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Arvinator
Advanced Member

USA
5244 Posts

Posted - November 07 2017 :  08:32:13 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'm a difficult person to myself at times my wife once told me. She's right. I'm always thinking and asking myself what I need to do better or different. Not an insult from the Mrs., she's my biggest supporter and she knows I always focus on what's best & safest for our family. I may not carry the same gun everyday, but my habit, memory, and range time I can reach for the same place on my hip, and in a pocket and produce a loaded means to hopefully stop evil. A "Third option" is often worn in jacket weather, so yeah I like cool/cold weather.

Going for a oil change in the wife's vehicle I'll have my 38 snub with C/T laser grips in the pocket, S&W Shield single stack .45 in my waist ( Hides so well and been very reliable) and a Glock 19 in a shoulder holster. YES, reloads for each will be on my person.

Be honest, fair, and always prepared...

Ace
Advanced Member

USA
5020 Posts

Posted - November 07 2017 :  10:05:41 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
In Branson for a few days, at a cousin reunion. Kinda under-armed. Springfield XD on the belt and a .38 in a pocket. Somehow I forgot a rifle for the car, dunno how that happened. Got a second, loaded XD in the travel bag, in case I decide to carry 'Two Gun Pete', or if I get involved in a social situation and the cops take my gun. Plenty of reloads for each, unless the social thing gets too rowdy. Ace

Give me $1 every time a Liberal lies, I'll give you $5 every time one tells the truth; I'll end up a wealthy man, you'll end up broke.
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Pop Pop
Senior Member

USA
661 Posts

Posted - November 07 2017 :  10:35:58 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Arv, I live with my 7 shot 357 mag revolver. When awake, it is in my pocket, especially at home, where I had a bad experience, while walking to the mail box, about 5 years ago. I was so thankful I had the gun in my pocket and am convinced, for sure, that was all that kept me from taking the beating my neighbor, later that morning, took from these 3 drugged young thugs(27"ish). My legally blind 81 year old neighbor passed away 4 weeks after he took his beating. When asleep it is on my nightstand along with a couple others.

In my heart, I know that beating would have been on me had I not stood my ground, and faced down 3 drugged thugs, in my front yard that morning. The only reason the lead guy stopped is I reached in my pocket with the intention of shooting had he not immediately stopped. His buddy stopped him and told him it was not worth getting shot over. I thanked God, that I had the revolver, and the mindset to use it on that morning. I am too old for beatings any more.

Not bragging here, just very thankful things turned out the way they did with my encounter.

Like you, although I don't rotate different guns, do carry the same 2 guns most of the time, and sometimes one third pistol( single stack Kahr P 9)inside my waistband also when attending our church. I must be very careful which gun I choose because I have diabetic neuropathy in my hands and limp wrist without knowing it. I have only found 2 pistols, the Kahr P 9 and my Glock 19 that will trust to be reliable when I limp wrist.

Arv, how many rounds does your Shield hold , and do you load the mag fully, with one in the chamber? I have this thing with pistols, I most always leave one round short in the magazine of a high round mag(13 to 15). On my Kahr I carry it full with one in the pipe(8). It has never failed to cycle in that manner.

Be safe Arv. You are wise.

Edited to add; Be safe Ace, I like Branson. Drove over to Eureka Springs, Arkansas while there. Beautiful little Ozark Mountain town. Atrsy Crafty place with a lot of modern day hippies. People watching was great.

Pop Pop

Edited by - Pop Pop on November 07 2017 10:49:25 AM
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Arvinator
Advanced Member

USA
5244 Posts

Posted - November 07 2017 :  6:22:21 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Pop Pop, I know I'll catch some comments but on my single stack pistols I carry one round down, on double stack I carry 2 rounds down. I NEVER have had a malfunction in 27 years doing this, but when I have had mags fully loaded I HAVE and have seen multiple. a few to name have been my Glock 17, S&W 645, Glock 19, to my .45 Shield with 5+1 from the holster, then the plus one factory mags are 6, total 18 rounds or 185 Critical Defense with 13+1 in the 19, or 15+1 in the Glock 17. If I think my mags need that round, I'm grabbing a shot gun or rifle. I'll also call for a couple of gusy with rifles I know & trust to back me up.
My AR-15 mags are loaded with 25 rds each and I left ten (10) mags loaded for 10 years as a test and they all ran fine.
I've been laughed at but then saw the ones laughing have some type of problem from failure to seat a mag to a bone dry firearm.
Let the haters hate....

