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 21s vs. 36s
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Russ Larges
Moderator

USA
2214 Posts

Posted - October 29 2017 :  3:59:34 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I am still on the hunt for a .45acp. Today I handled both the 21 and the 36, I know that the 36 has had a bad rep or at least some troubles with the magazine, I think, is it cleared up?
I did not feel the grip size on the 21 was overly big, I have very large hands but shorter fingers. The 21 did not feel any larger then the 1911s I have been looking at, just shaped different.
I doubt the 36 is really in the running as the S&W shield is much cheaper and does the job just as well.
This .45 will be a range gun with very little carry mode but I wonder if shooting the 1911 with the safety would detract from or confuse (well I am confused most of the time anyway ) the use of my main carry which is the G19. Any thoughts on this would help.
Russ

The pistol, learn it well, carry it allways. Jeff Cooper

Chris Christian
Advanced Member

USA
2936 Posts

Posted - October 29 2017 :  5:20:12 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Russ Larges

I am still on the hunt for a .45acp. Today I handled both the 21 and the 36, I know that the 36 has had a bad rep or at least some troubles with the magazine, I think, is it cleared up?
I did not feel the grip size on the 21 was overly big, I have very large hands but shorter fingers. The 21 did not feel any larger then the 1911s I have been looking at, just shaped different.
I doubt the 36 is really in the running as the S&W shield is much cheaper and does the job just as well.
This .45 will be a range gun with very little carry mode but I wonder if shooting the 1911 with the safety would detract from or confuse (well I am confused most of the time anyway ) the use of my main carry which is the G19. Any thoughts on this would help.
Russ



Just MHO, but if your carry gun is a 'pull, point, and shoot' like the G19... then guns with similar operating features (like the M&Ps) would be a wise idea. In the heat of the moment I would not want to be grabbing a holstered gun and then wondering "OK, which dohicky does what?"

Just my thoughts.

Chris Christian
There are those who make things happen. There are those who watch things happen. There are those who wonder What The Heck happened! Pick one.
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Dov
Advanced Member

USA
2638 Posts

Posted - October 30 2017 :  01:03:14 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I think in general keeping same manual of arms is a good idea like Chris suggests.

For people that started early or spent long time with 1911 I doubt they'd have issues with adding a non manual safety gun.

Though I've only owned one 1911 of my own, the first handgun I got to shot much was an uncle's 1911

I never had problem with safety on 1911 when I added it to my collection of S&W revolvers & Glocks. I did have problems with the tight match chamber the 1911 had so traded it off.

I will say as someone who has both 9mm & 10mm Glocks that if starting over I'd probably have Glock in one caliber and S&W M&P pistol in other caliber.

At least for me it's easy to mistake a 10mm Glock mag for a 9mm Glock mag if they are similar length.

It's clear side by side or if you look close at ammo or markings, but when grabbing them from range bag or drawer it's easy to mistake wihich one you have.

Wrongs ones won't lock in place, but not something I want to happen if gun is really needed. It's frustrating and puzzling trying to get 10mm mag in a G19

For me at least difference between plastic a Glock mag & metal M&P mag would prevent that issue.
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Ten Driver
Advanced Member

1683 Posts

Posted - October 30 2017 :  01:57:03 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Russ, I'm curious . . . was the 21 you held the "Short Frame" or SF version? That might make a difference.

I too, would like to know if the 36 got cured. I know I developed an early dislike of it, based on the experiences of forum members here. I hope it got fixed and is a good design now, but don't know.

The 30S looks like an interesting gun, if you haven't seen that one.

Mike
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Jim Higginbotham
Moderator

USA
9431 Posts

Posted - October 30 2017 :  08:13:19 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
And all along I thought Glock was being honest and SF meant "Still Fat"

I have a student who broke 2 G30s in one week, one of them broke twice (making 3 times the guns went down in 7 days).

The 36 is just a 30 with a slimmer frame and slightly slimmer slide. Even with small hands I find the 36 is too short (top to bottom) and causes me to pinch my had on reloads. If they made a Commander size one without the double spring I'd buy one.

It is that captured double spring and the slide lock (that thing that keeps the slide on not the slide stop) that seems to break most often. The first 27 I ever saw belonged to a cop who carried it as a BUG or carried it off duty. He showed it to me and I took it apart and told him "You realize this is broke right?"

I asked how many rounds he had through it and he said about 200.

The Gen IVs have a similar setup but they beefed it up a bit - they might have done the same improvement on the later sub-compacts but I don't know.

21s seem solid as do 41s but both are too big for my stubby little fingers. My 41 is both reliable and accurate but I cannot shoot it fast - not the gun's fault but the way my hands work.

Now that I will no longer be going to any academies I will try to slim down my 41 and install a thumb safety which is a requirement for me - I've run across too many folks who have shot themselves with Glocks without having a finger on the trigger (the usual culprit is a shirt tail).

Just Ramblin'

Jim

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pochis
New Member

USA
68 Posts

Posted - October 30 2017 :  09:40:33 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
lets not forget ammo capacity when talking 30 series, the 30s is a great piece and 10 rds the 36 six rds to me is a selling point. I like more. the 21 makes a great range gun, woods gun or bedside, would not be crazy about carry. that's just me and some ideas.
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gw
Advanced Member

3983 Posts

Posted - October 30 2017 :  10:24:21 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
the G30s was developed for the LAPD SIS unit, these guys might not know everything, but they got alot of street time with handguns.

one thing they prefer is .45s, the other is Glocks

they got tired of sitting on the G21 day and night during stake outs but liked the concept of a lightweight high capacity .45

an advantage to the G30 for them was it worked with the 13 round G21 magazine but was easier to carry

they also think the shorter stiffer slide is more accurate with less muzzle flip

I don't have a dog in the hunt, but LAPD seems to have good points on the subject of street use of .45s

"Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not..."
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Evan
Administrator

34114 Posts

Posted - October 30 2017 :  11:21:50 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
If only PD's would tell the truth! Unfortunately ego and image are generally more important than officer safety.

When we had the shop both an employee's and customers Glock 36 took a dump at 200+ rounds of fmj. I massaged Glock a bit and got both of them new Model 30's in exchange for their broken M 36's. Neither reported any issue's with the Model 30's

"The greatest thing a Father can do for his children is to love their Mother."

Harold B. Lee

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Russ Larges
Moderator

USA
2214 Posts

Posted - October 30 2017 :  7:54:28 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ten Driver

Russ, I'm curious . . . was the 21 you held the "Short Frame" or SF version? That might make a difference.

I too, would like to know if the 36 got cured. I know I developed an early dislike of it, based on the experiences of forum members here. I hope it got fixed and is a good design now, but don't know.

The 30S looks like an interesting gun, if you haven't seen that one.

Mike



No, it was not the SF but the regular frame.
Russ


The pistol, learn it well, carry it allways. Jeff Cooper
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BatteryOaksBilly
Junior Member

USA
125 Posts

Posted - November 01 2017 :  2:20:14 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I put a 36 top end on a 30sf lower. It sure "feels" a lot slimmer than it was. So far workie-workie.

Billy Bruton..Carry every step..Shoot every day!
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Ten Driver
Advanced Member

1683 Posts

Posted - November 02 2017 :  11:58:43 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Well, you just made a 30s! That's how LAPD SIS started doing it, too.
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