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AuburnFootball
Junior Member

USA
134 Posts

Posted - November 14 2007 :  8:38:18 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I guess I am enough of a gun guy just to get excited about a new caliber, even if I think it won't get far. That said, I think this one has merit.

Federal and Ruger have teamed up to bring us the .327 Federal Magnum.

Ruger is making the SP101 in this caliber and Federal is making defensive ammo using Hydra-Shok and Gold Dot bullets. Out of a 3" barrel, the 85 grain HS is going 1330 fps, and the 115 grain GD is moving along at a brisk 1300 fps. Granted, it is a narrower bullet, but it is definitely moving fast enough for reliable expansion.

Supposedly less recoil than a .357. Due to it being a .32, they can squeeze an extra hole in the cylinder, for a total of 6 rounds in the Ruger. If S&W had a 642-like 6-shot .327, that might be the ticket.

I know that there are plenty of other options for carry, but I kinda like the look of it. Anyone else seen anything about this?

--Richard

"We must reject the idea that every time a law is broken, society is guilty rather than the lawbreaker. It is time to restore the American precept that each individual is accountable for his actions." --Ronald Reagan

Evan
Administrator

32607 Posts

Posted - November 14 2007 :  8:53:45 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
they gonna load real cheap .327 Federal Specials so we can pratice?

not interested in the slightest-.357 and .38 Special are all I need in a wheelgun

"The greatest thing a Father can do for his children is to love their Mother."

Harold B. Lee

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AuburnFootball
Junior Member

USA
134 Posts

Posted - November 14 2007 :  9:23:52 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Evan

they gonna load real cheap .327 Federal Specials so we can pratice?




Actually, the gun will shoot .32 S&W, .32 Long, and .32 H&R Magnum. I imagine the .32 long is still cheap, but I understand what you are saying.

"We must reject the idea that every time a law is broken, society is guilty rather than the lawbreaker. It is time to restore the American precept that each individual is accountable for his actions." --Ronald Reagan
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Evan
Administrator

32607 Posts

Posted - November 15 2007 :  05:42:39 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
no, we buy .32 long for a customer and its more expensive than .357 Magnum. I've been a published gun writer since 1974 and marketing people ought to be routinely water boarded.

"The greatest thing a Father can do for his children is to love their Mother."

Harold B. Lee

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n/a
deleted

1269 Posts

Posted - November 15 2007 :  3:05:48 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
It probably has the same very high muzzle blast as the 30 carbine, hot 32-20 and 32 Mag. The Shooting Times article mentions that the 32 Mag been a failure ,so why do they think the 327 will not do the same ??
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Evan
Administrator

32607 Posts

Posted - November 15 2007 :  3:09:36 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
doesn't matter they need to sell adverts

"The greatest thing a Father can do for his children is to love their Mother."

Harold B. Lee

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Vafish
Advanced Member

USA
3305 Posts

Posted - November 15 2007 :  5:05:30 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
It's an interesting caliber.


But I see no advantage to chambering it in a 5 shot 3 inch SP101.

"If your plan is for one year, plant rice.
If your plan is for ten years, plant trees.
If your plan is for one hundred years,
educate children." -- Confucius
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mojo
Advanced Member

USA
2871 Posts

Posted - November 15 2007 :  7:23:19 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
"He's got a .32 gun in his pocket, for fun, he's got a razor in his shoe" *

It wouldn't be much fun but, I'll take the razor.

*Jim Croce "Bad, Bad, Leroy Brown"

Texas and Louisiana Concealed handgun instructor.

NRA Certified Rifle, Pistol, Shotgun, Home Firearm Safety, Personal Protection and Refuse to be a Victim instructor.

NRA Endowment member.

Disabled U. S. Army Veteran 1St Cav and 82nd Airborne 1967-1970.

