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Ace
Advanced Member

USA
4964 Posts

Posted - April 16 2017 :  9:19:52 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'm kinda looking at a possibility of a Buffalo Bore hard-cast SWC at about (their numbers) 900-ish fps out of my 3" GP100 for maybe shooting a pig on our next hunt [Jim H and others' input on this idea is extremely welcome). My country-boy reasoning on the matter is that if I can hit the right spot, the pig won't care that it's only a 3" barrel.

The discussion on being armed at church, in particular on Easter Sunday, brought a thought to mind: Considering we were in the parking lot for [way too] early service, and the thought of the bad guys using cars/trucks as weapons, a HCSWC would probably carry a vehicle windshield or door better than the Gold Dot Hollow Point I'm currently using; but how effective/recommended--or not--would such a load be for people not behind a barrier, in this caliber?

Also, is there anything to be recommended, for or against, the sorta-FBI load--a softer lead Hollow Point (maybe gas checked? I don't remember for sure) in this caliber?

I'm really liking this gun and caliber, even to the point that my temptation switch is kinda getting flipped re: a 5" S&W Model 29 a guy traded to the store a few days ago. So somebody please, tell me my thoughts are on a good track, or slap some sense into me. Ace

Give me $1 every time a Liberal lies, I'll give you $5 every time one tells the truth; I'll end up a wealthy man, you'll end up broke.

oldmuleskinner
Senior Member

769 Posts

Posted - April 17 2017 :  02:34:22 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I would grab that 5" Model 29 without a second thought. I bought a 5" Model 69 last year because I really like the 5" barrel length and couldn't find a Model 29 in that version.

The 29 will provide one more round, and a little more weight. The extra ounces will help with the recoil, which is quite smart with the 69.

Another good option...you buy the 29, and I will trade you for my 69.

Each of us is an innkeeper, and we decide if there is room for Jesus.
Neal A. Maxwell
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Badge
Advanced Member

USA
1632 Posts

Posted - April 17 2017 :  06:53:26 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
It will work just fine. They aren't Tiger Tanks and as long as you place your shot appropriately you'll have no issues. My last Hog fell to a single .45 Colt 225 grain SWHP round.

MSS
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LittleBill
Advanced Member

4147 Posts

Posted - April 17 2017 :  07:02:14 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
+ 1 to oldmuleskinner's thoughts.

Except I'll trade you my 6" M29 for the 5". You come out one inch ahead, see? What a deal!

No need to thank me.... that's what friends are for!

Seriously: 5" 29s are hard to find. For that reason alone, I'd say 'Jump on it before someone else does.' If you ever find you need to sell it, it shouldn't be hard to find a buyer.


"Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at its testing point"--- C.S. Lewis

"There are some ideas so foolish that only an intellectual could believe them"--- George Orwell

Slow Is Smooth, Smooth Is Fast

Edited by - LittleBill on April 17 2017 07:21:48 AM
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jle3030
Advanced Member

USA
4948 Posts

Posted - April 17 2017 :  08:17:53 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I've only shot one, but I feel that 5" is the optimal barrel length for balancing the big N frame. This is from having owned 3.5, 4, 6, and 6.5' guns.

Jeff

jle3030
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Jim Higginbotham
Moderator

USA
9334 Posts

Posted - April 17 2017 :  08:21:44 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I don't see why it would not work.

I haven't shot any hogs with a .44 Spl (I have with a .44 Magnum). I have shot a few deer with the .44 Spl and one with the Keith bullet at around 1000 fps (if fell on the spot, shot at 110 yards).

I'd probably go with the Buffalo Bore or Underwood Wad-cutter or WFN.

The Federal 200 SWCHP would probably work but the ones I've tried go about 800 in a 4" and the lead is soft.

I think a 200-250 at 900 FPS will work fine as long as the hit is good - if you hit them in the lungs or even the heart and do not break legs or shoulders then they can stay active for 10 to 30 seconds (they can do that with a 30-06 as well).

The only one I've seen hit with a .357 JHP (4 hits to the heart) stayed active for nearly a full minute). Maybe he was just the one with a bad attitude Truly once case doesn't tell us much.

I've had or seen boar go down instantly and stay down with .45 Colt, .45 Win Mag and .45 Auto - but I suspect it is what the bullet hit that makes that happen. I've also seen them run when hit through the lungs with those calibers when bone was not hit.
BTW ditto on the model 29 - regular 29s (not the "Classic") are hard to find in 5". 5" Classic 29s (full length under-lug) aren't that hard to find.

Jim

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Edited by - Jim Higginbotham on April 17 2017 08:24:21 AM
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gw
Advanced Member

3875 Posts

Posted - April 17 2017 :  08:29:03 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
if you are worried aboout getting past a windshield, shoot a hole in it and then shoot through the hole, same with a door.

you can shoot a rat hole through a windshield with most service loads, good arguement for more ammo in the gun.

now whether that's legal is another issue......

"Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not..."
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serialsolver
Senior Member

667 Posts

Posted - April 17 2017 :  4:56:13 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
In my 396ng I keep three hp's and two heavy loaded swc's. In the country the swc's are up first. It has bee my experience that I'm going to get two rounds off at a predator or varmint before it's gone. When I go to town the hp's are first. My thoughts are if I get through the hp's then I probably need penetration and the swc's are in line. I keep the swc's marked with a sharpie so I know at a glance were they are. Hope this helps.
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Ace
Advanced Member

USA
4964 Posts

Posted - April 17 2017 :  8:05:05 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
First, another question: Jim, why the wadcutter rather than the SWC? Does that cause more damage than the other--on critters, I mean? My .45 Colt Blackhawk really likes the Buffalo Bore HCWC, so if they're better than the SWC, I'd be glad to lay in a supply for deers'n'pigs.

Second, a regular customer--we'll call him 'Joe', because that's his name--rescued my wallet today, and bought the Model 29 (it was a 29 Classic, with the full under-lug). I'd really been thinking on how it would make a great pig gun, but just couldn't add it to the collection in good conscience. It's not like I don't have enough 'great pig guns', or like I get to hunt them often enough to make a big collection necessary; but I wanted it. Momma says I need to quit wanting.

Anyway, thanks for all the help. Ace

Give me $1 every time a Liberal lies, I'll give you $5 every time one tells the truth; I'll end up a wealthy man, you'll end up broke.
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Jim Higginbotham
Moderator

USA
9334 Posts

Posted - April 18 2017 :  08:11:20 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ace

First, another question: Jim, why the wadcutter rather than the SWC? Does that cause more damage than the other--on critters, I mean? My .45 Colt Blackhawk really likes the Buffalo Bore HCWC, so if they're better than the SWC, I'd be glad to lay in a supply for deers'n'pigs.

Second, a regular customer--we'll call him 'Joe', because that's his name--rescued my wallet today, and bought the Model 29 (it was a 29 Classic, with the full under-lug). I'd really been thinking on how it would make a great pig gun, but just couldn't add it to the collection in good conscience. It's not like I don't have enough 'great pig guns', or like I get to hunt them often enough to make a big collection necessary; but I wanted it. Momma says I need to quit wanting.

Anyway, thanks for all the help. Ace



I admit it is pure speculation but the wider meplat seems to make more of a hole (the negative is that it does not fly quite as well and it basically a 50 yard and in solution) - the reason I mentioned it was that I've shot some Underwood .44 Spl. Wadcutters and they went 1000 fps from a 3" and they were accurate - they are what I would call "stout"! I have not shot their semi-wadcutters but my guess is they would be OK as well.

Jim

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gw
Advanced Member

3875 Posts

Posted - April 18 2017 :  09:23:20 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'll go out on a limb and speculate that there's not enough difference between WC & SWC to make up for poor placement. Shoot the pig in the butt and all you're doing is chopping up good meat.

reference the post on killing a bear with a 9mm

as a young and dumb know it all I worked for a rich man that hunted moose in Alaska. He showed me his rifle one day, a Remington 30-06 pump with a carbine length barrel. Knowing all, I asked him if a 30-06 wasn't a little light for moose. His reply was " if you shoot them in the toe it is".

I still don't know what he meant....


"Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not..."
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silverback
New Member

USA
68 Posts

Posted - April 18 2017 :  10:51:38 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
My pig and whitetail load is 250 hard cast wc over enough 2400 to reach 925fps out of my copy of Keiths #5.Have not had it fail even on a very angry 1400# bull.just my view from this side of the fence
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Pop Pop
Senior Member

USA
620 Posts

Posted - April 18 2017 :  11:23:10 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Man! So much love for the 44 Spl. I like them also.

Pop Pop
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Ace
Advanced Member

USA
4964 Posts

Posted - April 18 2017 :  7:50:43 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks, Jim. I pretty much agree on the 'punch a big hole' theory for handgun hunting purposes. Most time the shots we get at the places we go are within 25-30 yards. I think I'll pick up some Underwood and some Buffalo Boar (see what I did there?), and plan to use the one my gun like better. If I can hit the water bottle with one, and shoot the cap of with the other....

There will be a rifle along, of course, in case there's a chance at one across the field or something. Ace

Give me $1 every time a Liberal lies, I'll give you $5 every time one tells the truth; I'll end up a wealthy man, you'll end up broke.
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Jim Higginbotham
Moderator

USA
9334 Posts

Posted - April 20 2017 :  09:20:47 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by gw

I'll go out on a limb and speculate that there's not enough difference between WC & SWC to make up for poor placement. Shoot the pig in the butt and all you're doing is chopping up good meat.

reference the post on killing a bear with a 9mm

as a young and dumb know it all I worked for a rich man that hunted moose in Alaska. He showed me his rifle one day, a Remington 30-06 pump with a carbine length barrel. Knowing all, I asked him if a 30-06 wasn't a little light for moose. His reply was " if you shoot them in the toe it is".

I still don't know what he meant....