Be honest, fair, and always prepared...
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Arvinator
Advanced Member

USA
5244 Posts

Posted - November 07 2017 :  7:47:23 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I forgot to add, those 18 rounds for ONE gun only. Had 69 doses of felon repellent on my person today...

Be honest, fair, and always prepared...
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BatteryOaksBilly
Junior Member

USA
115 Posts

Posted - November 08 2017 :  06:15:48 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Leaving for work at 6:30 and as always will have 2 guns on me. This thanks to a letter from Evan in the mid 80s. My 2 have changed a few times since I started the double carry thing. First 2 Js then 2 KT 9s, then 2 Taurus Views, then 2 G43s. Now the smallest lightest yet of the autos, 2 Kahr CM40s. Thanks to some good advice 30 years ago, always 2. Never carried 2 because of capacity but because of Murphy. Also never carried because of the odds of something happening, always because of the possibility of something happening.

Billy Bruton..Carry every step..Shoot every day!
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Jim Higginbotham
Moderator

USA
9411 Posts

Posted - November 08 2017 :  09:28:21 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Everybody has to work out their own salvation and no one will get any flak from me whatever they choose - mind you I'm pretty free with opinions but it is discussion, not criticism.

I'm pretty boring - when I think back my carry habits have been stuck in a fairly consistent rut for over 30 years with perhaps just a few changes in my BUG or my Hideout(s).

I do make a change for the cool weather months from a second 1911 to an N-frame S&W in .44 or .45 Caliber (the .45 being either Auto or Auto Rim more often than not but I do love the .45 Colt as well). I will likely do that today or tomorrow as deer season opens this Saturday. 99% chance it will be a 5" 1955 Target .45 AutoRim.

The primary has been the same for 40 years - 5" 1911. I simply shoot it better than any other handgun and see no reason to accept something I don't shoot better.

Jim H.

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Chris Christian
Advanced Member

USA
2917 Posts

Posted - November 08 2017 :  11:03:05 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Ace, your not alone in downloading mags. I'm one round down in single stacks and two rounds down in double stacks. 30 round ARs get 28 and 20 rounders get 18.

I figure if those rounds haven't finished things by the time I get to slide lock, I should have made a 'speed reload' earlier

On the other hand, I don't download revolvers

Chris Christian
There are those who make things happen. There are those who watch things happen. There are those who wonder What The Heck happened! Pick one.

Edited by - Chris Christian on November 08 2017 11:04:01 AM
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Badge
Advanced Member

USA
1647 Posts

Posted - November 08 2017 :  11:38:48 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
We all have our ways and manners of carrying what we want and how we want. All I ever say to folks is KNOW what you have and how it works as a good plan is exactly that until something doesn't go as planned. I absolutely cringe when I hear, " my carry rotation ". That can mean many things but in this humble members opinion we must train on what we carry and stick to that. It's too easy under stress to fumble or be unsure on an unfamiliar weapon. This is in no way directed at or towards anyone here. I know you all know better.

MSS
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Chris Christian
Advanced Member

USA
2917 Posts

Posted - November 08 2017 :  12:07:31 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Badge

We all have our ways and manners of carrying what we want and how we want. All I ever say to folks is KNOW what you have and how it works as a good plan is exactly that until something doesn't go as planned. I absolutely cringe when I hear, " my carry rotation ". That can mean many things but in this humble members opinion we must train on what we carry and stick to that. It's too easy under stress to fumble or be unsure on an unfamiliar weapon. This is in no way directed at or towards anyone here. I know you all know better.



