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Barnacle Bill
Average Member
USA
324 Posts |
 Posted - November 01 2009 : 4:16:21 PM
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Breaking in a Kahr TP9 Novak. After 300 rounds of ball and <100 rounds of assorted HP (mostly DPX), I went today to run a couple 50 round boxes of 9BPLE through it. There we had a couple of hitches...
About halfway through the first mag, the slide wouldn't go completely into battery. Disassembly revealed that somehow the flanged end of the recoil spring guide had worked its way a couple coils up into the spring. I got it out, and reversed the spring on it. It didn't do it again, so I guess it is OK. I didn't know there was a "right" end to this spring, but I guess I'd better mark one end with a paint stick or something.
Again in mid-mag with most of the first box gone, there was one FTF where the round seems to have hung up in the mag. Pulling the slide back & releasing fixed it on the second try. It never did it again.
Is this gun trustworthy with this ammo, or do I need to shoot off another couple boxes to be sure? |
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BobK
Advanced Member
USA
1406 Posts |
Posted - November 01 2009 : 7:05:09 PM
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Bill, I have owned four different Kahr pistols. Never had a feeding problem. I used DPX, Ranger T, and Golden Saber.
But I did have a few other problems that persisted. In my experience with them, once a problem shows it never goes away.
I would try a different ammo and stick with it if it works.
Kahr pistols are great but only when they work of course. When you get one that's a lemon, there's no fixing it usually.
Good luck. |
"We sleep soundly in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm." George Orwell |
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Barnacle Bill
Average Member
USA
324 Posts |
Posted - November 02 2009 : 2:59:15 PM
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Well, the problem with the spring turns out to be my bad. From the manual, it does matter which way you put the spring. The manual actually cautions against removing the spring from the rod lest you get it backwards. IMO, they should have made it captive if that's how it is supposed to work... Anyway, it seems I did no permanent harm so I'll just watch that reassembly in the future.
Not sure if I'm ready to call it a lemon because 1 round in 100 nose-dived in the mag, or to blame that on the ammo (i.e. try a different load). |
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BobK
Advanced Member
USA
1406 Posts |
Posted - November 02 2009 : 4:01:16 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Barnacle Bill
Well, the problem with the spring turns out to be my bad. From the manual, it does matter which way you put the spring. The manual actually cautions against removing the spring from the rod lest you get it backwards. IMO, they should have made it captive if that's how it is supposed to work... Anyway, it seems I did no permanent harm so I'll just watch that reassembly in the future.
Not sure if I'm ready to call it a lemon because 1 round in 100 nose-dived in the mag, or to blame that on the ammo (i.e. try a different load).
Hope you got it figured out. |
"We sleep soundly in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm." George Orwell |
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rnpollard
Starting Member
14 Posts |
Posted - November 02 2009 : 5:41:35 PM
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You mention that you are "breaking it in". Does that mean that it is a new gun? If so I would contact Kahr. They mention a 200 round break in period and you've exceeded that. I would imagine that they would want to take a look at it and make it right.
I can't imagine anyone being able to get their hands on enough DPX or other premium round right now to put a whole lot of them through their gun. If you could find them the cost would likely be prohibitive.
That being said, I just bought a PM9 and it fired the first 300 rounds without a single malfunction. Just the same I practiced my immediate action drills. TAP RACK READY.
A semi auto is a machine and is subject to fail and training on correcting those failures is part of the training program.
Murphy never sleeps.
Good luck with your gun.
Rick |
Hooah! It's an Army thing! |
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mojo
Advanced Member
USA
1513 Posts |
Posted - November 02 2009 : 10:28:33 PM
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| Grind another couple of boxes of hard ball through it if OK then try the 9BPLE again. It could be magazine related. Do you have more than one magazine? If you do mark them so you will know which one is giving you trouble. |
"In these modern times, many men are wounded for not having weapons or knowledge of their use."
-Achille Marozzo, 1536
"I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people, except for a few public officials.
