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billmc
Senior Member

510 Posts

Posted - February 03 2017 :  09:20:10 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Does anyone know if something is going on with Alessi Holsters?

I ordered a shoulder holster from them back in August. At the time, their website stated turn around time to be between 8-10 weeks. After 12 weeks had gone by and not hearing from them, I called. That was early December. I was told that the website should have indicated 10-12 weeks for delivery. I pointed out that 12 weeks had already passed.

At first I was told it would be another 4-5 weeks before my holster would be ready. I complained and was told he would move my holster to the top of the pile, to be worked on "next" week.

Its now the beginning of Feb. I don't have my holster. I just tried calling them, taking the phone number off their website. I get a recording stating the number is no longer in service.

Have these folks gone out of business? Has anyone else had problems with them? I've bought from them in the past with no issues (other than a long wait). Anyone know what's going on? Does anyone know how I can get in touch with them?

Jim Higginbotham
Moderator

USA
9431 Posts

Posted - February 05 2017 :  10:04:19 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by billmc

Does anyone know if something is going on with Alessi Holsters?

I ordered a shoulder holster from them back in August. At the time, their website stated turn around time to be between 8-10 weeks. After 12 weeks had gone by and not hearing from them, I called. That was early December. I was told that the website should have indicated 10-12 weeks for delivery. I pointed out that 12 weeks had already passed.

At first I was told it would be another 4-5 weeks before my holster would be ready. I complained and was told he would move my holster to the top of the pile, to be worked on "next" week.

Its now the beginning of Feb. I don't have my holster. I just tried calling them, taking the phone number off their website. I get a recording stating the number is no longer in service.

Have these folks gone out of business? Has anyone else had problems with them? I've bought from them in the past with no issues (other than a long wait). Anyone know what's going on? Does anyone know how I can get in touch with them?



You might try to contact Ritchie Leather Company (goggle it) - I think one of those folks worked with Lou Alessi and might know what is up (I'm not at all sure they were not making the holsters for the Alessi family after Lou's passing but I do not know that for sure).

At any rate, even if they cannot help you sort out the shipping problem they can build about any Alessi design you might want.

Jim

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Pat Taylor
Starting Member

USA
40 Posts

Posted - February 05 2017 :  5:37:46 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I also have an Alessi on order. It has been a little over 4 months and no holster yet. I ordered what I needed from TT Gunleather.

Edited by - Pat Taylor on February 05 2017 5:40:54 PM
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billmc
Senior Member

510 Posts

Posted - February 05 2017 :  11:12:28 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
In googeling about my problem I did learn about Ritchie. There was a post from several years ago, just after Lou had died. Nothing recent though.

I'm sure I could get something from another maker, I even looked at some of the things Ritchie offers and I'm intrigued. But I still have the problem with Alessi. The charged my credit card when I placed the order back in August. If I can't get in touch with them, I have no way of fighting with them to return my money.
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RLS
Senior Member

USA
691 Posts

Posted - February 06 2017 :  02:07:44 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
billmc, a chargeback from the credit card company may be in order.



Rick
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Ten Driver
Advanced Member

1682 Posts

Posted - February 06 2017 :  10:43:11 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Billmc, I just looked at the business card I got from Tom Kulwicki at last year's (2016) SHOT Show, and it had a Buffalo address. I see the website now advertises an address in North Tonawanda, and discusses a recent move.

I don't know when the move occurred--do you think your order was a victim of changes?

The old phone number on the card matches what they have on the website. It looks like the website lacks the email I have on the card, so here it is:

Tom@alessigunholsters.com

I enjoyed visiting with the man last year and liked his product. I hope this is just a temporary glitch, and nothing permanent.

Good luck,

Mike
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billmc
Senior Member

510 Posts

Posted - February 06 2017 :  11:16:34 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ten Driver

Billmc, I just looked at the business card I got from Tom Kulwicki at last year's (2016) SHOT Show, and it had a Buffalo address. I see the website now advertises an address in North Tonawanda, and discusses a recent move.

I don't know when the move occurred--do you think your order was a victim of changes?

