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Uncle Mike
Advanced Member

USA
1513 Posts

Posted - April 24 2017 :  3:29:37 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi, the CMP has basically no M1 Garands. They list a few higher end sniper models with out accessories . They list one group they call, the "Field Grade Special". It's $830 but the description reveals..." CMP Special FIELD GRADE (.30-06) M1 Garand. This is a completely refurbished rifle consisting of an original M1 Garand Springfield or HRA receiver, new production Criterion barrel, new production American Walnut stock and handguards, and new web sling. Receiver and most other parts are refinished USGI, but some parts may be new manufacture.
Receiver will have considerable pitting above the wood line."

The Philippine rifles are not yet here and we have no idea of the condition. My advice is hang on to what you have as the prices will be going up, especially for GI stocked rifles. Surplus 30-06 has also gone up at the CMP and is now .80 cents a round with limited availability.
I've noticed that short sighted people have started to sell their "extra" ammo and magazines as the good guys won the election. I would be hesitant of selling anything you might not be able to replace. A friend said once; "I never regret a purchase but often regretted a sale", regards, Mike

"The secret of happiness is freedom, and the secret of freedom, courage"...Thucyides

"War is sweet to those who do not know it."...Erasmus

Evan
Administrator

33981 Posts

Posted - April 24 2017 :  7:11:16 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I went down there with $1500 in my pocket. Thought they'd only have the $1,000 guns. I found a Winchester receiver gun for $625 and added a pile of ammo and clips.

When I shot it I found it had a bent barrel. CMP paid the fed ex next day both ways and with a little persuasion, they put a Winchester barrel on it My grandson, DJW, kidnapped it.

"The greatest thing a Father can do for his children is to love their Mother."

Harold B. Lee

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Uncle Mike
Advanced Member

USA
1513 Posts

Posted - April 24 2017 :  11:31:17 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi Evan, that's a great story, especially about DJW. He's got good taste, regards, Mike

"The secret of happiness is freedom, and the secret of freedom, courage"...Thucyides

"War is sweet to those who do not know it."...Erasmus
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Badge
Advanced Member

USA
1613 Posts

Posted - April 25 2017 :  12:21:54 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Took my Dad out there 5 years ago,...... wow. What a difference afew years can make. There were literally hundreds of rifles to choose from at Camp Perry. We were directed to an Air Force Rebuild that was virtually new. Barrel in the white, new stock, etc. Ah, the good ole' day's.

MSS
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Barnacle Bill
Advanced Member

USA
1253 Posts

Posted - April 27 2017 :  1:13:37 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
At one point, late 80's IIRC, Springfield Armory (the company that imports the XD pistols, not the defunct government operation) was advertising "new" Garands. Not sure, but I suspect these were like their M1A's - new cast receivers and some mix of new commercial & NOS/serviceable USGI parts. If surplus Garands dry up but the demand is high enough, they or one of the other companies in the M14-type receiver market will likely step up.
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Uncle Mike
Advanced Member

USA
1513 Posts

Posted - April 27 2017 :  1:55:35 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Barnacle Bill

At one point, late 80's IIRC, Springfield Armory (the company that imports the XD pistols, not the defunct government operation) was advertising "new" Garands. Not sure, but I suspect these were like their M1A's - new cast receivers and some mix of new commercial & NOS/serviceable USGI parts. If surplus Garands dry up but the demand is high enough, they or one of the other companies in the M14-type receiver market will likely step up.



Hi Bill, you are correct about Springfield, Inc., they were cast receivers. The US made 6 million Garands so I think they are a few floating around. I do see prices going up. When I talk to people at the range they are all 100% Garand fans. I don't see any follow through in their buying habits. My nephew looked at mine and bought two. He's an engineer technician type and he fascinated with them. Me, I have trouble installing a light bulb and look at them as a tactical gem. Just my opinion, regards, Mike

"The secret of happiness is freedom, and the secret of freedom, courage"...Thucyides

"War is sweet to those who do not know it."...Erasmus
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gw
Advanced Member

3741 Posts

Posted - April 27 2017 :  3:06:15 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
the Springfield Armory Inc Garand's were ok, I had one in .308 for a while. Garands were cheap back then I should have kept them all.....

