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 Flashlights, Weaponlights, & NVG?
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Dov
Advanced Member

USA
2638 Posts

Posted - August 09 2017 :  6:00:58 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'm pretty sure most of us agree about utility of flashlights, specially if power is out for extended period of time.

Weaponlight on rifle or shotgun in addition to handhelds seems worthwhile to me, but wonder if NVG is worth budgeting for.

Part of the reason thinking about this is because of a minor incident last night outside our apartment, I was pretty sure I knew what was going on. It was just our very new apartment neighbors that are being evicted already. They don't seem like bad kids just young & not very wise yet but our landlord doesn't tolerate any nonsense.

I was able to ID them with ambient light but it took a few minutes, didn't want to illuminate if I didn't need to.

One of their buddies was knocking on their back patio door & then our spare bedroom window (by mistake) probably one of the ones helping them move today.

I don't know if NVG would have speeded up identifying the people or not, but it did convince me I want night vision for home surveillance cameras when we move out of here & into a house (medical issues/bills have delayed getting house).

gw
Advanced Member

3984 Posts

Posted - August 09 2017 :  7:12:38 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
spend your money on a big German Shepherd, he has night vision, bionic ears, and loves to play catch

"Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not..."

Edited by - gw on August 09 2017 7:33:21 PM
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oldmuleskinner
Senior Member

795 Posts

Posted - August 10 2017 :  02:37:10 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hahahahaha. Great advice concerning the dog!

Each of us is an innkeeper, and we decide if there is room for Jesus.
Neal A. Maxwell
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Dov
Advanced Member

USA
2638 Posts

Posted - August 10 2017 :  04:29:51 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
We already plan on at least 2-3 dogs, I introduced her to customer that had Great Danes and she's wanted one ever since.

I want a Rhodisian Ridgeback or two.

Perhaps a Malamute as well.
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Arvinator
Advanced Member

USA
5252 Posts

Posted - August 10 2017 :  08:42:22 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
My night vision decided to dump out on me, dang night owl monocular worked good then POOF like magic it died.

I want to eventually scrounge another but till then I like my Walkers hearing protectors that also amplify sounds. Sometimes hidden in the dark and hearing better could be the smart move....

Be honest, fair, and always prepared...
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bso900p
Average Member

USA
366 Posts

Posted - October 07 2017 :  12:58:05 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I have a light on my duty weapon because I have to search & clear houses. At home... no. I don’t go searching for bumps in the night. I know the layout of my house in the dark & I wanna keep that advantage. Most bumps are nothing. That bump that is will come to me and bump no more. And I hope it never happens.
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LittleBill
Advanced Member

4377 Posts

Posted - October 07 2017 :  1:04:28 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by gw

spend your money on a big German Shepherd, he has night vision, bionic ears, and loves to play catch



The 'monks of New Skete' is a monastery in upstate NY who specialize in raising German shepherds, they favor that breed. They've published a number of good books about raising and training your dog.

I've always had Great Danes, love the breed, very good-natured. We never cropped the ears or tails of ours. But they're not as smart as a German shepherd.

"Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at its testing point"--- C.S. Lewis

"There are some ideas so foolish that only an intellectual could believe them"--- George Orwell

Slow Is Smooth, Smooth Is Fast
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Chris Christian
Advanced Member

USA
2939 Posts

Posted - October 07 2017 :  1:20:18 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Dov

We already plan on at least 2-3 dogs, I introduced her to customer that had Great Danes and she's wanted one ever since.

I want a Rhodisian Ridgeback or two.

Perhaps a Malamute as well.



Multiple dogs can create some problems. Especially if they are male. Dogs are pack oriented, with an Alpha as the boss and a Beta as 2nd, the other dogs accept their role within that family.

When dogs interact with humans, the humans normally become Alpha & Beta.... but dogs still 'sort things out among themselves.

GW is right about a dog... better vision and hearing than anything we can come up with. But, one dog devoted to the family, and understanding who A & B are, is a better bet than several dogs trying to sort out their relationship below that.

I spent a couple years as a dog handler at weapons depos in the Navy, and they sent me to Lackland AFB for a couple of weeks of 'school' before I every saw my dog. That's been awhile for me... but some current very good friends raise and train Rottweilers, so I keep a bit current. One dog devoted to the family is likely (IMHO) a better bet then multiple dogs.

As for NV gear... If you think you're going to 'get hit' and are sitting outside in an ambush position, NV gear (along with enhanced hearing gear) can be nice (as long as it works). If you're inside and the fan gets hit... it's just something to get in the way and delay a proper response.

Just my thoughts... and they were free... so they cost you what you paid for them

Chris Christian
There are those who make things happen. There are those who watch things happen. There are those who wonder What The Heck happened! Pick one.
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LittleBill
Advanced Member

4377 Posts

Posted - October 07 2017 :  1:57:02 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Chris Christian

quote:
Originally posted by Dov

We already plan on at least 2-3 dogs, I introduced her to customer that had Great Danes and she's wanted one ever since.

I want a Rhodisian Ridgeback or two.