+1!. "Carry rotation" makes no sense to me either. I have 2 M&P 9mms and 1 .45 that I put about 12,000 rounds a year through in practice and competition. My EDC is a M&P 9c, with full-sized magazines (17 rounds downloaded to 15) and ALL operate the same.

Second guns are .38 snubs, but they work the same way as my competition Ruger GP-100 revolvers, so there's not much difference there either.

I do have a Glock 29 10mm I sometimes tote in the woods, but it's also a 'pull/point/shoot' gun.

Chris Christian
There are those who make things happen. There are those who watch things happen. There are those who wonder What The Heck happened! Pick one.
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gw
Advanced Member

3979 Posts

Posted - November 08 2017 :  1:08:52 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
"carry rotation" to me sounds like I'm playing with guns, and don't train or shoot any of them really

if that's not the case and a person is spending the time to learn them all, then more power to them

I do know very knowledgable instructors that change guns to match what is being trained with in their class that week and they feel no pain

the ability of some of those guys to pick up any gun and perform is remarkable

Small weapons guys in the SF outfits that can pick up any countries military issue, field strip and reassemble while telling you all the weapons characteristics are my hero

"Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not..."

Edited by - gw on November 08 2017 1:12:13 PM
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BatteryOaksBilly
Junior Member

USA
115 Posts

Posted - November 08 2017 :  3:52:07 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
My ultimate goal is to use whatever guns I am carrying, like I carry them, and shoot the Hackathorn Wizard Drill clean from "cold". I have a unique situation in that I can do that every day. I do. Sometime I do other stuff, but always that one. It is hard enough to do "cold" that it still tries me. My carries do change, not in a rotation but as I please. My goal today is the same as all my life...to shoot well with anything I pick up.
My tag is the absolute truth...carry every step, shoot every day...with whatever I am carrying.

Billy Bruton..Carry every step..Shoot every day!
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Chris Christian
Advanced Member

USA
2917 Posts

Posted - November 08 2017 :  4:03:17 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by BatteryOaksBilly

My ultimate goal is to use whatever guns I am carrying, like I carry them, and shoot the Hackathorn Wizard Drill clean from "cold". I have a unique situation in that I can do that every day. I do. Sometime I do other stuff, but always that one. It is hard enough to do "cold" that it still tries me. My carries do change, not in a rotation but as I please. My goal today is the same as all my life...to shoot well with anything I pick up.
My tag is the absolute truth...carry every step, shoot every day...with whatever I am carrying.




One of the drills I like to shoot periodically.... and with my normal carry gun and wardrobe (which is a M&P 9c under a large untucked tee-shirt)... is the Federal Air Marshal qualification course. You need a timer because all times are 'par'. Miss a par time and you flunk: regardless of your target hits. I'm sure there may be other, maybe better, drills. But shooting this with your 'street gun' and in your 'street clothes' can be a challenge.

Chris Christian
There are those who make things happen. There are those who watch things happen. There are those who wonder What The Heck happened! Pick one.

Edited by - Chris Christian on November 08 2017 4:04:22 PM
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BatteryOaksBilly
Junior Member

USA
115 Posts

Posted - November 08 2017 :  4:22:26 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks Chris. The reason I lean toward the Wizard is because it only requires 5 rounds. I can do it no matter the weather and get back inside. Like today 50 and raining.

Billy Bruton..Carry every step..Shoot every day!
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Ace
Advanced Member

USA
5020 Posts

Posted - November 08 2017 :  5:03:35 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Chris,two things:
One, Arv is the one talking about downloading mags. I load mine to the brim, and let everybody else do what they want. Anybody who downloads is different than me, but I'd certainly welcome their help in a social situation.
Two, a guy came into the store a while back to look for a holster, and when he unloaded his five-shooter, there were only four rounds in it. He said carrying a round under the hammer was dangerous, so he'd just handle any trouble with the four. He hasn't been back; I don't think he liked my attitude. Ace

Give me $1 every time a Liberal lies, I'll give you $5 every time one tells the truth; I'll end up a wealthy man, you'll end up broke.
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Chris Christian
Advanced Member

