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Ten Driver
Advanced Member

1683 Posts

Posted - September 02 2017 :  03:02:56 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks Pop Pop! I must confess to not owning any guns with fiber optics. I've shot some, but never warmed up to them very much. Maybe this would be something good for us to do a story on.

Regarding retrofitting your gun, I'm not sure of the make or model, but both S&W and Ruger are offering guns with fiiber optic sights now, so maybe you can get a factory fiber optic part to replace your existing sights with?

Jeff, you said it very well! There's just something about the older revolvers that's special.

GW, I don't mean to sound disagreeable, but I find that I'm more disappointed than impressed with the quality of the new production revolvers these days. I don't think I'm being sentimental, either. Fit, finish, trigger quality, materials--these rarely seem better than what we had been accustomed to in the past, at least in the revolver market.

Mike
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LittleBill
Advanced Member

4363 Posts

Posted - September 02 2017 :  1:47:13 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I really like the Truglo TFO sights: a fiber-optic cylinder combined with a tritium insert.

The fiber optic 'picks up' the sunlight during the daylight hours, and the tritium 'automatically' kicks in as the natural light fades.

I've found them to provide good illumination under all lighting conditions. For a while I had 3 pistols sitting on the table by my reading chair: one with XS Big Dot, one with Meprolite green tritium front and rear, and one with the Truglo TFO.

I found the Truglo to provide the best sight picture across varying conditions of illumination. I favor the ones with dual yellow dots in the rear, and a green dot in the front: my eyes find it easiest to quickly pick up the front sight when it's a contrasting color to the rear pair.

The overall outline of the TFO sight picture is 'traditional notch-and-post': which for me provides the best potential for precision aiming.

I don't know what their availability is for use on revolvers.


"Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at its testing point"--- C.S. Lewis

"There are some ideas so foolish that only an intellectual could believe them"--- George Orwell

Slow Is Smooth, Smooth Is Fast

Edited by - LittleBill on September 02 2017 2:17:32 PM
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LittleBill
Advanced Member

4363 Posts

Posted - September 02 2017 :  2:09:25 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ten Driver

Thanks Pop Pop! I must confess to not owning any guns with fiber optics. I've shot some, but never warmed up to them very much. Maybe this would be something good for us to do a story on.

Regarding retrofitting your gun, I'm not sure of the make or model, but both S&W and Ruger are offering guns with fiiber optic sights now, so maybe you can get a factory fiber optic part to replace your existing sights with?

Jeff, you said it very well! There's just something about the older revolvers that's special.

GW, I don't mean to sound disagreeable, but I find that I'm more disappointed than impressed with the quality of the new production revolvers these days. I don't think I'm being sentimental, either. Fit, finish, trigger quality, materials--these rarely seem better than what we had been accustomed to in the past, at least in the revolver market.

Mike


My experience is not nearly as extensive as yours, but I'd have to agree: the differences between the old and the new are pretty striking.

I assume it's attributable to cost-cutting measures in the manufacturing process: since the range of available materials, and our knowledge base of how best to use them, have both been increasing, even as quality has been decreasing.

Surely they haven't forgotten the 'secret' to manufacturing a revolver to the high standards of yesteryear: they've just decided that it's not worth it to do so.


"Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at its testing point"--- C.S. Lewis

"There are some ideas so foolish that only an intellectual could believe them"--- George Orwell

Slow Is Smooth, Smooth Is Fast

Edited by - LittleBill on September 02 2017 2:10:22 PM
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LittleBill
Advanced Member

4363 Posts

Posted - September 02 2017 :  2:16:24 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Speaking of quality: does anyone have any experience with the Kimber K6?


"Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at its testing point"--- C.S. Lewis

"There are some ideas so foolish that only an intellectual could believe them"--- George Orwell

Slow Is Smooth, Smooth Is Fast

Edited by - LittleBill on September 02 2017 2:16:41 PM
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Ten Driver
Advanced Member

1683 Posts

Posted - September 02 2017 :  10:09:12 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by LittleBill

Surely they haven't forgotten the 'secret' to manufacturing a revolver to the high standards of yesteryear: they've just decided that it's not worth it to do so.





I think you nailed it, and it's a little of both, honestly.

There has definitely been a decision to embrace manufacturing methods that lower production costs and labor costs, such as CNC, MIM, etc. These have taken their toll on revolvers in a way that seems disproportionate, compared to the autos.

The connected part is that the talented pool of fitters and polishers just isn't there anymore, because there is little demand for these services outside of some gunsmithing operations. Today, factories employ "assemblers," for lack of a better word. They can take a stack of parts and make them into a gun, but they don't kiss them in the right place with a stone, or carefully polish them like they used to. They're not craftsmen, because they're not paid to be.