The old phone number on the card matches what they have on the website. It looks like the website lacks the email I have on the card, so here it is:

Tom@alessigunholsters.com

I enjoyed visiting with the man last year and liked his product. I hope this is just a temporary glitch, and nothing permanent.

Good luck,

Mike



Mike, thanks for that email address; I did not have that. I was about to send Tom a message (he is the one I've spoken with in the past) and went to their website first. I don't know if this is new or not, but I've just now noticed it. They have two phone numbers listed. (716) 932-7497 is listed as the number for their offices; this is the number I called. (716) 693-4000 that is listed towards the top of the home page, its prefaced by "Reach Us at".I hadn't seen that number before. I'll try that tomorrow during their business hours.

Something else I hadn't seen before, is a message on the home page. It essentially says that their Tannery is having trouble delivering higher quality hides this year, because of last year's weather conditions. Alessi says their deliveries are delayed because they don't want to use a lesser quality leather.

I'll keep you guys informed of what I find out. Hopefully I won't have to use RLS's suggestion, but I'm glad he mentioned it, in case I do.
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billmc
Senior Member

510 Posts

Posted - February 17 2017 :  12:15:19 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Its taken a little while but here is what I've found out. The (716) 693-4000 number is a valid number. The holster company has relocated and is co-located with a gun range. The range answers then will transfer the call.

I got through on that number, not this past Tuesday but the previous one. The folks from holsters were not able to talk with me at that time, so a message was taken and I was supposed to receive a call back. I never got that call.

Today I called again. This time I spoke with Tom. I reminded him I ordered in August and we had spoken at the beginning of December. He looked up my order. He told me that they have been running behind. He said my order should ship by the end of next week. He told me he would pull out my order and double check and I might even receive it sooner. I told him sooner would be good.

Until next week then. We'll see what happens.
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Jim Higginbotham
Moderator

USA
9431 Posts

Posted - February 19 2017 :  11:04:40 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I just saw and email that came across my desktop a couple of days ago that they just moved into a new building.

That might have something to do with the delay.

Jim

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billmc
Senior Member

510 Posts

Posted - February 19 2017 :  3:49:56 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Jim Higginbotham

I just saw and email that came across my desktop a couple of days ago that they just moved into a new building.

That might have something to do with the delay.

Jim



Jim, I like to think I'm an easy enough guy to get along with. I can understand all sorts of things can happen which could delay things. The only thing I ask is that you tell me up front and be honest about it.

At the time I placed the order, back the middle of August, the website indicated it would be 8-10 weeks for delivery. I don't think that's to unusual. When I called in the beginning of December, I was told there is an error on the website, it needs to be corrected, it should have said 10-12 weeks for delivery. I pointed out that even if the website had the wrong delivery times, (at the time of the call in Dec.) that 12 weeks had already gone by. I was then told it was going to be another 4-5 weeks before my holster was ready. If you do a little quick math, you'll conclude that the middle of Feb, is a smidge longer than 4-5 weeks from the beginning of Dec.

I don't know when the move took place. If it was after I placed my order I can understand a delay, if I'm told about it. On the other hand, I can't really envision waking up one day and deciding to completely relocated your business. I imagine some planning and forethought have to go into, before the move actually takes place.

Now if you tell me, when I place my order, that delivery will be 6-7 months, and it takes 6-7 moths for me to get it; I'm not upset. All I'm asking is for the company to be honest with me. I don't want them telling me something, just to try and make me happy, knowing they can't deliver on that promise. (It would also be nice if there wasn't conflicting contact information.)
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WR Moore
Senior Member

USA
851 Posts

Posted - February 25 2017 :  11:24:37 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
If you bring this to the attention of the credit card folks, you will certainly get the attention of the vendor. Typically, the credit folks freeze the account of the vendor and they get really dedicated to helping you. An interstate transaction also brings the feds into it via an interstate fraud issue.

