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Evan
Administrator

34114 Posts

Posted - May 21 2009 :  11:24:19 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
too many people fail to understand how severely we've limited in what we can successfully accomplish under the stress of a gunfight. I've told people to watch the landing scene's from "Saving Private Ryan" to understand the level of confusion in a gunfight.

we need to put our kit together and then leave it the crap alone! In the early 70's I was assigned to an unmarked unit called "Car Boosters". two plain clothes patrolman in an unmarked police car. I was assigned to the unit with the understanding that my partner would be promoted shortly and I could pick my own partner. My temp partner was a guy who was always expermenting with where he carried his single handgun. One night we got shot at and as we bailed out of the unit I saw him patting himslef down trying to find his gun-I yelled, "your ankle dummy!" I went in and told the Lt I'd go back on midnights before I'd go on the street with him.

I carry 3 guns-the primary may vary between a Glock 17, Beretta PX4 Storm DAO .40, or a Glock 30SF. my second gun is Smith 642, and my 3rd gun is a KT P32. If I was rich I might carry 3 copies of the same gun, but since I'm not I carry guns that all work the same way-point and pull.

The primary handgun is always on my left side and the snub is always in the right hand front pocket. the P32 is in my left rear pocket and on the right side of my belt is a mag and light pouch. on the left front portion of the belt is a Don Hume Six Pack with an HKS speed loader for the snub.

If you were to cross paths with me, you notice my right hand would be "Casually" stick in my right front pocket.

my plan is simple-cross my line in the sand and you're about to end your life. you will have the time from when I start my draw until I align my sights on your body to decide what you want to do with the rest of your life because I've already decided what I'm going to do with the rest of your life-I'm going to end it!

too many beg the question and never do the soul searching required so that when it becomes necessary you'll use deadly force without dithering or hesitating. I did that 40 yrs ago while in the police academy when I decided that going home to my wife&kinds trumpted everything else.


"The greatest thing a Father can do for his children is to love their Mother."

Harold B. Lee

TONY
Advanced Member

USA
3418 Posts

Posted - May 21 2009 :  11:51:24 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The last time I went out of town it the truck was to my sister's memorial service last September in Sedona AZ. It was just my Dad and me in the truck on the drive up.

When my Dad was informed that there were 7 firearms between what I had on me and was under the seat and other places he asked why??

I said I needed the rest of the space for the 1000 rounds of ammo...

He then told me I was wrong about the number of guns being 7, he said it was actually 9...

I was keeping it simple, only 4 calibers, .357/.38, .40, 30-30 and 12 gauge

Stay Safe,

TONY

Edited by - TONY on May 21 2009 11:52:40 AM
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jle3030
Advanced Member

USA
4989 Posts

Posted - May 21 2009 :  1:02:18 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
That lead post needs to be a sticky.

Jeff

jle3030
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Srigs
Advanced Member

USA
1061 Posts

Posted - May 21 2009 :  8:39:16 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
My wife use to ask If I'm carrying my gun. I would always say, "No... I'm carrying two!" She use to roll her eyes but now she carries daily one gun and sometimes two. I'm a happy man.

Srigs
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BobK
Advanced Member

USA
1983 Posts

Posted - May 21 2009 :  9:20:51 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I've come to realized that it's all about attitude and preparation.

The caliber of the man counts more than the caliber of his gun.
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dubiousone
Senior Member

630 Posts

Posted - May 21 2009 :  9:29:35 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Evan

too many people fail to understand how severely we've limited in what we can successfully accomplish under the stress of a gunfight. I've told people to watch the landing scene's from "Saving Private Ryan" to understand the level of confusion in a gunfight.

we need to put our kit together and then leave it the crap alone! ...


Evan, that's about the best way I've seen it put.

Expert? I ain't no expert, just a
Reasonably Knowledgeable Individual...
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Ace
Advanced Member

USA
5045 Posts

Posted - May 21 2009 :  11:21:24 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I've had people ask me 'Are you carrying a gun today', obviously they don't know me well. I can answer, honestly and straight faced, 'No', but they don't realize it's a Clintonese reply.

I've been carrying either revolvers, or point-and-click pistols for a long time. A while back I pulled out my 1911-style .45 to carry, but had to put it back until I had time to re-familiarize myself with the manual of arms for it. Now I'm back to carrying it most of the time, but it took a while to refresh the muscle memory. Not something I'd recommend for the non-dedicated carrier. Ace

Give me $1 every time a Liberal lies, I'll give you $5 every time one tells the truth; I'll end up a wealthy man, you'll end up broke.