To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
-George Mason |
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Evan
Administrator
27509 Posts |
Posted - November 03 2009 : 07:39:20 AM
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| only you can decide what is reliability-my Glock's 17, 26, and 30SF, and Beretta PX4 Storm and Smith 642 have never had a stoppage-never. that's almost reliable enough AND it's why I carry multiple handguns with a rifle in the van. |
"The greatest thing a Father can do for his children is to love their Mother."
Harold B. Lee
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Barnacle Bill
Average Member
USA
324 Posts |
Posted - November 03 2009 : 10:42:57 AM
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Yes, new gun...
Like Evan, the guns I'd normally rely on are 100% with no record of trouble. Then I've seen guns that were not reliable at all & I wouldn't trust. This one seems kind of borderline. If it was just me involved, I'd just get something else. However, it is ultimately for my wife. She wants something both lighter and lower recoil than the Star Firestar M40 she now has, but has pretty much rejected anything with double stack mags over the fat grips. The Kahr seems to fit the bill, but if it isn't reliable I may have to go to a .380 for lack of other light single-stack alternatives in 9mm.
To rnpollard's point about cost, normally I shoot a couple hundred rounds of ball and then 100 of what I want to use for serious. One of the attractions of 9BPLE (in addition to its reputation) is that when you can find it you generally pay < $0.50 per round. At that price I can bring myself to burn a second 100 on this, but if it was DPX that would be really painful.
I think I'll go with mojo's suggestion, and send it back to Kahr if it acts up again in the process.
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Evan
Administrator
27509 Posts |
Posted - November 03 2009 : 12:33:57 PM
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one thing that is sometimes forgotten is the need to take brand new guns and field strip them and scrub the snot out of them.
I fixed a customers super expensive customized 1911 by just cleaning it. I did it out of his sight and after shooting it he wanted to know what parts I had replaced. |
"The greatest thing a Father can do for his children is to love their Mother."
Harold B. Lee
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TONY
Advanced Member
USA
2899 Posts |
Posted - November 03 2009 : 1:11:38 PM
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| I have a CW40. The owners manual said not to consider the gun reliable until it had a minimum of 200 rounds through it. It likes nickle plated best so that's all i carry in it. Fed Tactical 165gr. |
Stay Safe,
TONY |
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Barnacle Bill
Average Member
USA
324 Posts |
Posted - November 03 2009 : 3:22:01 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Evan
one thing that is sometimes forgotten is the need to take brand new guns and field strip them and scrub the snot out of them.
I fixed a customers super expensive customized 1911 by just cleaning it. I did it out of his sight and after shooting it he wanted to know what parts I had replaced.
I did that with the gun, but not the mags. I'll do that next |
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WR Moore
Junior Member
USA
208 Posts |
Posted - November 03 2009 : 4:35:30 PM
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| I'm not up on Kahrs catalog, but the mini pistols sometimes don't do well with +P+ type ammo due to slide velocities outside the design envelope. |
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Todd
Senior Member
USA
513 Posts |
Posted - November 03 2009 : 5:30:45 PM
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I found my P45 liked to run really well lubed, even after the initial several hundred rounds.
Todd |
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Lockjaw
New Member
USA
99 Posts |
Posted - November 06 2009 : 4:08:35 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Evan
one thing that is sometimes forgotten is the need to take brand new guns and field strip them and scrub the snot out of them.
I fixed a customers super expensive customized 1911 by just cleaning it. I did it out of his sight and after shooting it he wanted to know what parts I had replaced.
I usually oil mine with a very good gun oil I get locally. It will slick up anything, and gives me extra casting distance on my baitcasting reels too. |
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Chuck
Advanced Member
USA
2673 Posts |
Posted - November 08 2009 : 02:26:27 AM
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MY wife's PM9 took more like 400 rounds to break in.
I note that her gun really likes the BPLE 115gr +P+, and Doc Gunn of John Farnam's list has posted that he and others he knows have +P or +P+ in their Kahrs.