I had a similar situation decades ago with a noted barrel maker who relocated. After I found them in their new digs, they blew their revised delivery by several months. I finally got a refund by threatening a federal fraud complaint. Total elapsed time, almost a year. I've learned to do business through vendors with a vested interest in keeping the customer happy.
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Chris Christian
Advanced Member

USA
2936 Posts

Posted - February 25 2017 :  3:13:18 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by WR Moore

If you bring this to the attention of the credit card folks, you will certainly get the attention of the vendor. Typically, the credit folks freeze the account of the vendor and they get really dedicated to helping you. An interstate transaction also brings the feds into it via an interstate fraud issue.

I had a similar situation decades ago with a noted barrel maker who relocated. After I found them in their new digs, they blew their revised delivery by several months. I finally got a refund by threatening a federal fraud complaint. Total elapsed time, almost a year. I've learned to do business through vendors with a vested interest in keeping the customer happy.



A very BIG +1. There seem to be a number of companies out there that are quite happy to take your money... make a promise... and "Get back to you later".

Chris Christian
There are those who make things happen. There are those who watch things happen. There are those who wonder What The Heck happened! Pick one.
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Ten Driver
Advanced Member

1682 Posts

Posted - March 03 2017 :  12:40:51 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi Bill,

I finally had a chance to check back in on this thread. I'm glad you were able to get a hold of Tom, and hope your order will deliver soon.

Tom seemed like a good gent when I met him, and I suspect he just didn't do a good job of juggling things during the hectic move. He's probably doing it solo, and just couldn't keep up. We tend to think some of these companies in our industry are big productions, but often it's just one or two folks making it all happen.

Not trying to excuse poor customer service, mind you, I'm just saying that it probably wasn't due to laziness or malice. I hope he will get your order back on track ASAP. Based on the wares I saw displayed at the show, it should be a nicely made rig when you finally get it.

Good luck,

Mike
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billmc
Senior Member

510 Posts

Posted - March 04 2017 :  10:07:22 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ten Driver

Hi Bill,

I finally had a chance to check back in on this thread. I'm glad you were able to get a hold of Tom, and hope your order will deliver soon.

Tom seemed like a good gent when I met him, and I suspect he just didn't do a good job of juggling things during the hectic move. He's probably doing it solo, and just couldn't keep up. We tend to think some of these companies in our industry are big productions, but often it's just one or two folks making it all happen.

Not trying to excuse poor customer service, mind you, I'm just saying that it probably wasn't due to laziness or malice. I hope he will get your order back on track ASAP. Based on the wares I saw displayed at the show, it should be a nicely made rig when you finally get it.

Good luck,

Mike



Mike, I haven't received it yet. The last piece I bought from them was very good work, that's why I went back.

I called again this past Thursday, spoke to a woman associated with the range. She asked me for my callback info, which I gave her. I also told her that each time this has been asked for, I never receive a call back. She told me she would call me back herself, if need be. So far, no one has called me back.

I'm planning on calling again Monday. Hopefully, I can speak with Tom again. I'm about ready to tell him to cancel the order and ask for my money back. I hesitate because I don't want to go through another long waiting period from another manufacturer.
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jle3030
Advanced Member

USA
4989 Posts

Posted - March 05 2017 :  07:33:01 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Side bet: If the company is struggling, refund money may not be available. Just sayin'

Jeff

jle3030
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Ten Driver
Advanced Member

1682 Posts

Posted - March 07 2017 :  6:27:34 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hmmmm, Bill that doesn't sound good. I hope it works out.

If not, there's lots of folks out there making good shoulder rigs.

I wonder if any forum members live close by and could pay the range a visit on your behalf?

Mike
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billmc
Senior Member

510 Posts

Posted - March 09 2017 :  10:39:15 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Well guys, I have more news to report.

Yesterday I once again spoke with Tom. I told him that it was beyond the time he had promised me. I wanted to know what was going on and I told him not to placate me; I didn't want to be told something just to make me feel good. I reviewed for him, all the calls I have made and all the responses he had given me. I told him I was a member of this forum and was documenting what has been happening on this site. I mentioned that the last time I had checked, the thread had been read over 900 times. He went on to tell me the various problems they had had.

