05

SA XD

I attended part of the SA XD Armorer’s Class yesterday. It is clear that SA is making a sincere effort to get the XD accepted by the police community as an legitimate, duty gun. As I’ve said in the past, XDs we’ve had in classes have all worked fine.

However, real problems made themselves apparent during the class. Glocks, even at the armorer level, are nearly impossible to reassemble wrong. Glock parts are designed to fit together only one way. When they don’t fit together, that is a hint that you are doing it incorrectly. SA engineers need to take note. A number of XD parts can be easily put in place backwards and/or upside down, with no clue that assembly is inappropriate. When assemble is complete, the pistol won’t work. In fact, the is one blind hole, designed to receive a pin. If the pin inadvertently goes in backward, it cannot be removed and must be drilled out!

If SA is serious about making inroads into the police market, they are going to have to make engineering changes in the XD that make the job of the armorer less tedious. The XD is a good gun, but it is not up to Glock standards yet.

/John


I don't know if there has been changes made to rectify the situation.



Rick
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revjen45
Advanced Member

2234 Posts

Posted - November 12 2017 :  11:20:32 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
"See, Glocks never malfunction, and all the police agencies are using them, and they are more efficient, and they fit everybody's hand better, and grip safeties are just something waiting to break, and Glocks are more inherently accurate, and......."
Everybody knows that Glocks are as ugly as a mud fence and that the above quote applies to the Steyr pistols.

Better to perish in the struggle for freedom than live to see defeat.
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bandaidman
Advanced Member

USA
1309 Posts

Posted - November 13 2017 :  02:48:06 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Well I have 3 XD's one with close to 3000 rounds through it and no problems,my magazines have been run full through four 4day classes The last one with my granddaughter using it with no malfunctions there are possible parts that can break, there is one roll pin in the gun so if that is a weakness I am really in trouble with my VP9 as just about every pin in that gun is a roll pin, ah but they are German roll pins that's the difference.
There is a website that sells parts for XD'S that states that the only pin that could break is the one roll pin and offer a different one,but I'm not too worried.
They are my carry guns and one is my range gun I've put a trigger kit that lightened the pull and reduced take-up and took away overtravel. I bought them because it was the most ambidexterous gun on the market at the time. Pre-Smith and Wesson M&P, VP9,Sig P250. And the VP9 is the only one that is truly ambidextrous although I think FN's latest is.
Oh in the 4 courses that I went to the two guns that people had problems with were Glocks and 1911's go figure.

“If for a while the harder you try, the harder it gets, take heart. So it has been with the best people who ever lived.
Jeffery Holland
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bandaidman
Advanced Member

USA
1309 Posts

Posted - November 13 2017 :  03:05:35 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I watched his video on the VP9 and am amazed at the round count he has put through it, and how upset he was when H&K didn't (give) send him a VP9SK to test, I lost interest after watching that video, even though he loves the VP9 and the SK as well.

“If for a while the harder you try, the harder it gets, take heart. So it has been with the best people who ever lived.
Jeffery Holland
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Olddog84
Senior Member

USA
598 Posts

Posted - November 13 2017 :  09:16:19 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I have one XD-9 Tac: I used it in IPDA, carried it, and shot it a lot for about 2 years. During that time I was searching for a gun for my wife, who is 4'10" compared to my 6'2" and the variety of "little" guns I bought for her never worked. One day at the range she saw my XD and said "how about that one" and picked it up and loved it. Also shot better than ever (she is not and never will be a great shot). It became her gun at that point. It has never, to my recollection, had a malfunction. It is her bedside gun. I never got another XD, found the M&P series and the Glock 32 and stayed with those, but I have been very happy with the performance of "her" XD. I think we can dig up personal testimonies from someone who has a bad experience with just about any gun you think of. The only Taurus revolver I bought, years ago (a 38 model 85) sent the firing pin flying on about the 10th dry fire shot on the first day I owned it. Sure, Taurus fixed it, but I sold it right away and to this day will not trust a Taurus. Many disagree. We are all victims of our experience, eh?
Mike

"Somebody Tries to kill you, you try to kill 'em right back." Malcolm Reynolds
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gauchobill
Advanced Member

1036 Posts

Posted - November 13 2017 :  09:23:27 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
+1! I think you could easily dig up a bad story about any make or model of firearm-or automobile--or washing machine--or any other common home appliance.
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Ace
Advanced Member

