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 Anyone here going for the Reflex sights
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threefeathers
Junior Member

USA
117 Posts

Posted - June 28 2016 :  6:35:52 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Both Sam Spade and I have put RMR's on our Glock 17's and for old eyes they are the Captain Billys Wizbang

Scouts Out

jlwilliams
Junior Member

USA
222 Posts

Posted - June 30 2016 :  08:56:25 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
RMR G19 here. I had mine done before the factory MOS option and the custom job I got is better than the factory because the milled space isn't so deep (the factory one almost kisses the extractor) and I got co witnessed iron sights. The dot is my friend. It's easy to use well. One would think that the gun with a tv on top would be hard to conceal but I'm not finding it to be an issue.
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Dov
Advanced Member

USA
2583 Posts

Posted - June 30 2016 :  10:21:35 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'm planning on getting a Glock 34 MOS and/or Glock 40 MOS in large part to try that out myself.

I'm also thinking about setting up a 357 mag revolver with some type of red dot, thinking revolver setup might be more like AR setup than pistol since the sight won't be reciprocating with a slide.

Thinking with a Jack Weigand long rail so you could mount BUIS.

I've used Red Dot a bit on an uncle's Super Redhawk but never did rapid/combat type shooting with that gun since it was a hunting gun.
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Jim Higginbotham
Moderator

USA
9163 Posts

Posted - June 30 2016 :  11:00:33 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I've had half a dozen handguns with red dot sights on them, some going back a long long time.

I find them sorta better for hunting or target shooting at ranges of around 15 yards and beyond.

At less than 10 yards, if I actually use the dot I find them dangerously slow (same for lasers) - but YMMV.

Jim h.

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Edited by - Jim Higginbotham on June 30 2016 11:01:27 AM
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Dov
Advanced Member

USA
2583 Posts

Posted - June 30 2016 :  11:38:43 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Jim Higginbotham

I've had half a dozen handguns with red dot sights on them, some going back a long long time.

I find them sorta better for hunting or target shooting at ranges of around 15 yards and beyond.

At less than 10 yards, if I actually use the dot I find them dangerously slow (same for lasers) - but YMMV.

Jim h.



Is that also true for you with AR & Red Dot at < 10 yards?
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Jim Higginbotham
Moderator

USA
9163 Posts

Posted - July 02 2016 :  10:52:49 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Dov

quote:
Originally posted by Jim Higginbotham

I've had half a dozen handguns with red dot sights on them, some going back a long long time.

I find them sorta better for hunting or target shooting at ranges of around 15 yards and beyond.

At less than 10 yards, if I actually use the dot I find them dangerously slow (same for lasers) - but YMMV.

Jim h.



Is that also true for you with AR & Red Dot at < 10 yards?



Not really, the availability of a reflexive cheek weld puts the optic right in front of my eye.

When I bring this up to advocates of RDS on handguns they tell me the trick is to actually use the front sight to get my head/eye in the right place - but if I can see the front sight then I can shoot right then at close range.

This might be just a bit esoteric as I typically use the "flash sight picture". I once videoed my concealed presentation on a series of rapid hits on a metal target at 7 yards - using a camera with a speed of 30 frames per second the time between the muzzle lifting enough to clear the holster and the shot was 3 frames - 1/10th second on average.

One does not have to be that fast, both mental and physical reaction time, clearing the cover garment and getting a grip all take longer so the total reactive draw is usually much slower. That used to take me a total of about 3/4 of a second but now that I'm on Medicare it has slowed down to about a full second.

My guess is that folks that practice with the RDS on a pistol until they get reflexive are faster with it than I would be since I don't put a lot of reps into it.

Back to the rifle, I do a little demo with an AR to encourage folks to practice mounting the gun reflexively. I take off my Aimpoint and I fold down the rear sight so it is not in the picture and then I use the front sight, explaining that if my cheek weld is the same then the eye is in the same place.