The Geneseo guns used cast recievers from Brazil, new stock, and barrels, the rest was new surplus parts. They gave it up when new parts couldn't be supplied reliably. The same thing happened with M1 carbine reproductions.

at one time there were plenty of new parts kits around, the hard part was receivers. Folks were pulling scrappd receivers out of junk piles and rewelding demilled receivers.

be carfull you don't pick up a Garand with a rewlded rceiver by the way

I don't imagine there's enough of a demand to produce an entire new rifle, probably cost some real dough in todays dollars.

"Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not..."

Edited by - gw on April 27 2017 3:10:15 PM
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Ace
Advanced Member

USA
4862 Posts

Posted - April 27 2017 :  8:03:31 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
We have a new-manufacture Springfield-brand M1A at the store, nothing fancy, just a shooter with a plastic heat shield. The boss put a $1,650.00 price tag on it; it has been in the rack for probably a year or so. Customers get excited when they see it, ask to look, then clutch their chest, take a deep breath, shake their head sadly, and hand it back. Ace

Give me $1 every time a Liberal lies, I'll give you $5 every time one tells the truth; I'll end up a wealthy man, you'll end up broke.
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gw
Advanced Member

3741 Posts

Posted - April 28 2017 :  09:12:44 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ace

We have a new-manufacture Springfield-brand M1A at the store, nothing fancy, just a shooter with a plastic heat shield. The boss put a $1,650.00 price tag on it; it has been in the rack for probably a year or so. Customers get excited when they see it, ask to look, then clutch their chest, take a deep breath, shake their head sadly, and hand it back. Ace



you could easily double that price if the SA Inc rifle was made to the same standards as the original Garand or USGI M14

the Garand and USGI M14 used forged receivers and or milled parts made from hardenable quality alloys. The Garand was held to very high quality standards with few manufacturers able to produce all components and keep up with the production rate required by war time demand. This called for an organized large scale effort by several manufactures to meet schedules.

a good Garand receiver and bolt is worth the money, beware of rewelds they are wall hangers only.

Springfield Armory INC makes good rifles but they are not the equal in quality to either the original Garand's or USGI M14. They were originally made in Texas with surplus M14 parts. since the early 80s they have used reproduction cast parts including some bolts.

SA Inc. began making parts in the early 1980s as the supply of USGI M14 parts became limited. Since the early 1990s, Wayne Machine, Inc. of Taipei, Taiwan has made reproduction parts for Springfield Armory, Inc. From 1980 to 1986 Springfield Armory, Inc. was short on USGI M14 barrels so they installed non-chrome plated standard contour barrels made by Citadel and Wilson. Reproduction parts have been used as far back as 1982 in the assembly of their M1A (TM) rifles. Most commercial M14 type rifle parts are cast but some M1A bolts are forged. A USGI bolt will have a dimple due to hardness testing. National Match dimension parts such as the barrel, front sight, and rear sight parts will be marked NM.

forged M14 receivers have a service life of around 400,000 rds, SA INC receivers are somewhere south of that but hold up. cast bolts are a different story, it's worthwhile to upgrade to a forged part







"Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not..."
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Ace
Advanced Member

USA
4862 Posts

Posted - April 28 2017 :  09:48:12 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yep. I try to explain to customers that they can have their original M1A (this one isn't the Garand model, it has the box magazine), and use this as their 'play' shooter. If they break it or wear it out, they haven't destroyed a piece of history. But the vast majority of the people we get in-store simply ain't gonna spend $1,600 for a 'toy'.
The disappointment on the faces of those who see it and initially think they've found a 'real' one is sad. Ace

