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34370 Posts

Posted - July 20 2011 :  1:29:31 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
1st, I'm not an expert on the subject. I knew two coppers in Detroit than were in the double digits on shootings.

I have, however been directly involved in virtually all aspects of a fatal shooting:

1. direct participant

2. CSI

3. Patrol Sgt who was the initial supervisor on the scene of fatal police shooting.

4. Precinct Detective

5. Homicide Sgt

No one I respect is anxious to use deadly force but the folks I respect the most have made the decision to quickly apply overwhelming deadly force when it is appropriate.

We need to sit down and have a hard talk with ourselves about whether or not we could actually shoot some one. I did that over a period of weeks while in the police academy. Good thing as the second night out of the academy I was involved in my 1st shootout. No, I didn't shot anybody that night but I tried really hard.

Too many people beg the question and frankly I consider such behavior immoral in the extreme. If you're a cop and have failed to address the issue you ought to be fired. People will call for help and when an uncommitted cop shows up and dithers about what should be a given.

Whether you're a cop or a ccw carrier, you need to exit your home with the thought that today could be the day. If you've dodged the issue and are confronted by a dealy force threat, you last thought might be, "I can't believe this is happening to me". If you're prepared, you'll likely respond as Jeff Cooper said, "I always knew this would happen and today looks like the day and I know what to do."

Too many people including coppers think the mere presence of a gun will bring things to a screeching halt. Not hardly. If I have to draw a gun, you have from the time I grab the gun and align the sights on you to decide what you want to do with the rest of your life because I've already decided to end it.

We have to get over the idea of shooting people "a little". I carry three guns daily because at the end of the fight I "hope" to have a few bullets left over. As long as I had more bullets than bodies I'm reasonably happy.

Because most coppers are never involved in a fatal shooting they tend to be full of bravado about the taking of a human life. I've heard them second guess anothers coppers actions. A couple of times these idgits tried to tell me I screwed up and I suggested they go urinate up a rope.

Remember you have legal protection when you talk to: your spouse, attorney, and minister. I was in a copper bar one night drinking my diet pop when I heard a drunken copper, say "You really want to know what happened over on..............." I grabbed him and drug him outside and asked him if he wanted to go to jail?

At Homicide I responded to OIS scenes and heard other Homicide Dicks accuse the coppers of lying. I had to take them aside and explain that under stress our ability to accurately determined things like distance and number of shot fired go right out the window.

While not all inclusive the above should help. If you;re involved in a deadly force incident, remember this-it can happen 20 seconds from now oe 20yrs from now-be prepared.

"The greatest thing a Father can do for his children is to love their Mother."

Harold B. Lee

Average Member

255 Posts

Posted - July 20 2011 :  8:59:14 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote

"A trip is in your future. You would be wise to pack many weapons."-Soldier of Fortune Cookie
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Advanced Member

1418 Posts

Posted - July 21 2011 :  05:22:03 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote

“If for a while the harder you try, the harder it gets, take heart. So it has been with the best people who ever lived.
Jeffery Holland
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Advanced Member

5183 Posts

Posted - July 21 2011 :  11:36:05 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks, Evan. You've got a wealth of experience that none of us civilians come close to. Appreciate being able to learn from you.

You're carrying on the tradition of the late great Col. Cooper.

"Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at its testing point"--- C.S. Lewis

"There are some ideas so foolish, that only an intellectual could believe them"--- George Orwell

Slow Is Smooth, Smooth Is Fast
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dennis strapon
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1107 Posts

Posted - July 22 2011 :  2:52:16 PM  Show Profile  Send dennis strapon an AOL message  Send dennis strapon a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
Amen to these thoughts. My thoughts exactly. Keep up the great work Evan!

dennis R. strapon
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Starting Member

11 Posts

Posted - August 04 2012 :  3:49:44 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks for your post Evan. I use a portion of each of my classes to have a serious discussion with the students about the reality and required mindset of taking a human life. However, It still amazes me that many people are willing to buy a gun, get a permit, and not take the time to resolve any moral issues of using deadly force. Although I read a lot and post infrequently, I regard this forum as the "best of the best" with regards to useful and factual information.
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Advanced Member

1061 Posts

Posted - August 06 2012 :  11:51:58 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Good info Evan.

It was a topic for my self when I first started carrying and is something I talked with my wife when she first started to carry. It changes your view on the world for the better.

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sig na fie
New Member

50 Posts

Posted - October 25 2013 :  7:19:50 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thank you Evan.........

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