Edited by - Ace on May 21 2009 11:30:03 PM
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Arvinator
Advanced Member

USA
5252 Posts

Posted - May 21 2009 :  11:38:28 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I like to be armed and not share it with others in my surroundings. Concealed and ready to use.. I seldom get asked if I am carrying a gun, most except my immediate family is even remotely aware I carry a gun when not working. I like it that way. I carry a backup, sometimes two, and I make it a habit to not share how many I have with me at any given time. I load my guns with ammo I have personally tested on my own, and while I am not trying to be a bullet doctor, I just try to see how my gun likes that certain round for function, off hand accuracy, and how it "may" expand and penetrate. The only absolutes in a fight I know is that no fight is wanted, no fight is fun, and no fight goes without victims on both sides, one way or the other.
I carry spare ammo in the vehicles, but I know if it is not on my person, in a gun it is not much value when needed the most.

Be honest, fair, and always prepared...
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pistolero
Junior Member

239 Posts

Posted - May 22 2009 :  3:55:26 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Evan,

Back in the early 90s, I knew a copper who carried in a shoulder holster on his days off. I tried to explain muscle memory to him, but he just laughed at me.
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stdatdeacon
Senior Member

USA
598 Posts

Posted - December 22 2009 :  1:15:52 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
When the Grey Eagle speaks, I not only listen, but I also agree. Consistent constantcy is a great concept.

"Our obligations to our country never cease but with our lives." --John Adams- Letter to Benjamin Rush, 18 April 1808.
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Ace
Advanced Member

USA
5045 Posts

Posted - December 23 2009 :  9:39:41 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I must be mixed up, I thought it was 'constant constistancy'. And there are several Grey Eagles on this site it pays to listen to. The only site of this type I recommend to my students. Ace

Give me $1 every time a Liberal lies, I'll give you $5 every time one tells the truth; I'll end up a wealthy man, you'll end up broke.
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pcsd200
Average Member

USA
255 Posts

Posted - December 23 2009 :  10:45:07 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Watch the HBO Documentary called "Terror in Mumbai"
It is not a matter of IF it will happen here, It is a matter of when

"A trip is in your future. You would be wise to pack many weapons."-Soldier of Fortune Cookie

Edited by - pcsd200 on December 23 2009 10:46:11 PM
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GLV
Moderator

USA
8866 Posts

Posted - December 24 2009 :  10:31:54 AM  Show Profile  Send GLV an ICQ Message  Send GLV a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
100% with Evan.

'Your line in the sand' needs to be well defined and adhered to. You must know your equipment!

A good friend and LEO who since I have known him (more than 30 years)has always been a revolver guy, but fifteen years or so ago, while on vacation, he decided to try a semi auto--and also a shoulder holster. Called out late at night, in a snow storm, and following tracks of an armed felon, he thought he had sighted the individual. Went to his hip for his revolver--------finally after what seemed to be a lifetime to him, he found the semi auto in the shoulder rig. Luck was with him--in the storm, a small tree was mistaken for the felon. Yes they caught the guy, but the shoulder holster and semi auto both went away.


'the world is round everywhere'

'The meek will inherit the earth, but only after the last soldier has left it to them in his will'
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Evan
Administrator

34114 Posts

Posted - December 24 2009 :  10:42:08 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
there's nothing wrong with changing weapons if it's a reasoned decision and the carrier is commmitted to mastering the new system.

Mumbai? I've been thinking Vegas on Super Bowl Sunday would be a nightmare. Vegas SWAT is very good, but there is a finite number of them.


"The greatest thing a Father can do for his children is to love their Mother."

Harold B. Lee

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pistolero
Junior Member

239 Posts

Posted - December 24 2009 :  12:08:41 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I won a Safariland certificate for any holster at the American Action Shooting Association nationals. I am going to get the model 013 for my Para P-16. It has the lever that locks and unlocks the holster. I am going to have to be committed to mastering this new system. If it is not simple enough, I will probably sell it.
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mojo
Advanced Member

USA
2911 Posts

Posted - December 24 2009 :  1:33:39 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
No mechanical retention devices on any of my holsters all guns that get carried are of the point and shoot variety, no manual safeties. There are two 1911 .45s and a Hi-Power in the safe that only get used as range guns because of my conscious decision to only carry P&S handguns. My snub ALWAYS rides in my left pants pocket and I'm still trying to come up with a good way to carry the second M&P 40.

Texas and Louisiana Concealed handgun instructor.

NRA Certified Rifle, Pistol, Shotgun, Home Firearm Safety, Personal Protection and Refuse to be a Victim instructor.

NRA Endowment member.