He told me about the bad hides they had received do to a warmer than normal winter. He told me about their move and how the phone company only forwarded their calls to the new location for three months. He told me there had been some problem with the first holster they had made for me, it softened, so they needed to start over. He said that when he went to check on my holster, while I was on hold, that they were working on it at that very moment. He then told me that it would ship by this coming Friday. I asked him to call me on Friday if something else developed which would prevent him from shipping. He agreed to do that.

Today I received a message from UPS indicating the package had shipped and I should receive it next Wednesday, 3-15.

I'm hoping the quality will be like the previous purchase I made. If it is, it could pose a problem for my next purchase. I'm not sure I want to go through this type of hasell and wait again.
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ajt
Junior Member

USA
207 Posts

Posted - March 10 2017 :  10:01:34 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'm sorry to hear about all of your problems with Alessi Holsters. I have used them for over 25 years and have dealt with Lou when he was still alive, and with someone there by the name of Skip. I have recommended them many many times, I still use Alessi holsters for my J-Frame Smiths and BHP. I believe, but I have not checked recently, one of the named gunsmiths stocked some Alessi Holsters. I think it was C&S, and I think that speaks well as to their quality. I hope that you are pleased with their product, when you finally get it.
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Evan
Administrator

34114 Posts

Posted - March 10 2017 :  12:01:04 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I have a friend who developed a real cool accessory for action shooting. He is a superb machinist and his product has now been taken over by a major mfg, but that only happened after his wife went to a local college and took some accounting classes and started managing the books and others. When he was trying to do both they almost went under.

"The greatest thing a Father can do for his children is to love their Mother."

Harold B. Lee

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RLS
Senior Member

USA
691 Posts

Posted - March 10 2017 :  2:10:55 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Overnight delivery was in order for the delay you experienced. Tom of Alessi Holsters really dropped the ball on this one. You received a song and dance. To add insult to injury, you have to wait even longer. Some business people have no concept of customer goodwill.


Rick
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Ten Driver
Advanced Member

1682 Posts

Posted - March 16 2017 :  4:28:26 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Next time, maybe try Ritchie Leather. He worked with and for Lou Alessi. If you want an equivalent level of design and quality, they would be a logical choice.

Mike
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ajt
Junior Member

USA
207 Posts

Posted - March 16 2017 :  9:30:37 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Found an old business card, "Skip Ritchie", now of Ritchie Leather, was the person that I had dealt with, along with Lou at Alessi Holsters. (They fixed a broken snap on an over 30 year holster and returned it to me within a week, looking like new, No Charge!) I see on the net that he now has his own business. Based on my experiences with him, I wouldn't hesitate to deal with him again. His site states that they have many of the holsters that he designed along with Lou Alessi.
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billmc
Senior Member

510 Posts

Posted - March 17 2017 :  11:54:20 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
As I had mentioned earlier, I had learned of Ritchie Leather when googeling problems about Alessi.

The holster did arrive this past Wednesday. I've hesitated writing about it because I've been trying some things and haven't contacted Tom just yet.

What I had ordered was the Bodyguard Shoulder Holster for a CZ75D Compact PCR. I had previously purchased a Bodyguard for my Colt Defender (3" 1911). Their description of the holster says that if the pistol does not have an external safety, then it will be built with a thumb break. The Colt does have the safety, so a snap is placed between the trigger and trigger guard. You pull on the pistol and the snap releases. I like that setup very much. This holster came with the thumb break.

I'm going to make a guess and suggest that Alessi does not use the actual gun to form their holsters (a blue gun maybe?). The boneing was not as nice as it was on the holster for the Colt, maybe because of the thumb break, I don't know. I suppose with a strap across the back of the pistol, it is less likely to fall out. The problem I ran into is that the snap would not close with the pistol at the half cock position. The "D" in the name is for decocker. Unless I want to go to full cock, then manually lower the hammer, I can't have a round chambered with the hammer fully down.

With a different holster for a different pistol, from a different manufacturer, something he had told me to get the snap closed was to wet the strap. With the strap being wet it can be stretched; snap it closed on the gun and let it dry. I had to do this with this holster, although I had to go more than just wet it, I needed to soak it. I let it stay closed to dry, until today.