USA
2917 Posts

Posted - November 08 2017 :  6:06:15 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ace

Chris,two things:
One, Arv is the one talking about downloading mags. I load mine to the brim, and let everybody else do what they want. Anybody who downloads is different than me, but I'd certainly welcome their help in a social situation.
Two, a guy came into the store a while back to look for a holster, and when he unloaded his five-shooter, there were only four rounds in it. He said carrying a round under the hammer was dangerous, so he'd just handle any trouble with the four. He hasn't been back; I don't think he liked my attitude. Ace



Ace, thanks for the correction. I'm not immune to "old timer's moments"

Chris Christian
There are those who make things happen. There are those who watch things happen. There are those who wonder What The Heck happened! Pick one.
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gw
Advanced Member

3979 Posts

Posted - November 09 2017 :  08:45:05 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by BatteryOaksBilly

Thanks Chris. The reason I lean toward the Wizard is because it only requires 5 rounds. I can do it no matter the weather and get back inside. Like today 50 and raining.



for me, the take away from the Wizard drill is the insistance you must use carry ammo

with range ammo or +p .38 I can consistantly peform with my .357 snub nose

load up real .357 ammo, and it ain't so easy.....

back to the drawing board

"Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not..."
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Jim Higginbotham
Moderator

USA
9411 Posts

Posted - November 09 2017 :  09:33:40 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Chris Christian

quote:
Originally posted by BatteryOaksBilly

My ultimate goal is to use whatever guns I am carrying, like I carry them, and shoot the Hackathorn Wizard Drill clean from "cold". I have a unique situation in that I can do that every day. I do. Sometime I do other stuff, but always that one. It is hard enough to do "cold" that it still tries me. My carries do change, not in a rotation but as I please. My goal today is the same as all my life...to shoot well with anything I pick up.
My tag is the absolute truth...carry every step, shoot every day...with whatever I am carrying.




In your case I'm sure you are referring to the *old* Air Marshall's test. That is definitely a decent test.

They sorta dumbed the new one down a lot - because not many applicants could pass the old one even after training.

Jim

Jim

One of the drills I like to shoot periodically.... and with my normal carry gun and wardrobe (which is a M&P 9c under a large untucked tee-shirt)... is the Federal Air Marshal qualification course. You need a timer because all times are 'par'. Miss a par time and you flunk: regardless of your target hits. I'm sure there may be other, maybe better, drills. But shooting this with your 'street gun' and in your 'street clothes' can be a challenge.


Get the Weaponcraft Journal on Amazon: Print or Kindle!
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Chris Christian
Advanced Member

USA
2917 Posts

Posted - November 09 2017 :  10:36:49 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Jim,
I'm not sure if the one I have is the old or new. But it's from about
2009/2010. And, yes, it is challenging! You can't hesitate or dwaddle for even a split second.... just like in the Real World.

What I like about it is that gun handling from concealed carry is stressed more than pin point accuracy. The targets on the FAM course I have are all at 7 yards, with scoring zones generous enough that some sort of instinctive point shooting/just find the front sight can work. Not many of the people I've shot it with flunk it on the target score...it's the par times that dump them.

But, those gun handling skills are critical in close range SD situations.I consider it very good "practice".... especially when you are shooting it with full-power ammo, your normal carry gun, and in your normal carry wardrobe and carry gear.

Chris Christian
There are those who make things happen. There are those who watch things happen. There are those who wonder What The Heck happened! Pick one.
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bandaidman
Advanced Member

USA
1298 Posts

Posted - November 10 2017 :  12:12:39 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
My carry rotation is do I put my XD 9 (green grip) in my stong side or do put my mod 2 XD9( grey grip)in it's place. gotta be color coordinated ya know . I don't have a pocket revolver mainly because I can't find a pre lock S&W, and with the way my back has been acting I'm lucky to be walking around anywhere.

“If for a while the harder you try, the harder it gets, take heart. So it has been with the best people who ever lived.
Jeffery Holland
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