Disabled U. S. Army Veteran 1St Cav and 82nd Airborne 1967-1970.
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Ace
Advanced Member

USA
5045 Posts

Posted - December 24 2009 :  5:21:03 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I've been trying a Serpa holster with my .45, think maybe I kinda like it but the funny little push-button release isn't quite instinctive yet. I've worn it to work a few times (mainly got it for the retention issue), and so far it seems to be no problem. A few practice draws when getting dressed seems to imprint the gun/holster of the day. That said, I strongly recommend only one mode of carry, one holster for those 'non-dedicated' shooters I've dealt with. Ace

Give me $1 every time a Liberal lies, I'll give you $5 every time one tells the truth; I'll end up a wealthy man, you'll end up broke.
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retfed89
Advanced Member

USA
1638 Posts

Posted - December 24 2009 :  6:27:11 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Ace, I've been using the serpa for my G17 when I work in the court. Always make a few practice draws when I put it on in the morning. In fact if I take a potty break always remove it from the holster as if it were a business draw, but slower. Seems to have imprinted pretty well. Just my $.02. Retfed
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Ace
Advanced Member

USA
5045 Posts

Posted - December 25 2009 :  1:55:10 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Same thing here, retfed, and I've found that when I go back to the other holster, the index finger still goes the same place, there's just no release to push. I am getting an amusing mental image of an armed professional, in the dignity of a courtroom, the front line of defense, protecting the lives of all who enter, taking a break to 'go potty'. Ace

Give me $1 every time a Liberal lies, I'll give you $5 every time one tells the truth; I'll end up a wealthy man, you'll end up broke.
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retfed89
Advanced Member

USA
1638 Posts

Posted - December 26 2009 :  7:04:00 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Ace, touche'. Now that I look at it I probably could have used another phrase.. However, thanks for the chuckle! Retfed
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Glenn
Advanced Member

USA
1077 Posts

Posted - December 26 2009 :  10:11:01 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'm going to have to get used to the new Galco fletch holster for the BHP a few trips to the range should get me up to speed on it.

Semper Paratus
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Badge
Advanced Member

USA
1648 Posts

Posted - August 17 2011 :  4:23:15 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
It's nice to have a forum where one can express there ideas and feelings as around most civilians and other " regular folks if you told them you carried multiple weapons and if trouble sought you out you would take away it's capacity for life they would think you a loon. I dont make that rookie mistake anymore. I have made my peace with the good lord many moons ago and if I must I will and I know I am right in doing so I will sleep well that night.

MSS
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Ace
Advanced Member

USA
5045 Posts

Posted - August 17 2011 :  10:20:38 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
There's a lot of 'regular' folks (I call them 'normal') out there who truly have no idea what evil lurks in the hearts of men, no concept that that evil can, and may someday, reach out and touch them. On the rare occasion self-defense issues come into the conversation with these people, you can usually identify them by their bemused looks and smugly tolerant attitude. I've got some of them in my family. Found it best to just not discuss it with them, unless they really want to hear it; even then, simple statements and little detail is usually best. Ace

Give me $1 every time a Liberal lies, I'll give you $5 every time one tells the truth; I'll end up a wealthy man, you'll end up broke.
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Evan
Administrator

34114 Posts

Posted - August 17 2011 :  11:00:30 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
none of my descendants are naive about the real world

"The greatest thing a Father can do for his children is to love their Mother."

Harold B. Lee

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Malcolm
Advanced Member

USA
4008 Posts

Posted - August 18 2011 :  3:28:20 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Watched a documentary about the Massacre in Oslo a few nights ago on the Discovery Channel.What immediately struck me, was the Norwegian (apparently) "national mindset" that evil and violence would never come to them again, as they are "civilized and tolerant" of others.
Several of the bombing and shooting victims parroted this over and over. The doc also said that "due to engine problems" Norwegian Police couldn't get to the island for over an hour, and no one in the several hundred members of the youth group, thought to band together and rush the gunman, as he was certainly outnumbered. Instead, according to the documentary, they all chose to beg for mercy,tried to reason with him, and were stunned to see him laugh out loud as he continued murdering his victims.
I fear that a great many people here in our country truly believe in this same type of mantra,and are astounded to come face-to-face with reality and evil. I truly believe folks like those will never accept the fact that there are indeed thugs and terrorists out there that will murder them effortlessly with zero remorse for their victims' fear and shock.They just don't get it and never will.Like Evan, we try to teach with love, to our family members, that evil does exist, how to recognize it, and what to do to counter it. To paraphrase a well know scripture in the LDS religion, "...when ye are prepared, ye shall not fear...".

"The measure of a man's character, is how he treats someone who can do nothing for him." (unknown)
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Slick
Advanced Member

USA
3386 Posts

Posted - August 18 2011 :  5:53:48 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I stay away from Serpa holsters, and any with a mechanical retention device except for range use (I do use a hooded Safariland at work, it's issue). I am partial to good ol' leather, and a snap at most... although I had the snap on my Safariland lock up one time and since then steer away from even those if I have a choice. The thing could not be unsnapped without using a screwdriver. It was repeatable too... very strange.

Sic Semper Tyrannis

Edited by - Slick on August 18 2011 5:55:07 PM
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