Next problem is that when operating the thumb portion it does not move away from the snap far enough to clear the strap, so its very difficult to draw the pistol. I'm thinking about trying to soften the leather of the strap, so it is not as rigid. I'd be hoping that it would move out of the way once unsnapped.

Like I said, I haven't contacted Tom yet, to see what he has to say. My experience thus far does not give me the warm fuzzies.

I think I can say that I will look elsewhere for my next holster.
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LittleBill
Advanced Member

4363 Posts

Posted - June 05 2017 :  8:15:31 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
In the article on ankle holsters in the latest (June) Rangemaster newsletter, the author (Tom Givens?) recommends the Alessi (along with the Null) above all others.

Maybe he isn't aware of the problems Alessi is having in filling orders?


"Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at its testing point"--- C.S. Lewis

"There are some ideas so foolish that only an intellectual could believe them"--- George Orwell

Slow Is Smooth, Smooth Is Fast
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Pat Taylor
Starting Member

USA
40 Posts

Posted - June 06 2017 :  03:11:30 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
My Alessi order is going on 8 months , was quoted 12-16 weeks if I remember right.
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LittleBill
Advanced Member

4363 Posts

Posted - June 06 2017 :  06:17:44 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The Rangemaster article convinced me to try ankle holster carry for my backup Sig P938. Since the article rated the Alessi as one of the best, I went to their website.

Having read this thread I was aware of Alessi's issues in meeting their deadlines. What immediately struck me was the complete absence of any timeframe for delivery. They did have this statement under 'Order Updates' though:

Friends,

Over the past year we have been doing our best to build your holster as quickly as we can without ever compromising the quality you expect to receive from us. Each holster has a minimum of 18 different processes as it moves around our shop through production. My daughter Katie, her husband Keith (they're getting married this Saturday, June 3rd) and myself touch your holster through each and every process, this assures you that each holster receives the attention it deserves to maintain the highest quality product we can deliver. If we find that something is wrong with your holster, we cut it up and start over again, just as we have in the past.

We continue to make each holster one at a time, using 100% USA materials, by hand to order. There is NO mass production of any kind in our shop. We have been blessed with orders and I thank God everyday for our customers and friends.

Last October, we were fortunate enough to move into a newer facility, with a new phone number, (that's another story in itself) located at:

3355 Niagara Falls Blvd,
North Tonawanda, NY 14120.
(716) 693-4000

Below is an excerpt from our Tannery's President ... Shep Hermann.

"Hide grade hide levels have been lower than usual this year due to the warm winter we had last year (warm winters don't kill bugs which then can cause mange - pitting - and cattle to scratch on barbed wire)"

What this means is: I could have chosen to use less than perfect hides to deliver your holster "on time" or as I did decide to be very specific about the hides we would use and deliver your holster late. All of our customers that I have talked to have unanimously agreed that they would rather receive a great holster late, than to receive a less than perfect holster on time. We all here at Alessi have worked very hard to develop and maintain our reputation. If you have talked to me in the past, you know that not only myself, but Katie and Keith will do everything we can to deliver the quality holster you expect to receive from us, as quickly as we possibly can.

Bottom line is this: we are behind in production, it is not because we're on vacation it is because we will never compromise our quality. If you have read any recent reviews they basically all say the same thing, "worth the wait".

I felt I needed to give everyone an update, we have been in the shop working on your leather, which means I'm behind in answering emails. If you have tried to call and I was not able to take your call, it was probably because I'm working on your holster and couldn't stop what I was doing. If you did leave a message and I haven't called you back yet, I'm sorry. I know it's frustrating when you don't get an answer or response. I could spend the day on the phone or answering emails, but then I wouldn't get to work on your holster.

I will continue to apologize for the extended delay in receiving your holster.

Thank you for your patience and understanding.

Tom

If you have any questions concerning how to navigate or are having any issues placing an order, please feel free to call our offices at (716) 693-4000 and place your order over the phone. Thank you for your interest in our holsters and for your patience in allowing our business to grow!