Give me $1 every time a Liberal lies, I'll give you $5 every time one tells the truth; I'll end up a wealthy man, you'll end up broke.
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gw
Advanced Member

3741 Posts

Posted - April 28 2017 :  10:33:02 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
you run into simular situation with ARs. most people that want a "blaster" are happy with a $500 rifle that probably contains some off shore parts ( maybe a bunch of off shore parts)

the military and other serious folks demand a higher quality "mil spec" or better rifle, they pay a higher price for one, although the will run cheaper than a USGI M14. ( the US sold the machinery to produce M14s to China around 1990)

the delivery price to the Army for their spec'd M4 was $650....

as an off topic side note, there are almost exact copy M4's showing up in Iraq, they have screwy markings but have all the ear marks of Asian copies. Chinese SF units have been seen training with M4 type rifles.





"Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not..."
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Evan
Administrator

33981 Posts

Posted - April 28 2017 :  12:19:44 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Trust me, you'll think a rifle's only use will be on the range, you're probably dead wrong!

"The greatest thing a Father can do for his children is to love their Mother."

Harold B. Lee

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Chris Christian
Advanced Member

USA
2757 Posts

Posted - April 28 2017 :  2:27:21 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Evan

Trust me, you'll think a rifle's only use will be on the range, you're probably dead wrong!



+1!

Chris Christian
There are those who make things happen. There are those who watch things happen. There are those who wonder What The Heck happened! Pick one.
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Barnacle Bill
Advanced Member

USA
1253 Posts

Posted - May 01 2017 :  11:34:28 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by gw

you run into simular situation with ARs. most people that want a "blaster" are happy with a $500 rifle that probably contains some off shore parts ( maybe a bunch of off shore parts)

the military and other serious folks demand a higher quality "mil spec" or better rifle, they pay a higher price for one, although the will run cheaper than a USGI M14. ( the US sold the machinery to produce M14s to China around 1990)

the delivery price to the Army for their spec'd M4 was $650....

as an off topic side note, there are almost exact copy M4's showing up in Iraq, they have screwy markings but have all the ear marks of Asian copies. Chinese SF units have been seen training with M4 type rifles.




Red China was making M14 clones long before 1990, which were reverse-engineered. They started during the Cold War, and used them for "plausible deniability" that they were supplying rebel groups they didn't want to publicly own (so these were "sterile" i.e. without marking that would reveal their origin). They started importing semi-auto variants to the US in the 80's, which was cut off by Clinton's ban on (Red) Chinese imports, but still export them to other countries (e.g. Canada). My understanding is that their receivers need some gunsmithing work to properly accept a USGI bolt (and some assert that the Chinese bolts are inferior & best replaced with USGI).

Springfield Armory's (the defunct gov't arsenal not the M1A guys) tooling for the M14 was sold to Taiwan in the 60's, where the M14 was adopted as the "Type 57".

It wouldn't surprise me if the (Red) Chinese were making "sterile" M4 clones for their less savory "friends" today.
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Evan
Administrator

33981 Posts

Posted - May 01 2017 :  4:59:56 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I think "slim pickings" is a relative term. When I bought my single M-1 and ammo, there were guys there buying multiple rifles and 50 cans of ammo.

"The greatest thing a Father can do for his children is to love their Mother."

Harold B. Lee

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montanaman
Advanced Member

1115 Posts

Posted - May 01 2017 :  5:17:33 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I have a fairly new loaded M1A, and I'll have to take a look at the bolt tonight and see what it is.

That being said, I have no problem with properly made MIM parts, RUGER has been casting very strong weapons for many years, and say that a properly casted part is superior to a forging because they can control it's properties.