Perhaps a Malamute as well.



Multiple dogs can create some problems. Especially if they are male. Dogs are pack oriented, with an Alpha as the boss and a Beta as 2nd, the other dogs accept their role within that family.

When dogs interact with humans, the humans normally become Alpha & Beta.... but dogs still 'sort things out among themselves.


GW is right about a dog... better vision and hearing than anything we can come up with. But, one dog devoted to the family, and understanding who A & B are, is a better bet than several dogs trying to sort out their relationship below that.

I spent a couple years as a dog handler at weapons depos in the Navy, and they sent me to Lackland AFB for a couple of weeks of 'school' before I every saw my dog. That's been awhile for me... but some current very good friends raise and train Rottweilers, so I keep a bit current. One dog devoted to the family is likely (IMHO) a better bet then multiple dogs.

As for NV gear... If you think you're going to 'get hit' and are sitting outside in an ambush position, NV gear (along with enhanced hearing gear) can be nice (as long as it works). If you're inside and the fan gets hit... it's just something to get in the way and delay a proper response.

Just my thoughts... and they were free... so they cost you what you paid for them


Funny you should mention that, that's one of the main principles of dog-raising the monks of New Skete keep stressing: to make sure that your dog understands from the get-go, that you're the 'alpha male'....

"Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at its testing point"--- C.S. Lewis

"There are some ideas so foolish that only an intellectual could believe them"--- George Orwell

Slow Is Smooth, Smooth Is Fast
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Chris Christian
Advanced Member

USA
2939 Posts

Posted - October 07 2017 :  2:44:37 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
LB... sounds like those monk understand dogs. Just buying a couple of dogs gives you little more than having a couple of dogs.

There is DEFINITELY some bonding and sorting out 'pack status' involved with a dog used for personal protection. You must be the ALPHA the dog looks up to. That means training for, at least, basic obedience....after that, if the dog accepts the family, then you have eyes & ears to alert you. Better than a ADT alarm system... the dog will tell you much faster!

If you just want an advanced alarm system there is no need to train the dog for that. If they have melded into the family that behavior will come naturally. Some behaviors in dogs are hardwired.

Think about this.... let's say you own some sort of dog. Now, you're sitting around in the evening in a normal family situation, and the dog is just sacked out on the floor... with the family.

Now reach over, without the dog seeing you, and knock your knuckles on a table.... that dog will be on its feet in a heartbeat, and probably barking!

Hardwired behavior.... you don't need to teach it to a dog who is totally assimilated into the family ... its 'new pack'.






Chris Christian
There are those who make things happen. There are those who watch things happen. There are those who wonder What The Heck happened! Pick one.
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LittleBill
Advanced Member

4377 Posts

Posted - October 07 2017 :  4:43:47 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yep. Which is likely why dogs and humans first started 'hanging out' together, thousands of years ago.... a good deal for both the dogs and the people.


"Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at its testing point"--- C.S. Lewis

"There are some ideas so foolish that only an intellectual could believe them"--- George Orwell

Slow Is Smooth, Smooth Is Fast
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Malcolm
Advanced Member

USA
4008 Posts

Posted - October 07 2017 :  7:19:00 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
We have had two GSDs, together, in our family since about 1991. Still have two males at present. We will always have at least one, as we are now getting sorta to emeritus status, specifically because of that breed’s abilities as a family protection dog. Ours have always answered the door, and yes, they DO make quite the impression, both audibly, as well as physically. Best dog ever, and the only breed my wife and I will ever have. They are fantastic with their kids (grandkids), and the best fullt8me burglar/ intrude4 alarms going. We have an alarm, plus them, and we sleep deeply and well, with the dogs. Besides, in the wintertime, expect to have a GSD or two 8n bed with you because they love their people.
Oh, and the shedding? Think of the fine hair as dog down, and 7nderstand you can spin it, and knit a sweater or two for larger relatives...or consider the dog hair a condiment...

"The measure of a man's character, is how he treats someone who can do nothing for him." (unknown)
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Deputy25
Senior Member

USA
935 Posts

Posted - October 07 2017 :  9:07:28 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Two female Rottweilers and a GSP (for birds, not security). No gun mounted lights on house guns. NVGs from my patrol car are on top of my safe.

Before all else, be armed. - Machiavelli
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dubiousone
Senior Member

630 Posts

Posted - October 29 2017 :  8:38:40 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Many of the indoor/outcoor cameras have night vision built in. Its usually IR LED's so the range can be limited. Handy to have.

Night vision can be pricey. a military grade gen 3 PVS-14 starts at 2500. You can get something 'decent' for around 500-600 bucks that will be gen 1+. Not nearly as nice as the gen 3 stuff.

Something to look at, I picked up Bushnell Equinox. 40mm objective in 3 to 6 power models. Runs around 250. The one I have works well for what I need it for. Color display with a pretty decent IR light. One thing to remember about using IR lights with NVG....if they have night vision you show up like a beacon if you use the light!

Lights are a must both hand held and weapon mounted.