What immediately struck me was:
1) no timeframe given; but
2) plenty of 'excuses' as to why your order will take a long time, why he won't be answering your emails or returning your phone calls. He does lets you know, however, that he will "continue to apologize" for all of the above!
3) His statement that "I know it's frustrating when you don't get an answer or response. I could spend the day on the phone or answering emails, but then I wouldn't get to work on your holster" seems to imply that in his mind, he can either give good customer service, or make holsters--- but not both.
4) his details about "Katie and Keith" and their wedding day--- who cares? Is that intended to arouse customer sympathy ("Isn't that sweet...") and provide yet another excuse as to why your order is taking so long ("You know how much effort it takes to plan a wedding...")


In any case: I noticed they offer their ankle holster for the Sig 238, but not the 938. Since the two guns are quite close in size, I figured maybe they'd just forgotten to add the 938 to their website. So I emailed them inquiring about that; and asking how long current orders could expect to wait.

I received this immediate autoreply:


"We have been blessed with orders and I thank God everyday for our customers and the support they give us.

We are family owned and operated. I, my daughter Katie, and Keith (my daughter’s fiancé) are working very hard to deliver your leather as quickly as we can. We have just recently hired an Army Veteran to work in the shop so that we will have more help in the production of orders.

Please know that each holster is made one at a time by hand in our shop with 100% USA materials. Each holster is made for a specific firearm, and goes through a minimum of 18 different processes before it is ready to be shipped out- there is NO mass production. If it is not up to our standards of quality during any one of these processes, we cut it up and start all over again.

When working with natural hides, it is impossible to tell what will happen to your leather through any of the processes. The leather is checked extensively as it moves around our shop through each stage of production. I am the one who bones, molds, and finishes your holster, and am therefore the last person to touch your holster before it ships out to you.

This is the way we have maintained our exceptional quality for 40 years. We have never sent out a holster just for the sake of delivering it “on time”. I apologize in advance, however we cannot jeopardize the integrity of our holsters for the sake of making the delivery “on time”. We try very hard to honor our production estimates on the website, however please understand that due to the above explanation, and having materials that may be on back order, you may encounter a slightly longer wait.

On that note, please also know that I try to do the best I can to answer your emails and voicemails as quickly as I can, but I’m also the guy who molds and bones each and every holster. With all the calls and emails we receive, I can’t always take time away from my bench as I am working on your leather to deliver your holsters, as you anticipate and expect the highest quality product we can provide, just as we always have for 40 years.

In this day and age of electronic communication, I understand that it is an asset to any business; however I will always take the time to talk to you if you call. I do my best to answer your emails in a timely fashion, but we do ask that folks call if they have questions or would like an update. You may also call to place your order as well.

Currently we are in the middle of moving Alessi Holsters. We’ve been fortunate enough to be able to purchase a building to call our new home. We anticipate we will be completely moved in by November 1, 2016. If you happen to call during this transition, and I’m not here to pick up the phone, please leave me a message and I will call you back just as soon as I receive the message. I have hired a person to work in what will be our new office to assist me moving forward so that communication will be able to be much quicker and more streamlined.

We sincerely appreciate your business and support, and we appreciate your patience. I understand that we couldn’t be successful without our loyal customers.

Thank you for taking the time to read this.

Have a great day, be safe!

Tom Kulwicki, President



Again, lots of excuses, upfront apologies, and unnecessary details about the family; but no firm timeframe for when you can expect your holster to be delivered. I'm glad he hired a Vet, but it's hard not to suspect he's mentioning that in an effort to elicit more customer sympathy. Bottom line, it seems that Tom is as good at making excuses as Lou was at making holsters.


Meanwhile, I found the Ritchie Leather ankle holster for the P938 in stock at Top Gun Supply, an outfit I've done a lot of business with in the past, and who give superb CS. My order shipped the day after I placed it.

The Ritchie holster appears similar to the Alessi version, but more 'streamlined'. It lacks a retention strap, but they claim it holds the gun firmly without it. I guess I'll be finding out.



"Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at its testing point"--- C.S. Lewis

"There are some ideas so foolish that only an intellectual could believe them"--- George Orwell

Slow Is Smooth, Smooth Is Fast

Edited by - LittleBill on June 06 2017 08:36:05 AM
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