The Kahrs seem to like to be run "wet", more so than my Glocks and S&Ws have. |
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Barnacle Bill
Average Member
USA
324 Posts |
Posted - November 08 2009 : 4:50:37 PM
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| OK, cleaned it thoroughly including the mags (which had not been diassembled ed since coming out of the box). Did my usual on lubrication - Tetra grease on all bearing surfaces in the gun itself, Mag Slick on the follower & inside of the mag body. Another 100 rounds of ball went through without a hitch yesterday. Recleaned & relubed as above last night. Next chance I get to hit the range, I'll try another 100 rounds of 9BPLE. |
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Barnacle Bill
Average Member
USA
324 Posts |
Posted - November 14 2009 : 7:08:26 PM
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| Tried another 100 rounds of 9BPLE. Three nosedives in the mag, all in the same mag, all on the second round in the mag. I'll call Kahr next week & see if they'll swap me for a new mag. |
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Barnacle Bill
Average Member
USA
324 Posts |
Posted - November 25 2009 : 12:15:15 PM
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Kahr sent out a replacement follower & spring for the offending mag, plus a replacement recoil spring for the pistol as well. After installing the above, I went back to the range today. It devoured 100 rounds of 9BPLE without a hitch. Then it ate 100 rounds of 9BP for dessert, similarly flawless. I suspect that my wife will prefer the 9BP, since it is practically recoilless even in such a light pistol while the +P+ feels about like shooting 357 SIG. Well, back to back with the 9BLPE the 9BP felt recoilless  |
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Matthew Courtney
Senior Member
USA
932 Posts |
Posted - November 25 2009 : 7:15:02 PM
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Insufficient lubrication is the number 1 cause of malfunctions in my CHL classes. Most carry guns should be cleaned and relubed every couple of weeks even if thry have not been fired. Dust, Lint, crumbs, everything you can imagine gets on them. You wouldn't wear a shirt for weeks without cleaning it.
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You will never begin in the fight you have planned for. You will begin in the fight the other guy has planned for.
Move in a manner that leads him into your fight should he press his attack.
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Glenn
Senior Member
USA
960 Posts |
Posted - November 25 2009 : 8:17:36 PM
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| Doing a thorough cleaning/ inspection of the weapon once a month is also a must and regularly wipe it down with Rem Oil but not too much as just a little of that stuff goes a long way. |
Semper Paratus |
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Evan
Administrator
27509 Posts |
Posted - November 25 2009 : 8:44:36 PM
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| I've found too much lube leads to spraying the item with SHOUT while too little leads to being dressed by the funeral home. |
"The greatest thing a Father can do for his children is to love their Mother."
Harold B. Lee
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Barnacle Bill
Average Member
USA
324 Posts |
Posted - November 25 2009 : 9:08:02 PM
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I don't think lube was the issue. Before I ever fired it, I cleaned & lubed the pistol. I put a drop of CLP into areas like the trigger mechanism & blow out the excess with canned air. I use Tetra grease on every metal surface that moves under recoil - slide & frame rails, locking lugs, exterior of barrel, etc... The latter were wet after every range session, which is usually (always) the case with that stuff even after hundreds of rounds.
I didn't clean the mags at first, but it didn't solve the problem when I did. The parts Kahr sent out seem to have done the trick, though. Maybe it was all the mag's fault, maybe I broke the original recoil spring when I had it in backwards. Anyway, seems all better now. |
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Nicolas Deem
Senior Member
564 Posts |
Posted - November 26 2009 : 1:32:33 PM
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| I have a Kahr CW9. I run it wet with Pennzoil 5W-30 synthetic motor oil and it runs great. But I have to keep it clean a lubed or I get a ftf even with the 115 grain +P DPX round. |
"We don't go to work, we go to war."
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jle3030
Advanced Member
USA
2536 Posts |
Posted - November 26 2009 : 6:19:08 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Nicolas Deem
I have a Kahr CW9. I run it wet with Pennzoil 5W-30 synthetic motor oil and it runs great. But I have to keep it clean a lubed or I get a ftf even with the 115 grain +P DPX round.
I'd find that scary. I would always wonder exactly what it is that took so long to break in and needs to be lubed just so in order to function. And when might it decide to stop running even *with* the lube?
Sorry, did I mention that I have the native scandinavian mindset that things can always get quite a bit worse before they completely go to pot? 
Jeff |
jle3030 |
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Reliable enough?