Edited by - mojo on November 15 2007 9:41:24 PM
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JohnS
Advanced Member

USA
1791 Posts

Posted - November 15 2007 :  10:45:43 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Another answer to a questiion that was never asked...
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Joe Maccarrone
Average Member

USA
458 Posts

Posted - November 16 2007 :  07:33:35 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Vafish

It's an interesting caliber.


But I see no advantage to chambering it in a 5 shot 3 inch SP101.



The advantage is that it's a 6-shot. I agree, it's interesting, and a 6-shot S&W Centennial in this caliber would be handy -- but approval of new calibers for backup/off-duty carry in our department is a highly infrequent event, so it's a moot point in my little world...
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Jim Higginbotham
Moderator

USA
8051 Posts

Posted - November 16 2007 :  08:06:45 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Evan

no, we buy .32 long for a customer and its more expensive than .357 Magnum. I've been a published gun writer since 1974 and marketing people ought to be routinely water boarded.



I respectfully disagree...the process should probably be pressed on through to drowning (appologies to my friends who are the exceptions, some of them are outstanding gunmen).

Jim H.

Get the Weaponcraft Journal on Amazon: Print or Kindle!
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Jim Higginbotham
Moderator

USA
8051 Posts

Posted - November 16 2007 :  08:10:39 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
On topic, I love this process. Well, if a .327 Magnum offers advantages then I will just wait for the ".277 Magnum" and after that the .227 Magnum and then the .177 magnum - oh, we alreaday have a .22 & .17 Magnum so we have reached the "ultimate"....now my head hurts

And while we are at it, let's neck down the 9X19 and make it a .32 Auto-Mag with a 71 gr bullet at around 1300 fps....OH we have those too

In fact I made the mistake of Passing up both a Browning P-35 and a Colt Commander originally chambered in that cartridge - no sarcasm there, they are probably worth a lot to a collector. I know where there is another Browning, I should buy it.

Jim H.

Get the Weaponcraft Journal on Amazon: Print or Kindle!

Edited by - Jim Higginbotham on November 16 2007 08:13:49 AM
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ber950
Average Member

USA
324 Posts

Posted - November 16 2007 :  10:17:42 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Well I have to admit that the .40 S&W surprised me. I figured it would wind up on the trash bin of interesting but unsuccessful cartridges. I still feel the same way about .45 GAP, and the 32 H&R Mag. Every once and a while a cartridge will hang in there and get a large following. However, I am not going to be the beta tester.

Instead of trying to make the cartridge smaller why not just make the gun a little bigger like the Colt magnum carry and chamber it in an off the shelf cartridge.

God, Guns, and Guts made America free. Let's keep all three.
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Biggfoot44
Advanced Member

2168 Posts

Posted - November 16 2007 :  1:13:49 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I am probably warped, with a genetic predisposition to high velocity .32 revolvers, so I think this is a very interesting ctg. BUT, I think it should have been introduced and promoted as a sporting round. Long range trajectory is a minor factor in a compact SD/ BUG application, and it will be a major uphill struggle to make inroads on the well established .38 +P in similar application.
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AuburnFootball
Junior Member

USA
134 Posts

Posted - November 16 2007 :  2:53:48 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I agree: this cartridge has a major hill to climb if it is to stay around very long. However, I appreciate innovation and the willingness to try new things. Sometimes you wind up with a better mousetrap.

For example, some argued -quite loudly- that the .40 S&W was the answer to a question that no one asked. "Short and Wimpy" was what a lot of gun writers said the S&W stood for. However, during the past 15+ years, the .40 has proved to be a reliable self-defense handgun round. In fact, I think it is the most popular caliber choice for law enforcement agencies.

Of course, some of the same folks that bemoaned the introduction of the .40, also thought the idea of an Austrian tool manufacturer making a gun out of plastic was down-right laughable. After all no one asked for a plastic, striker-fired pistol...real guns are made of steel.