Expert? I ain't no expert, just a
Reasonably Knowledgeable Individual...
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Chris Christian
Advanced Member

USA
2939 Posts

Posted - October 30 2017 :  3:59:41 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by dubiousone

Many of the indoor/outcoor cameras have night vision built in. Its usually IR LED's so the range can be limited. Handy to have.

Night vision can be pricey. a military grade gen 3 PVS-14 starts at 2500. You can get something 'decent' for around 500-600 bucks that will be gen 1+. Not nearly as nice as the gen 3 stuff.

Something to look at, I picked up Bushnell Equinox. 40mm objective in 3 to 6 power models. Runs around 250. The one I have works well for what I need it for. Color display with a pretty decent IR light. One thing to remember about using IR lights with NVG....if they have night vision you show up like a beacon if you use the light!

Lights are a must both hand held and weapon mounted.



+1. If they have even Gen 1 NVG (they are cheap) any IR light you activate will stand out like a Star Trek light saber. You will get made, and located, real fast!

An IR unit can be nice when it comes to looking at critters in your back yard at night (although some critters can see IR and bolt) ... but beyond that I don't want to depend upon an IR unit for personal protection.

I never know what the 'other guy' might have.

Chris Christian
There are those who make things happen. There are those who watch things happen. There are those who wonder What The Heck happened! Pick one.
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WR Moore
Senior Member

USA
854 Posts

Posted - November 03 2017 :  5:27:38 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The last ten years or so before retirement, my employer spent serious money on exotic passive observation gear and weapon sights. Some of the stuff works well, but the field of vision is extremely limited. Some may lack definition. We were buying US sourced stuff, so "cheap" is relative. A lot of the stuff widely available is foreign made, service may be a problem.

We had some 5 figure weapons sights that let us see through rain, sleet, snow, fog and dark of night. However, seeing the target and getting positive ID are two different objectives.
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Evan
Administrator

34116 Posts

Posted - November 04 2017 :  1:08:31 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Our Jack Russel went deaf at 6 weeks, but her smeller worked fine. She had two different barks one saying, "there here" and the other one was "Holy Crap!" and me and the AR would take it from there.

I have a Yukon monocular and my Apple I-Pad has an infa red setting on the camera which I found by accident.


We have flashlights on both our AR's and "I hate you!" green laser on the Kel Tec. we have some flashlights with solar panels on the side that we got from Amazon that have been reliable so far,. Bought them about 8 years ago.

"The greatest thing a Father can do for his children is to love their Mother."

Harold B. Lee

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Malcolm
Advanced Member

USA
4008 Posts

Posted - November 04 2017 :  5:58:54 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Older GSD is almost blind, but his hearing is now bionic in nature. He can hear a mouse flatulating two miles away. He’s got different barks for different family friends, and the “over my dead body”bark for everybody else. Younger one, just does friend or foe barking. Both growl at night to wake me up when something creepy is afoot outside.
I’ve got a low budget “night vision” monocular that sorta works sometimes. NVG gear is farther down the supply chain at present priorities level.

"The measure of a man's character, is how he treats someone who can do nothing for him." (unknown)
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LittleBill
Advanced Member

4377 Posts

Posted - November 04 2017 :  6:09:21 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Malcolm

Older GSD is almost blind, but his hearing is now bionic in nature. He can hear a mouse flatulating two miles away. He’s got different barks for different family friends, and the “over my dead body”bark for everybody else. Younger one, just does friend or foe barking. Both growl at night to wake me up when something creepy is afoot outside.
I’ve got a low budget “night vision” monocular that sorta works sometimes. NVG gear is farther down the supply chain at present priorities level.


There’s actually been research done that provides a physiological explanation for what you’re describing. When someone goes blind, and starts to rely on their other senses to compensate, the parts of their brains devoted to hearing and touch start to grow; and the parts that used to be involved in visual processing, now start to be ‘reconfigured’ for hearing and touch.

Scientists used to think of the adult brain as more or less ‘set in stone’, but that’s all changed in recent years: the unexpected ‘plasticity’ and adaptability of our brains has been the most significant overall ‘takeaway’ from modern brain research.

We’re “fearfully and wonderfully made”, gentlemen.... including our doggies....


"Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at its testing point"--- C.S. Lewis

"There are some ideas so foolish that only an intellectual could believe them"--- George Orwell

Slow Is Smooth, Smooth Is Fast

Edited by - LittleBill on November 04 2017 6:29:06 PM
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Deputy25
Senior Member

USA
935 Posts

Posted - November 04 2017 :  8:43:02 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Malcolm

Older GSD is almost blind, but his hearing is now bionic in nature. He can hear a mouse flatulating two miles away. He’s got different barks for different family friends, and the “over my dead body”bark for everybody else. Younger one, just does friend or foe barking. Both growl at night to wake me up when something creepy is afoot outside.
I’ve got a low budget “night vision” monocular that sorta works sometimes. NVG gear is farther down the supply chain at present priorities level.



Our rottweilers have enough gas to heat and light a small town. They'd NEVER hear a mouse over all of that.

Before all else, be armed. - Machiavelli
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