Paladin didn't need a semi-auto, or a laser sight, and always carried an extra gun.
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gw
Advanced Member

3741 Posts

Posted - May 01 2017 :  5:26:24 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Barnacle Bill

quote:
Originally posted by gw

you run into simular situation with ARs. most people that want a "blaster" are happy with a $500 rifle that probably contains some off shore parts ( maybe a bunch of off shore parts)

the military and other serious folks demand a higher quality "mil spec" or better rifle, they pay a higher price for one, although the will run cheaper than a USGI M14. ( the US sold the machinery to produce M14s to China around 1990)

the delivery price to the Army for their spec'd M4 was $650....

as an off topic side note, there are almost exact copy M4's showing up in Iraq, they have screwy markings but have all the ear marks of Asian copies. Chinese SF units have been seen training with M4 type rifles.




Red China was making M14 clones long before 1990, which were reverse-engineered. They started during the Cold War, and used them for "plausible deniability" that they were supplying rebel groups they didn't want to publicly own (so these were "sterile" i.e. without marking that would reveal their origin). They started importing semi-auto variants to the US in the 80's, which was cut off by Clinton's ban on (Red) Chinese imports, but still export them to other countries (e.g. Canada). My understanding is that their receivers need some gunsmithing work to properly accept a USGI bolt (and some assert that the Chinese bolts are inferior & best replaced with USGI).

Springfield Armory's (the defunct gov't arsenal not the M1A guys) tooling for the M14 was sold to Taiwan in the 60's, where the M14 was adopted as the "Type 57".

It wouldn't surprise me if the (Red) Chinese were making "sterile" M4 clones for their less savory "friends" today.



my take is the M14 lines from H&R and or TRW were transferred to Tiawan in 68. sometime in the late 80s those lines were "scraped" by Tiawan and ended up in China.

the technology transfer that China wanted was the metallurgy and heat treat used on the M14. China came out with a pretty fair rifle with the Polytech.

Taiwan wasn't very sucessful producing the type 57 on worn out equipment and adopted the M16 under license from the US, I think South Korea too. Probably where the fake M16s in Southwest Asia are coming from? ( I never saw a Korean M16 in Korea, but there may have been a technology transfer)

I'm not sure about the sterile aspect but some of the early receivers built in Tiawan/China were stamped "Springfield"

Chinese M14 parts were imported into the US after the ban. Federal Ordnance, Armscore, and maybe SA Inc usd them. Tiawan is still importing parts.




"Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not..."
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montanaman
Advanced Member

1115 Posts

Posted - May 01 2017 :  8:33:46 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
At the risk of hijacking this thread even more, I grabbed my M1A when I got home, and the number on the bolt is 7790186-SA, and the line under it is numbered F00305.

There are no visible casting marks, and I can't prove it but it looks like a forged bolt to me.

BTW - it was a Model MA9222 loaded M1A, all walnut, and shoots better than I can see.

Paladin didn't need a semi-auto, or a laser sight, and always carried an extra gun.

Edited by - montanaman on May 01 2017 8:34:10 PM
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Uncle Mike
Advanced Member

USA
1513 Posts

Posted - May 01 2017 :  11:12:18 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by montanaman

At the risk of hijacking this thread even more, I grabbed my M1A when I got home, and the number on the bolt is 7790186-SA, and the line under it is numbered F00305.

There are no visible casting marks, and I can't prove it but it looks like a forged bolt to me.

BTW - it was a Model MA9222 loaded M1A, all walnut, and shoots better than I can see.



Hi Montanaman, the "F" number stands for forged. "A" prefix on the second number means cast and "B" means machined from steel. This is the Springfield, Inc. system. GI bolts have a heat lot code and a punch mark that denotes proof round testing, regards, Mike

"The secret of happiness is freedom, and the secret of freedom, courage"...Thucyides

"War is sweet to those who do not know it."...Erasmus
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montanaman
Advanced Member

1115 Posts

Posted - May 01 2017 :  11:58:05 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Good info !

Paladin didn't need a semi-auto, or a laser sight, and always carried an extra gun.
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