Even if a company wanted to spend the money to do these things, they would have to train a pool of people to do it, because they're just not out there in the numbers we used to have.

Revolver manufacture today seems like a collision between late 19th or early 20th century designs, and 21st century manufacturing techniques, and the result isn't appealing.

Regarding the new designs, I've seen some awful products in terms of fit and finish from Colt as of late, and some terrible QC failures from S&W that should have never made it out of the factory. Ruger seems to be producing the most consistently good product, but they're kinda rough.

The Kimber guves me hope. They seem to exhibit a higher standard of care in fit and finish, and are pretty smooth from what I've seen so far. I want to spend more time with them before I give them a thumbs up, but I'm hopeful. We'll see.

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Ten Driver
Advanced Member

1683 Posts

Posted - September 02 2017 :  10:11:23 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by LittleBill

Surely they haven't forgotten the 'secret' to manufacturing a revolver to the high standards of yesteryear: they've just decided that it's not worth it to do so.





I think you nailed it, and it's a little of both, honestly.

There has definitely been a decision to embrace manufacturing methods that lower production costs and labor costs, such as CNC, MIM, etc. These have taken their toll on revolvers in a way that seems disproportionate, compared to the autos.

The connected part is that the talented pool of fitters and polishers just isn't there anymore, because there is little demand for these services outside of some gunsmithing operations. Today, factories employ "assemblers," for lack of a better word. They can take a stack of parts and make them into a gun, but they don't kiss them in the right place with a stone, or carefully polish them like they used to. They're not craftsmen, because they're not paid to be.

Even if a company wanted to spend the money to do these things, they would have to train a pool of people to do it, because they're just not out there in the numbers we used to have.

Revolver manufacture today seems like a collision between late 19th or early 20th century designs, and 21st century manufacturing techniques, and the result isn't appealing.

Regarding the new designs, I've seen some awful products in terms of fit and finish from Colt as of late, and some terrible QC failures from S&W that should have never made it out of the factory. Ruger seems to be producing the most consistently good product, but they're kinda rough.

The Kimber guves me hope. They seem to exhibit a higher standard of care in fit and finish, and are pretty smooth from what I've seen so far. I want to spend more time with them before I give them a thumbs up, but I'm hopeful. We'll see.

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LittleBill
Advanced Member

4363 Posts

Posted - September 02 2017 :  10:30:33 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ten Driver

quote:
Originally posted by LittleBill

Surely they haven't forgotten the 'secret' to manufacturing a revolver to the high standards of yesteryear: they've just decided that it's not worth it to do so.





I think you nailed it, and it's a little of both, honestly.

There has definitely been a decision to embrace manufacturing methods that lower production costs and labor costs, such as CNC, MIM, etc. These have taken their toll on revolvers in a way that seems disproportionate, compared to the autos.

The connected part is that the talented pool of fitters and polishers just isn't there anymore, because there is little demand for these services outside of some gunsmithing operations. Today, factories employ "assemblers," for lack of a better word. They can take a stack of parts and make them into a gun, but they don't kiss them in the right place with a stone, or carefully polish them like they used to. They're not craftsmen, because they're not paid to be.

Even if a company wanted to spend the money to do these things, they would have to train a pool of people to do it, because they're just not out there in the numbers we used to have.

Revolver manufacture today seems like a collision between late 19th or early 20th century designs, and 21st century manufacturing techniques, and the result isn't appealing.

Regarding the new designs, I've seen some awful products in terms of fit and finish from Colt as of late, and some terrible QC failures from S&W that should have never made it out of the factory. Ruger seems to be producing the most consistently good product, but they're kinda rough.

The Kimber guves me hope. They seem to exhibit a higher standard of care in fit and finish, and are pretty smooth from what I've seen so far. I want to spend more time with them before I give them a thumbs up, but I'm hopeful. We'll see.




And I believe they have no MIM parts, or so I've read.

Love to hear your impressions.


"Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at its testing point"--- C.S. Lewis

"There are some ideas so foolish that only an intellectual could believe them"--- George Orwell

Slow Is Smooth, Smooth Is Fast
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LittleBill
Advanced Member

4363 Posts

Posted - September 03 2017 :  12:01:31 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Maybe Kimber figured out that there's a market for a high quality revolver. I too hope that's the case.

I see the 3" version of the K6S is just hitting Gunbroker.


"Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at its testing point"--- C.S. Lewis

"There are some ideas so foolish that only an intellectual could believe them"--- George Orwell

Slow Is Smooth, Smooth Is Fast

Edited by - LittleBill on September 03 2017 12:02:52 AM
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Ten Driver
Advanced Member

1683 Posts

Posted - September 04 2017 :  12:25:54 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Working on this as we speak, LB. I'll be sure to give you a heads up when I have something fit to print.

My only experience with the gun so far is shooting about 30 rounds through it at SHOT, which hardly qualifies me to say anything other than I was impressed enough to follow up on it.

Mike
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gw
Advanced Member

3983 Posts

Posted - September 04 2017 :  7:10:14 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by LittleBill

quote:
Originally posted by Ten Driver

Thanks Pop Pop! I must confess to not owning any guns with fiber optics. I've shot some, but never warmed up to them very much. Maybe this would be something good for us to do a story on.

Regarding retrofitting your gun, I'm not sure of the make or model, but both S&W and Ruger are offering guns with fiiber optic sights now, so maybe you can get a factory fiber optic part to replace your existing sights with?

Jeff, you said it very well! There's just something about the older revolvers that's special.

GW, I don't mean to sound disagreeable, but I find that I'm more disappointed than impressed with the quality of the new production revolvers these days. I don't think I'm being sentimental, either. Fit, finish, trigger quality, materials--these rarely seem better than what we had been accustomed to in the past, at least in the revolver market.

Mike


My experience is not nearly as extensive as yours, but I'd have to agree: the differences between the old and the new are pretty striking.

I assume it's attributable to cost-cutting measures in the manufacturing process: since the range of available materials, and our knowledge base of how best to use them, have both been increasing, even as quality has been decreasing.

Surely they haven't forgotten the 'secret' to manufacturing a revolver to the high standards of yesteryear: they've just decided that it's not worth it to do so.





If you think current production S&Ws are not equal to the Bangor Punta guns made back in the 70s we do disagree

The new CMC cut guns carry up, lock up,and are as durable as ever.

If they'd ever give up the stupid lock they'd have it together, otherwise the metallurgy and engineering improvements considered they are making as good a gun as ever

Edited by - gw on September 04 2017 7:12:14 PM
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Olddog84
Senior Member

USA
598 Posts

Posted - September 05 2017 :  10:55:46 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks for much for the new blog, it is bookmarked and I will come back frequently! I still keep a bunch of the good old revolvers on hand: S&W 29, 57, 24, 1950, 38/44, Python, Cobras, DS, etc. I don't carry them, the back problems make the polymer frame autos much easier to deal with, but if I had my druthers I sure would. I love to take them out and get some trigger time with them, it was in many ways a simpler and more elegant time. I totally concur that the guns of the post war through, say, mid 70's were so much better than what is being produced today. Since the revolvers are now fun guns for me, I would not pay a nickel for most of the stuff produced today. Keep up the great work!
Mike

"Somebody Tries to kill you, you try to kill 'em right back." Malcolm Reynolds
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Badge
Advanced Member

USA
1648 Posts

Posted - September 05 2017 :  11:14:06 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Excellent site friend. It's on my daily to do list.

MSS
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Ten Driver
Advanced Member

1683 Posts

Posted - September 06 2017 :  03:07:25 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks Gents! I'm glad you enjoy it! We've got lots of material on tap and look forward to seeing you back. Please spread the word!

Mike
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jle3030
Advanced Member

USA
4989 Posts

Posted - September 06 2017 :  08:24:09 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ten Driver

Thanks Gents! I'm glad you enjoy it! We've got lots of material on tap and look forward to seeing you back. Please spread the word!

Mike

You could probably get a lot of mileage by occasionally recycling accredited excerpts from Keith, Skelton, and a few others. I guarantee it would be totally new material to many younger readers.

There is a certain timeless appeal to revolvers and I feel much of the old lore is being lost. For example, it took me a while to figure out why my old 1915 Colt New Service with the British broad arrow proofs, originally in .455 Eley, has such a goshawful heavy DA trigger pull.

Jeff

jle3030
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LittleBill
Advanced Member

4363 Posts

Posted - September 06 2017 :  08:55:09 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by jle3030

quote:
Originally posted by Ten Driver

Thanks Gents! I'm glad you enjoy it! We've got lots of material on tap and look forward to seeing you back. Please spread the word!

Mike

You could probably get a lot of mileage by occasionally recycling accredited excerpts from Keith, Skelton, and a few others. I guarantee it would be totally new material to many younger readers.

