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 338 vs 375 H&H
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n/a
deleted

3224 Posts

Posted - November 21 2007 :  07:19:26 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'm interested in hearing the different points of view of the 375 H&H vs the 338 Win as a Big Bear and Elk rifle.
Jim

JohnS
Advanced Member

USA
1791 Posts

Posted - November 21 2007 :  08:58:24 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I've always thought of the .338WM as being the ultimate bear rifle and the .375 as being an African gun, but the lines have blurred. As far as elk, I find it amusing. Thirty years ago, the '06 was considered fine and the .300 mags superior against elk. Now, with superior bullet technology, everyone says that the .338 is "minimum". Have elk gotten kevlar hides?
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ought6
Senior Member

USA
713 Posts

Posted - November 21 2007 :  09:31:41 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I've owned and reloaded for both.
The short version - the 375 H&H is the most versatile. The 338 WM is a great round and capable of taking anything cleanly in North America.

I've never encountered a grizzly in the wild. However, from talking to those who have, if he is standing and you're looking up into his 9 foot tall eyes, nothing in your hands seems like enough weapon. I can certainly understand that view point.

I have often regretted getting rid of my Win 70 Safari model 375 H&H. It was extremely accurate and I could load it down to 375WIN velocities with 220 gr round nose for Eastern whitetails & all the way up to 300 gr solids for the African big boys.

For elk, I loaded a Speer 235 gr to 3000 fps. It was a thumper on both ends!!! Recoil doesn't bother me too awful much, but after a range session with about 30+ of these, I was very sore!!

Jim, I guess the old 375 H&H is indeed the one caliber I could do with for anything above varmints.

Edited to add - I just remembered a man I know who used to even load cast round balls for the 375 H&H with fast powder and filler and would use if for squirrels. Crazy, I know, but I guess the 375 H&H can be used for just about anything if you have enough imagination.

Psalms 18:34-35 He trains my hands for battle, So that my arms can bend a bow of bronze. (35) You have also given me the shield of Your salvation, And Your right hand upholds me; And Your gentleness makes me great.

ought6

Edited by - ought6 on November 21 2007 09:34:48 AM
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HEMI
Senior Member

Canada
878 Posts

Posted - November 21 2007 :  10:42:14 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Never shot a big bear but I would want a 375 or 416 in my hands,
Elk and moose I have never needed more than 1 shot with my 7mag[160gr X bullets]
So if I encountered both on a hunt a 338 would be a good choice.
I prefer the push of the 375 to the sharper recoil of the 338.

kev
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GLV
Moderator

USA
8866 Posts

Posted - November 21 2007 :  11:08:12 AM  Show Profile  Send GLV an ICQ Message  Send GLV a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
I have never shot an Elk, Moose, or Bear, but do have the rifle. It is a 375/338 on a BAR.

'the world is round everywhere'

'The meek will inherit the earth, but only after the last soldier has left it to them in his will'
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n/a
deleted

3224 Posts

Posted - November 21 2007 :  2:41:14 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I appreciate the opinions gentlemen.
375 H&H seems like a good choice, thanks......
Jim
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revjen45
Advanced Member

1789 Posts

Posted - November 21 2007 :  7:42:16 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
It has served all over the world since 1912. That's hard to argue with. With the 235 gr load leaving at almost 3,000 fps one could call it a varmint round. It would take a real man to spend the afternoon shooting marmots with one. It's like the m1911- all kinds of fancy stuff has come along since it was invented but it's still as good as any and with modern propellants better than ever.

Better to perish in the struggle for freedom than live to see defeat.
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BobK
Advanced Member

USA
1980 Posts

Posted - November 21 2007 :  11:09:48 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Jim, have no experience with the 375. However, my dad hunted Alaska for 30+ years with a Ruger 338. He took bear, moose, sheep, mountain goats, and caribou. Never a problem. The 338 dropped them right there. I once read a magzine article which proclaimed the 338 the best all around caliber for North America. I see no need for the added recoil of the 375.

Also a muzzle brake will tame the recoil on any rifle. It's well worth money. I have shot several different calibers before and after the muzzle brake. The difference is amazing.

The caliber of the man counts more than the caliber of his gun.
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jch
Starting Member

46 Posts

Posted - November 22 2007 :  11:07:10 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
These are two very different game animals. A well-loaded 270, 280, or 30-06 is "adequate" for elk. A 338 is great for elk.

But elk aren't aggressive carnivores with big teeth.
If I was gonna chase brownies on a regular basis, I'd tote the biggest reasonable caliber I felt confident shooting.

If you are recoil-sensitive, I'd opt for the 338 b/c you'll probably shoot it better.

Just my 2 cents.
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E4E
Moderator

USA
6451 Posts

Posted - November 22 2007 :  4:30:36 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Jim,

If you load your own, the old .375H&H is very versitile.

You go from Mouse to Elephant with it just by working up 3-4 loads.

I once loaded ammo for a customer that wanted a "Light load" for Small Texas deer.

Come to find out, the 200gr .375 winchester bullets are still available, and can be run up into the 3,100fps range without much pressure.
Loaded thusly they act like a big Varmint bullet on impact as they are designed for around 2,000fps.

Load them down to 2,600fps and they recoil like a .308, with a trajectory that would be fine for 90% of any hunting to be done on medium game like Deer.

The middle weight bullets is where the .375 shines though.

Load up with the Barnes Tripple shocks, and just about any critter on the planet can be taken.

I wish I could get Tikka to import the T3 in a LH .375H&H.