I then have an assistant throw a 5.56 empty case out at around 7 to 10 yards and as soon as it hits the ground I shoot it from the low ready - that is faster than the red dot (and just as accurate at close range) - but as you might imagine, I've done that a few times I don't hit every one but I do send them flying - you only have to hit within an inch to make them sail off.

I'm not advocating anyone shoot like that but it does speak to the importance of indexing the rifle correctly. In instructor classes I did make them do it - everyone could achieve it after a few tries.

Jim

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Chris Christian
Advanced Member

USA
2617 Posts

Posted - July 02 2016 :  11:51:57 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Jim, as usual, makes a good point and one that I have confirmed myself.
I am currently shooting a M&P CORE/RMR reflex sight in USPSA and Steel Challenge. I have about 4,000 rounds through the unit. The CORE does co-exist the iron sights with the RMR dot. But on torso type targets (USPSA/IDPA) at ranges inside 12 yards I am slower on my first shot from the holster than with my standard M&P 9mm with iron sights. The only real difference between the M&P CORE and the standard M&P 9mm is the reflex sight. The grip angle, holster, trigger weight is identical.

The reflex sight does have a very distinct advantage in speed and accuracy (I am talking perfect target hits here) at ranges beyond 12 yards.

Personally, I would not carry a slide mounted reflex sight on a EDC gun. There are too many things that can go wrong. They are great for matches, but those targets don't shoot back and if your sight dies you're only out your match fee and time... not your life.

I would also be very careful about WHICH reflex sight you put on a gun. Pay the money for the best. The RMR I have has run over 4,000 rounds without problems (put the included sealing plate below the sight when you mount it on a slide!).

Other sights that cost considerably less (don't ask, I'm not going to mention names, but they retail in the $300/$375 range)do not stand up to the G-forces created by the slide slamming back, stopping, then slamming forward and stopping. Those G-forces tear up the electronic circuits and the dot goes off. Or, they tear up the elevation/windage adjustments and they won't hold a zero. Some of these sights work just fine on non-reciprocating mounts. But they don't survive the 'Slide Ride'.

Just my experience.

Chris Christian
There are those who make things happen. There are those who watch things happen. There are those who wonder What The Heck happened! Pick one.
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jamtmiller
Starting Member

USA
13 Posts

Posted - July 04 2016 :  08:18:02 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I have an RMR mounted on my duty G17 and on my back up G26. As stated, I am slower with the RMR but the benefits of using them with glasses outweighs the negatives. I can even use my handgun in the middle of the night without glasses; the one next to my bed, and still be able to fight effectively. Having bifocals make me tilt by head to the rear to clearly see stock sights and using the RMR allows me a normal shooting stance and platform.
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threefeathers
Junior Member

USA
117 Posts

Posted - May 07 2017 :  12:01:02 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The only handgun I could possible trade my Glock 17 for is a VP9 with the new RMR slide. It's probably emotional as I've carried an HK P2K for 8 or so years.

Scouts Out
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jamtmiller
Starting Member

USA
13 Posts

Posted - May 07 2017 :  10:14:39 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
On May 4,2017 I qualified on my department range with my RMR G17. I had to start with an AR15 from a vehicle, then transition to my RMR Glock and finally to a shotgun. I had the most problems shooting the iron sighted rifle because of my glasses. My pistol shooting went great with good groups for the speed which I was shooting. I have iron back up sights on the pistol and do not feel my life is in any more danger because of the possibility of the RMR failing. Naturally, I carry a back up or two when working or when off duty.

No I probably can't shoot nearly as well or fast as some of these esteemed members who have written here, but I would and do place my life in the hands using a pistol with a slide mounted RMR.

At 55 years of age I feel confident in this system and my ability to fight, day or night, with my glasses on or knocked off in a dark alley with this set up but, this is my humble opinion and experience.

Edited by - jamtmiller on May 07 2017 10:17:03 AM
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