There is a certain timeless appeal to revolvers and I feel much of the old lore is being lost. For example, it took me a while to figure out why my old 1915 Colt New Service with the British broad arrow proofs, originally in .455 Eley, has such a goshawful heavy DA trigger pull.

Jeff


+ 1

"Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at its testing point"--- C.S. Lewis

"There are some ideas so foolish that only an intellectual could believe them"--- George Orwell

Slow Is Smooth, Smooth Is Fast
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LittleBill
Advanced Member

4363 Posts

Posted - September 17 2017 :  11:35:36 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Got a chance to handle and dry-fire a Kimber K6S the other day. Nice little gun!

The trigger pull is somewhat different from other revolvers I'm familiar with. You can definitely feel what others have commented on, the way the cylinder lockup noticeably happens about 2/3 of the way through the trigger pull.

Because of this 'feature', in my short time messing with it, I found it easy to 'stage' my shots: bring it to that point, then pause until the sights were lined up and exert a small additional pressure to drop the hammer. Overall, the trigger impressed me as (relatively) short and light, and, except for that slight 'bump' upon cylinder lockup, smooth.

One downside I noticed: the model I was playing with had the factory Crimson Trace laser grips, and while the grip shape was OK, the way the laser activation button was situated on the grip didn't fit my hand well at all! When I took a 'natural' grip, my fingers didn't naturally hit the activation button: to activate the laser, I had to strain to bring my finger into contact with it. Awkward, not something I'd want to have to remember to do if I had to bring the gun into play fast.

Looking at the way my fingers fell on the grip, it seemed like that could be fixed with the addition of a pad on top of the activation button to bring it farther out. A lasergrip is handy to have on a snubbie.

All in all, a solid-feeling little 6-shot.

"Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at its testing point"--- C.S. Lewis

"There are some ideas so foolish that only an intellectual could believe them"--- George Orwell

Slow Is Smooth, Smooth Is Fast

Edited by - LittleBill on September 17 2017 11:40:45 AM
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Ten Driver
Advanced Member

1683 Posts

Posted - October 21 2017 :  11:44:03 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Latest article on RevolverGuy.com is about the Jordan holster, for all you gunleather guys! Enjoy!

Mike
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jle3030
Advanced Member

USA
4989 Posts

Posted - October 22 2017 :  08:59:39 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
That's probably the best article I've read on the Jordan holster.

Great word crafting in the first paragraph. The first sentence in particular reminded me of Louis L'Amour.

Jeff

jle3030
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Ten Driver
Advanced Member

1683 Posts

Posted - October 22 2017 :  09:16:37 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Ha! Thank you! I'm glad you enjoyed it.
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LittleBill
Advanced Member

4363 Posts

Posted - October 22 2017 :  10:08:02 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yep, Mike has definitely got ‘a way with words’!

Add to that, a ‘wealth of knowledge’: great stuff!


"Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at its testing point"--- C.S. Lewis

"There are some ideas so foolish that only an intellectual could believe them"--- George Orwell

Slow Is Smooth, Smooth Is Fast

Edited by - LittleBill on October 22 2017 10:48:02 AM
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Ten Driver
Advanced Member

1683 Posts

Posted - October 22 2017 :  9:23:44 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thank you gents, that's very kind of you! We're having a heck of a lot of fun talking about revolvers and all the trappings over there, and I'm glad you're enjoying it too. We've got some fun stuff lined up in the next few months that I'm eager to share!

Mike
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Jim Higginbotham
Moderator

USA
9431 Posts

Posted - October 23 2017 :  09:54:09 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Badge

Excellent site friend. It's on my daily to do list.



Ditto!

Jim H.

Get the Weaponcraft Journal on Amazon: Print or Kindle!
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Ten Driver
Advanced Member

1683 Posts

Posted - October 24 2017 :  5:56:43 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Excellent! We're trying to do a release every Saturday. Thanks for making it a regular stop!

Mike
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Ten Driver
Advanced Member

1683 Posts

Posted - November 20 2017 :  2:16:40 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
In the latest installment, Justin discusses the "thumbs forward" grip for revolvers. Let us know what you think.
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LittleBill
Advanced Member

4363 Posts

Posted - November 20 2017 :  3:59:35 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I don’t know about the thumbs-forward grip, but— inspired by one of your previous articles— I just scored a nice ‘vintage’ Don Hume Bill Jordan holster for my M19, for $25 delivered, on eBay! Gracias!


"Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at its testing point"--- C.S. Lewis

"There are some ideas so foolish that only an intellectual could believe them"--- George Orwell

Slow Is Smooth, Smooth Is Fast

Edited by - LittleBill on November 20 2017 4:04:36 PM
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