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 Shockwave, coach gun or ???
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jle3030
Advanced Member

USA
4974 Posts

Posted - November 09 2017 :  9:17:36 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'm thinking about acquiring a "shorty", but fully legal (no tax stamps) shotgun. Has anyone tried the new Mossberg Shockwave shotgun or its Remington competitor? Opinions? It's a niche gun for sure. I understand that it's totally illegal to conceal the thing, which would seem to limit its practical usefulness. I'm skeptical, having seen students unable to hit with their pistol grip shotguns in tactical shotgun classes.

The alternative would be the a classic double barrel coach gun - considerably longer than the Shockwave and lower capacity (2 shots vs. 5+1). But much surer to hit with by virtue of having a shoulder stock.

The role of the gun would be as an all purpose knock around piece. I can't see either one as a house gun, as it would relegate the far more capable Benelli M1-S90 to safe queen status.

I'm leaning toward the coach gun. Wish I hadn't sold the 20 ga. Rossi all those years ago. Opinions?

Jeff

jle3030

Pop Pop
Senior Member

USA
661 Posts

Posted - November 09 2017 :  9:38:23 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
What is wrong with the 20 or 12 Ga pump? I have a Mossberg. I gave my 20 Ga to my grandson for hunting. He is a little fellow.

Seriously contemplating purchasing another Remington 870 pump action, or Mossey 20 Ga either pump or semi auto home defender. I don't like pistol grips.

I am unfamiliar of the shockwave you have suggested. Pardon my ignorance Jeff.

Pop Pop
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Ace
Advanced Member

USA
5020 Posts

Posted - November 09 2017 :  10:34:22 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Of the two, I vote for the coach gun. Ace

Give me $1 every time a Liberal lies, I'll give you $5 every time one tells the truth; I'll end up a wealthy man, you'll end up broke.
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LittleBill
Advanced Member

4311 Posts

Posted - November 10 2017 :  12:33:20 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
For my intended purposes, I see the Shockwave and Tac-14 primarily as indoor guns, for across-the-room encounters. Handy to manipulate and less awkward in tight quarters than a fullsize gun.

I’ve got the Shockwave, and my experience accords with what gw says about the Tac-14, it’s easy enough to control with a little practice; much more so than a traditional pistol grip shotgun. Maybe the ‘raptor’ grip does a better job of ‘channeling’ recoil?

Clint Smith has a Youtube video in which he shoots one at varying distances, from contact out to 10 yds, at those distances it gives up little or nothing in terms of accuracy, compared to a shoulder-fired gun. Hickock45 does a side-by-side comparison of the Shockwave and the Tac.

Both companies have also recently come out with a 20 ga. version.

The other advantage of the 14” raptor-grip guns is that they’re so much easier to store than a fullsize shotgun. I keep one under our living room sofa, ‘just in case’. They also fit on a closet shelf or in a kitchen cupboard, out of the reach of kids but quick to access. If you’re travelling, it fits in a regular size suitcase or gym bag, you can discretely carry it into your motel room.

So it fills a different ‘niche’ than a coach gun or fullsize pump or semi-auto. Ideally, I’d like to have at least one of each.


"Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at its testing point"--- C.S. Lewis

"There are some ideas so foolish that only an intellectual could believe them"--- George Orwell

Slow Is Smooth, Smooth Is Fast

Edited by - LittleBill on November 10 2017 04:31:13 AM
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LittleBill
Advanced Member

4311 Posts

Posted - November 10 2017 :  12:44:12 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
If you do decide to get one, Bud’s Guns has the best prices I’ve seen.


"Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at its testing point"--- C.S. Lewis

"There are some ideas so foolish that only an intellectual could believe them"--- George Orwell

Slow Is Smooth, Smooth Is Fast
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Dov
Advanced Member

USA
2637 Posts

Posted - November 10 2017 :  02:37:02 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The keltec KSG bull pup shotgun is about same OAL as whippet but gives you full stock plus a pair of 7 round mags (6 with 3” shells).

If I can get my joints to tolerating non auto shotguns again the KSG is on my buy list.
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LittleBill
Advanced Member

4311 Posts

Posted - November 10 2017 :  04:29:21 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Have the reviews gotten any better for the KSG? Last I looked, opinions varied as to their reliability.

"Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at its testing point"--- C.S. Lewis

"There are some ideas so foolish that only an intellectual could believe them"--- George Orwell

Slow Is Smooth, Smooth Is Fast
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BatteryOaksBilly
Junior Member

USA
115 Posts

Posted - November 10 2017 :  6:04:46 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I have a Shockwave and there are at least 4 more here on the range. I just can't shoot it the way Clint does. His arms must be WAY longer than mine. I just can't get it up and in line without being too close to my face. I'm going to keep it and do as others have suggested, use it for indoors. I'm going to look for a 20 gauge one for sure. I have a 12 inch Stevens 311 SBS. I shoot it better than almost any shotgun I have ever owned. Which ain't sayin much! My pals like to take me bird hunting, I keep'em flying. I'm too handgun-rifle oriented to be successful with a shotgun. PLUS, they hurt my old bones.

Billy Bruton..Carry every step..Shoot every day!
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LittleBill
Advanced Member

4311 Posts

Posted - November 11 2017 :  6:17:57 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
A laser on the Shockwave would be handy.


"Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at its testing point"--- C.S. Lewis

"There are some ideas so foolish that only an intellectual could believe them"--- George Orwell

Slow Is Smooth, Smooth Is Fast
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zeke
Junior Member

248 Posts

Posted - November 11 2017 :  11:57:22 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Bought the shockwave, and need to bring head down to it to point shoot it. It's main advantage may be a pistol grip doesn't jut out. Am much more familiar with a houge pistol grip, which for me is a natural pointer held mid level. Also think a laser would be beneficial. Up here a possible disadvantage would be educating someone about the legality of it if ever had to use it. The place I bought it from calls it a pistol on the sticker, and hope others don't buy it with intent of carrying it concealed.
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jle3030
Advanced Member

USA
4974 Posts

Posted - November 12 2017 :  09:16:45 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I've read that concealing or modifying the gun in any way voids its legality as an AOW. Would that include add-ons? Laser? Red dot? White light? Tritium or fiber optic sight? Sling?

Jeff

jle3030
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LittleBill
Advanced Member

4311 Posts

Posted - November 12 2017 :  09:33:00 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Mossberg on their website has the letter they received from the ATF, officially informing them that the Shockwave did not fall under NFA restrictions.

My understanding— I could be wrong— is that as long as you don’t carry it concealed, or modify it with a stock that allows it to be fired from the shoulder, or modify it in a way that reduces its OAL below 26”, it’s legal. All of the mods Jeff mentions would be OK.


"Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at its testing point"--- C.S. Lewis

"There are some ideas so foolish that only an intellectual could believe them"--- George Orwell

Slow Is Smooth, Smooth Is Fast

Edited by - LittleBill on November 12 2017 09:33:37 AM
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LittleBill
Advanced Member

4311 Posts

Posted - November 12 2017 :  09:42:50 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by zeke

Bought the shockwave, and need to bring head down to it to point shoot it. It's main advantage may be a pistol grip doesn't jut out. Am much more familiar with a houge pistol grip, which for me is a natural pointer held mid level. Also think a laser would be beneficial. Up here a possible disadvantage would be educating someone about the legality of it if ever had to use it. The place I bought it from calls it a pistol on the sticker, and hope others don't buy it with intent of carrying it concealed.


Yeah, being legal is one thing, avoiding arrest by a well-meaning LEO who doesn’t realize it’s legal, is another thing entirely. You’d eventually get off, but you might have to go through some unpleasantness in the process, including having it confiscated, and spending some time behind bars, and some money on a lawyer, before it all got straightened out.

Is it worth the risk? Only you can be the judge of that.

In terms of ‘raw stopping power’ in a compact, handy package, it seems hard to beat.

Regarding the grip, it’s my understanding that the ‘traditional’ pistol grips that are angled 90-degrees in relation to the stock, tend to make the barrel flip upward under recoil, due to the angle; whereas the more ‘straight back’ angle of the birdshead grip of the Shockwave and Tac-14 tends to direct recoil more in a straight-backwards direction.


"Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at its testing point"--- C.S. Lewis

"There are some ideas so foolish that only an intellectual could believe them"--- George Orwell

Slow Is Smooth, Smooth Is Fast

Edited by - LittleBill on November 12 2017 10:00:22 AM
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LittleBill
Advanced Member

4311 Posts

Posted - November 12 2017 :  10:59:23 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Especially if you live in a jurisdiction where the authorities are anti-gun.


"Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at its testing point"--- C.S. Lewis

"There are some ideas so foolish that only an intellectual could believe them"--- George Orwell

Slow Is Smooth, Smooth Is Fast
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LittleBill
Advanced Member

4311 Posts

Posted - November 12 2017 :  11:01:28 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by gw

quote:
Originally posted by LittleBill

quote:
Originally posted by zeke

Bought the shockwave, and need to bring head down to it to point shoot it. It's main advantage may be a pistol grip doesn't jut out. Am much more familiar with a houge pistol grip, which for me is a natural pointer held mid level. Also think a laser would be beneficial. Up here a possible disadvantage would be educating someone about the legality of it if ever had to use it. The place I bought it from calls it a pistol on the sticker, and hope others don't buy it with intent of carrying it concealed.


Yeah, being legal is one thing, avoiding arrest by a well-meaning LEO who doesn’t realize it’s legal, is another thing entirely. You’d eventually get off, but you might have to go through some unpleasantness in the process, including having it confiscated, and spending some time behind bars, and some money on a lawyer, before it all got straightened out.

Is it worth the risk? Only you can be the judge of that.

In terms of ‘raw stopping power’ in a compact, handy package, it seems hard to beat.





honestly, I bought the the TAC-14 with visions of going through the process of making one into a legal registered SBS and adding a stock.

after thinking it over, I'm not sure I want to argue the legality of it or explain to a jury why It's no big deal if I would use it.

when you consider that the original intent of the 18 inch barrel restriction was to prevent shotguns from being made into handguns once the Government banned handguns back in '34, these weapons don't meet the spirit of the '34 law.

I'm surprised the ATF came up with this decision and wonder if it won't be another "bump stock" issue if and when one of the things is used illegally

in the future you might be in posession of something that is no longer legal to own

a sort of dumb friend of mine inherited an old shotgun that was cut down before the Destructive Weapons law was thought of.

he took it to the Sherriffs office to find out if was legal. he was arrested, charged and convicted of possesion of an illegal weapon. got ten years (suspended), a $10,000 fine, and is a convicted felon unable to own any firearms.

they aren't playing around with short barreled shotguns around here..


That sucks, I’m guessing that if he’d had a good lawyer, the outcome would have been very different. Assuming that that’s all that was involved, no way that what they did to him was right or legal. A good lawyer would have been able to prevent it, or appeal.

It wouldn’t be cheap, but I’d prefer a high legal bill to a felony conviction any day.


"Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at its testing point"--- C.S. Lewis

"There are some ideas so foolish that only an intellectual could believe them"--- George Orwell

Slow Is Smooth, Smooth Is Fast

Edited by - LittleBill on November 12 2017 11:05:49 AM
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Jim Higginbotham
Moderator

USA
9411 Posts

Posted - November 14 2017 :  08:46:20 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by gw

I had a soldier in NC caught by the Sherriff with a pistol grib only shotgun in his back seat.

the ATF was called to look at it

the gun had been dropped and a chunk broke off the grip. the ATF measured the gun to the chip, the gun was a QUARTER INCH too short, the soldier was charged.

the shockwave is ONE HALF INCH from illegal, I would be careful modifying one....



The key here is that it is illegal to modify an existing shotgun by cutting the barrel to less than 18" or the stock to where the OAL is less than 26". Unless of course you pay the NFA tax and get it approved first.

The Shockwave and the Remington version did not start life as a shotgun but were listed as a "firearm" on the manufacturers report to the ATF.

Same is true of ARs - it is illegal to put a "short barrel" less than 16" on one if it was sold as a rifle - however if you buy an AR pistol receiver or you buy a bare receiver and fill out the 4473 as a handgun receiver then you can stick any barrel you want on it - but you cannot put a stock on it unless you register it as an SBR.

Onward

Jim

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BatteryOaksBilly
Junior Member

USA
115 Posts

Posted - November 19 2017 :  12:56:24 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I installed a rail and laser on my Shockwave yesterday. Finally getting good results. Best $40 I have spent lately.

Billy Bruton..Carry every step..Shoot every day!
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LittleBill
Advanced Member

4311 Posts

Posted - November 19 2017 :  2:40:11 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Which rail and laser did you choose?


"Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at its testing point"--- C.S. Lewis

"There are some ideas so foolish that only an intellectual could believe them"--- George Orwell

Slow Is Smooth, Smooth Is Fast
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BatteryOaksBilly
Junior Member

USA
115 Posts

Posted - November 19 2017 :  6:54:53 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The one made for the Mossberg 500-590 series by NC Star MSHRCVMOS $7.50 and a BEILESHI 20 MM Red dot $14.95. Actually $22.50 in hand. Glad I went back and looked. I'm even happier now. My ordering folks are on the ball!!!

Billy Bruton..Carry every step..Shoot every day!
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LittleBill
Advanced Member

4311 Posts

Posted - November 19 2017 :  9:12:22 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks!

Please keep us informed about how you’re liking it.


"Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at its testing point"--- C.S. Lewis

"There are some ideas so foolish that only an intellectual could believe them"--- George Orwell

Slow Is Smooth, Smooth Is Fast

Edited by - LittleBill on November 19 2017 9:20:29 PM
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Ace
Advanced Member

USA
5020 Posts

Posted - November 19 2017 :  9:35:11 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Two things here, 1)In this neck of the woods, NcStar is highly frowned upon and ridiculed; I have a couple of SKS's with their 4x and 2-6x scopes, they hold zero and do the job, even if they're not as 'crisp' as, say, a Leupold, and I'm gonna keep them, and 2)I'm sad to report the boss ordered a Shockwave for the store, probably because it's new; I'm highly unimpressed. Ace

Give me $1 every time a Liberal lies, I'll give you $5 every time one tells the truth; I'll end up a wealthy man, you'll end up broke.
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LittleBill
Advanced Member

4311 Posts

Posted - November 19 2017 :  9:41:51 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Ace, don’t you appreciate the ‘handiness’ of the Shockwave?


"Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at its testing point"--- C.S. Lewis

"There are some ideas so foolish that only an intellectual could believe them"--- George Orwell

Slow Is Smooth, Smooth Is Fast
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BatteryOaksBilly
Junior Member

USA
115 Posts

Posted - November 20 2017 :  09:14:55 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
As to the NC Star, this is my first one. There will be no crispness issue because it is a laser only. If it holds zero on this cannon that will be shot from high waist and underarm it will certainly be worth the $14.95. We had 3 on the range here yesterday and ALL are ordering this setup. My gun is an Asylum Armory Mossberg. They were doing this before Mossberg got in the game. My gun came with paperwork that was OKd by ATF October 2016. Well ahead of Mossberg shipping any. The others here are Mossbergs. I really wanted to like this gun but it has been a challenge for me. I have short arms so the Clint Smith You Tube instructional was not working for me. I hope this laser set up will work out. My first time with a laser, but this thing will put slugs on a 8 inch plate at 10 yards held at the waist. That is a great improvement over past results. In the end its just a few dollars to see if it works, if any part of the system goes belly-up, I'll just upgrade. So far it's working here.

Billy Bruton..Carry every step..Shoot every day!
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LittleBill
Advanced Member

4311 Posts

Posted - November 20 2017 :  12:12:58 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Does the laser have an on-off switch, or do you have to keep pressing the switch to keep it on?

Since the Shockwave can't be fired from the shoulder, and is tricky to line up with your line of vision unless you have long arms, it benefits from a laser more than most.


"Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at its testing point"--- C.S. Lewis

"There are some ideas so foolish that only an intellectual could believe them"--- George Orwell

Slow Is Smooth, Smooth Is Fast

Edited by - LittleBill on November 20 2017 12:16:19 PM
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Ace
Advanced Member

USA
5020 Posts

Posted - November 20 2017 :  2:25:53 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
After more 'hands-on' research, it does seem the Shockwave could make a good club. Seems like a lot to pay, when I could just to cut a branch off the oak tree in the front yard. Ace

Give me $1 every time a Liberal lies, I'll give you $5 every time one tells the truth; I'll end up a wealthy man, you'll end up broke.
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LittleBill
Advanced Member

4311 Posts

Posted - November 20 2017 :  3:53:38 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Sure; but does the branch have a place to mount a laser?


"Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at its testing point"--- C.S. Lewis

"There are some ideas so foolish that only an intellectual could believe them"--- George Orwell

Slow Is Smooth, Smooth Is Fast

Edited by - LittleBill on November 20 2017 3:54:15 PM
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