I would absolutely agree and in fact for my own use I nearly always only compare good hits. OTOH, for me a "good" hit is an area on a deer or a boar about the size of a grapefruit and an inch either way results in a "track event". But given a hit in that area I've sure seen a marked difference in some loads (alas I don't have enough experience with the full wad-cutter to know and can only guess - I do know that a .45 Colt 260 Keith works better there than a .44 Magnum Norma Carbine load - or at least it did once).

I sure can relate to the "shoot the pig in the butt" thing in spades. Was hunting with Tom Givens once and we trailed up this pig the dogs bayed in a bushy area. It was 50 yards away and none of us had binoculars.

I could make out the pig's head and could tell he was looking back at us (the silly guide had on a white T-shirt!). I could not see the whole pig very well but I could see a leg coming down just behind the head - I took careful aim and let fly a home swaged 300 gr Hollow point from my LAR Grizzly and "the race was on" - at first I thought I missed.

After a long while we bayed him again and I shot him in the head. We found a rather large hole in the ham - he had been looking back over his shoulder at us and the leg I saw was a rear one not a front one.

Tom, ever the sage, said "Maybe next time you should try for the *front* shoulder not the rear one"

Jim

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Chris Christian
Advanced Member

USA
2864 Posts

Posted - April 20 2017 :  1:42:44 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I can't/won't disagree with Jim's choice of aiming spot. However, when I am hunting wild hogs my goal (90% of the time) is filling the freezer. In that regard I don't want a bunch of bone frags in the front shoulders. I prefer a behind the shoulder heart/lung soft tissue shot and don't mind the tracking at all. In fact, it gives my 'future table entre' time to bleed out.

For that I want an accurate load that will expand and penetrate through-and-through... since I'm normally focusing on pigs in the 80-100 pound range. I have found in the .44 Mag that the Hornady 240 grain XTP JHP at 1400 fps does well. I also like the 150 Sierra Hunter at 1850 from a 10-inch Contender pistol, or 2050 from a 18-inch carbine, in .300 Whisper.

These work well on 'meat hogs' and have also put a few 200-pound plus 'barr hogs' in the fridge. This isn't really hunting. It's 'shopping'.

The 10% of the time I'm not 'freezer filling' I'm eliminating 'problem' adult boar hogs. 30-06 rifle/180 grain loads... and I want to bust the shoulders bigly! I'm not going to eat it, so I don't care, and I don't want to track

Chris Christian
There are those who make things happen. There are those who watch things happen. There are those who wonder What The Heck happened! Pick one.

Edited by - Chris Christian on April 20 2017 1:44:42 PM
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ASCTLC
Senior Member

630 Posts

Posted - April 20 2017 :  2:01:50 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I stay away from the shoulder on the elk. For something that can take me 2 days or more to carry out of the mountains, no way I'd waste that meat or accept carrying down a big ole wasted blood shot shoulder.

Haven't hunted pig but if there were so many around that the area is loaded like a pig pen I'm not so sure I'd be overly concerned about a shoulder unless my load is ruining both of em. Mmmmmm....50-100lb porkers, would love to grab a couple/few!
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Chris Christian
Advanced Member

USA
2864 Posts

Posted - April 20 2017 :  2:47:02 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
In Florida we try to shoot then from mid-Dec through early March. That's when the acorns have hit the ground and ... OH Boy!... does that make for a fat & fine eating wild hog!

They ain't worth wasting a bullet on from July through November... unless they're raiding planted crops. If they're living in a swamp on tank grass, roots, and carrion, save your ammo.

Chris Christian
There are those who make things happen. There are those who watch things happen. There are those who wonder What The Heck happened! Pick one.

Edited by - Chris Christian on April 20 2017 2:48:55 PM
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Badge
Advanced Member

USA
1632 Posts

Posted - April 21 2017 :  12:26:08 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Chris,... I envy you brother. I really miss being able to run up to Okeechobee whenever we felt like hunting and fresh Pork. I try and get down every few years with a small group of former coworkers. Good times. One of my last Hogs too a Federal .45 Colt 225 grain LSWHP. A Texas neck shot that penetrated into the chest cavity from approximately 15 yards. The very last was a .45 Colt 300 grain LFN into the brain pan and that was that. A god meat Hog. For what it's worth I ha an old Cuban gent tell me that he marinades his wild Hog in Pineapple juice for two day's and it is excellent. I've never tried that but I'm sure it would work as he told me he never buys Pork anymore. Sorry for the ramble.

MSS
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Chris Christian
Advanced Member

USA
2864 Posts

Posted - April 21 2017 :  3:19:50 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I've never tried pineapple juice, but apple juice is excellent. Although, I don't marinate for that long.

A critical piece of my 'hog shopping gear' that I carry when stalking oak hammocks is a 8x50 binocular. I don't shoot without glassing first. If I see any sign of rib bones, or skinny flanks, I'll keep walking. I learned this from a guy who raised pigs. He could 'pick a winner' with a careful glance... and in full camo, with the wind in my face, I had time to look.

Like I said... this wasn't hunting. It was shopping. I could afford to be a careful shopper

Chris Christian
There are those who make things happen. There are those who watch things happen. There are those who wonder What The Heck happened! Pick one.
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