USA
5045 Posts

Posted - November 13 2017 :  09:55:09 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
6'2" and 4'10"? I think I'd worry more about tripping over her than the XD malfunctioning. Ace

Give me $1 every time a Liberal lies, I'll give you $5 every time one tells the truth; I'll end up a wealthy man, you'll end up broke.
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LittleBill
Advanced Member

4363 Posts

Posted - November 13 2017 :  4:01:03 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Olddog84

I have one XD-9 Tac: I used it in IPDA, carried it, and shot it a lot for about 2 years. During that time I was searching for a gun for my wife, who is 4'10" compared to my 6'2" and the variety of "little" guns I bought for her never worked. One day at the range she saw my XD and said "how about that one" and picked it up and loved it. Also shot better than ever (she is not and never will be a great shot). It became her gun at that point. It has never, to my recollection, had a malfunction. It is her bedside gun. I never got another XD, found the M&P series and the Glock 32 and stayed with those, but I have been very happy with the performance of "her" XD. I think we can dig up personal testimonies from someone who has a bad experience with just about any gun you think of. The only Taurus revolver I bought, years ago (a 38 model 85) sent the firing pin flying on about the 10th dry fire shot on the first day I owned it. Sure, Taurus fixed it, but I sold it right away and to this day will not trust a Taurus. Many disagree. We are all victims of our experience, eh?
Mike


quote:
Originally posted by gauchobill

+1! I think you could easily dig up a bad story about any make or model of firearm-or automobile--or washing machine--or any other common home appliance.


No doubt.

What makes this video different-- and possibly worth listening to-- is that the guy is claiming to be a trainer who regularly conducts pistol classes.

Unlike the 'average' person recounting an anecdote about their personal experience with their one gun, he's claiming to have had extensive experience observing how different types of pistols perform when they're shot a lot in a short time.

That's very different than one person talking about their experience with one gun; which I agree, really tells you nothing.

But if someone has had the opportunity to watch dozens of shooters with XDs putting hundreds of rounds through them over the course of a few days, his opinion may be worth listening to.


"Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at its testing point"--- C.S. Lewis

"There are some ideas so foolish that only an intellectual could believe them"--- George Orwell

Slow Is Smooth, Smooth Is Fast

Edited by - LittleBill on November 13 2017 4:21:24 PM
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Ten Driver
Advanced Member

1682 Posts

Posted - November 14 2017 :  02:09:10 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hello,

Bill, your timing on this is interesting. I had an XD shooter as one of my students this week, and his was the only gun that malfunctioned in the class. Other guns in attendance included models from HK, S&W and of course, Glock.

The weapon was not returning fully into battery after it was fired. I put the class on a water break and we tore apart the gun to inspect, clean, and lube it. I paid close attention to the chamber and the RSA, but saw no issues. Everything appeared OK, but when we resumed shooting, we had the same issue.

It was only after the second round of failures that I learned the shooter had just switched to a different brand of ammo. We returned to the first type, and the gun functioned properly again.

The "bad" ammo was factory, and looked good. It fired just fine in another gun from a different make when we tested it.

So, this was probably a case of ammo incompatibility. That happens sometimes.

I've had other XDs in class and they've run OK, but I have to agree that the grip safety is problematic. I've seen shooters with a bad grip fail to disengage it, and have also heard credible reports about it failing as described in the video you referenced, even though I've not witnessed this firsthand. I'm leery of it and think it creates more problems than it solves.

The guy in the video was a little harsh on the trigger, I think. It's not a great trigger, for sure, but I don't think it's any worse than the original M&P, and I'm not sure that a Glock (at least through Gen 4--I haven't shot a Gen 5 yet) is dramatically better.

I've not seen the roll pin issue, but if it happens as frequently as he says, that's a problem. I had a roll pin on my early Sig P226 walk out, and a good whack put it back in place. I didn't have to do it again, but if it had been reoccurring, I would have had to get a new pin. You can't run a gun that tries to disassemble itself all the time, and if the XD design is prone to that, it's a flaw.

The magazines don't appear to be as robust as those from other makes, and that does concern me a bit, but I have to say I've never seen any magazine-related problems firsthand. Of course, I've only seen half a dozen XDs come through class, so the sample size isn't large.

I like the fact that they have steel sights, but have no use for LCIs or striker indicators. The takedown procedure is improved over the Glock (especially on the XDM models, which does away with pulling the trigger).

In my area, they seem to be overpriced, compared to the competition.

Mike

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