Stay safe!!
E4E

Keep the Rifle handy!
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n/a
deleted

3224 Posts

Posted - November 23 2007 :  11:52:37 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Pat,
Who builds a lefty 375 H&H ?
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BobM77
Advanced Member

USA
1350 Posts

Posted - November 23 2007 :  1:19:21 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Jim, I'm pretty sure Winchester made some Model 70s in left hand in 375.
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GLV
Moderator

USA
8866 Posts

Posted - November 23 2007 :  2:58:25 PM  Show Profile  Send GLV an ICQ Message  Send GLV a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
Sako had some barreled actions around a while back.

'the world is round everywhere'

'The meek will inherit the earth, but only after the last soldier has left it to them in his will'
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Badge
Advanced Member

USA
1289 Posts

Posted - November 23 2007 :  10:42:45 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Mr. Hiller,

Winchester for sure, I own one. Possible the Ruger's 77 too but not sure on that.

MSS
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JohnS
Advanced Member

USA
1791 Posts

Posted - November 24 2007 :  06:35:33 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Badge

Mr. Hiller,

Winchester for sure, I own one. Possible the Ruger's 77 too but not sure on that.

Winchester is gone for now.
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Badge
Advanced Member

USA
1289 Posts

Posted - November 24 2007 :  9:57:48 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Jeez, sorry John. I should have recalled that Winchester wasn't what they were. Sorry about that misinformation Mr. Hiller.

MSS
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wsv
Senior Member

USA
774 Posts

Posted - November 25 2007 :  07:36:56 AM  Show Profile  Send wsv a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
Some years ago I hit a deer while riding home on a motorcycle (only hit one, missed several others in the bunch...lol). Ended up with a class c separation of my right shoulder. Two weeks later I placed second in the Annual Ernest Hemmingway Memorial Shoot using a 375 H&H. I feel it is one of the softest recoiling mid bore rifles available thanks to it's long sloped shoulder. The H&H magnums are well known for their accuracy as well...the .300 H&H has won the Wimbledon Cup at Perry! The only drawback is they require a magnum length action. Browning offers their excellent A-Bolt in .375 for lefties btw. I know some regard the .375 to be overkill but I have yet to see anything that was overdead.

Rally the Republic!

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Dov
Advanced Member

USA
1816 Posts

Posted - December 08 2008 :  06:02:01 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
There is a subcaliber device/insert called game getters that use 22 blanks for nail guns to shoot lead roundball from your centerfire.

With 375 it should work like a .36 blackpowder rifle.

Made by a canadian for shooting grouse while hunting big game since 22 pistols are not option.
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Japle
Junior Member

224 Posts

Posted - December 09 2008 :  7:55:00 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I split the difference and built a .358 Norma Mag on a P14 Enfield action.
Just neck the .338 WM up to .358 and you're all set.
I load the Speer 250 gr to 2770 fps. The fact that I have no real use for that much power just makes it more fun!!

John
Viera, Florida

Diplomacy is the art of saying "Nice doggie" whilst you find a rock.
Talleyrand
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n/a
deleted

1269 Posts

Posted - December 09 2008 :  10:06:58 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
An interesting thing about the recoil of the two rounds . Some prefer the 375 .Why ? because while the 375 has greater recoil energy the 338 has greater recoil velocity ! 338 punches , 375 pushes.
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ought6
Senior Member

USA
713 Posts

Posted - December 10 2008 :  10:47:53 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Jim,

Did you ever get that .375 H&H?

Psalms 18:34-35 He trains my hands for battle, So that my arms can bend a bow of bronze. (35) You have also given me the shield of Your salvation, And Your right hand upholds me; And Your gentleness makes me great.

ought6
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wolfgang2000
Advanced Member

USA
2781 Posts

Posted - December 10 2008 :  11:51:43 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by cellamet

An interesting thing about the recoil of the two rounds . Some prefer the 375 .Why ? because while the 375 has greater recoil energy the 338 has greater recoil velocity ! 338 punches , 375 pushes.



In Alaska the 375 and the 338 Et Al, are as common as the 30-06 here. When you shot a 338 it was like some one hit you with a hammer. I much preferred the 375.

“The key is to hit them hard, hit them fast, and hit them repeatedly. The one shot stop is a unit of measurement not a tactical philosophy.” Evan Marshall
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tdbmd
Junior Member

USA
187 Posts

Posted - December 11 2008 :  09:47:56 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I have shot/reloaded for both rounds and I think that for North America, the .338 is fine. Especially with the good bullets now available such as TSX, TBBC, Partitions. I find the .338 and .375 are about equal in the recoil department. If Africa is on the menu, then for sure the .375. That being said, I got rid of the .338 as I have a .35 Whelen that will handle all of those chores equally and it is a lighter, trimmer rifle. My .375 is a Win M70 and would be a little heavy for a mountain/backpack hunt, at my age.

Soli Deo Gloria
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E4E
Moderator

USA
6451 Posts

Posted - December 22 2008 :  7:04:14 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Jim,

Sorry I'm late to the game.

You can find used Winchester 70's here and there, but it's tough finding them.

Savage is the easiest to find in a LH magnum action.

TIkka/Sako used to bring in a decent number of LH rifles, but since Berretta took over they are rare.
Accuflite used to have a few on hand, but they will be considered a custom rifle, as they doll them up rather nicely.

Every once in a while I'll see an old Remmie M700LH in .375, but they too are rare so you have to go digging.

It's the reason I built my own LH .338Win. Nothing on the shelves, and waiting gets old.

Good luck in the quest!!!

Stay safe! E4E


Keep the Rifle handy!
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