There is a very high probability that this cartridge will wind up like the .44 Auto Mag, .357 Maximum, 9x25 Dillon, etc., and have a small group of followers, but never see much commercial success. However, I'm not ready to attend the funeral before it even gets here. The "stats" may not have much use in the "real" world, but they are interesting enough for me to at least give it a chance. YMMV.

--Richard

"We must reject the idea that every time a law is broken, society is guilty rather than the lawbreaker. It is time to restore the American precept that each individual is accountable for his actions." --Ronald Reagan
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Biggfoot44
Advanced Member

2168 Posts

Posted - November 16 2007 :  8:25:07 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
To look to historical comparison, pre- WWII in both Colt and S&W about 20% of their service sized revolvers were in .32-20 ( in HV factory loads exceeding .32 Mag, in handloads similar to anounced .327 spec) rather than .38 spl. The split was most pronounced among those in outdoor/ wilderness environment who saw their gun as doing double duty for field shooting and small to medium game, instead of pure SD only. If Ruger could achieve 20% of .38 spl market share, they would be pleased. But in modern times knowledegable shooter are more likely to own more than one gun for different uses than in the 1920s and '30s.
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gewing
Average Member

USA
317 Posts

Posted - November 17 2007 :  02:14:22 AM  Show Profile  Send gewing an AOL message  Reply with Quote
My thought was that if the recoil is noticably less than a .357, it might have two roles.

an alternative for small revolvers. as was noted, 6 rounds of it versus 5 of .38 or .357. It sounds as if it should have reasonable terminal performance.

I like it as a possible field/trail gun. Not in bear areas, of course, but it might be nice where rabbits and grouse are likely.

I wonder how many could be fit into a revolvers sized for 6 (or even 7) .357? I know Taurus makes a 4" titanium Tracker that holds 7 .357s. COuld you fit 8 or even 9 .329s?



God Bless America
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Evan
Administrator

32607 Posts

Posted - November 17 2007 :  07:32:11 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
you need to understand why the .40 became the flavor of the decade. Too many depts bought into the 147gr jhp crap and when we saw shooting after shooting where it was a dismal failure the people who had pushed for the heavy bullet would not admit they had screwed up so we switched to the .40 and the civiliam market followed along.

I carry a .40. Why? Well I started out with a .41 Magnum and liked it alot-the dao pull on my Bertta Storm is very similar to the N frame Smiths I carried, so its like going home.

We had a box car full of info on how .38 snubs work on the street-I won't live long enough to collect enuf info on this caliber to make an intelligent decision. Ammo is expensive enuf for .38 jhp-one can only imagine what rounds for this monstrosity will cost.

"The greatest thing a Father can do for his children is to love their Mother."

Harold B. Lee

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Doc Lee
Advanced Member

USA
1284 Posts

Posted - November 17 2007 :  09:33:18 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Evan, you're confusing me. (Easy enough to do) I thought you decided that your .41 Magnum was not a lightning bolt generator or hammer of Thor. The load you're carrying in your Storm is probably considerably more effective than your Pb Police loads were whilst you were discussing the weather with Noah on the Ark. (or was that Jim H.??)

The .40 S&W 165 Gr Medium Velocity loads (MV around 950 fps) are what is being called the FBI round. Since Speer is making the bullet I wonder if they are using a different composition Gold Dot that will effectively expand at the lower velocities. I'd assume the FBI has the buying power to get pretty much what they need from various ammunition manufactures.

Regards,

Doc Lee
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wsv
Senior Member

USA
774 Posts

Posted - November 17 2007 :  11:21:24 AM  Show Profile  Send wsv a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
I really am starting to think that the "oneupsmanship" in the firearm arena is simply getting silly. Every company, both ammo and firearm manufacturers, want cartridges or guns named for their company. This is nothing new, some of our oldest cartridges carry the name of the company who developed them in their name, for example .45 Colt or .280 Remington. But it has simply gotten out of hand these days with companies creating cartridges that fill no purpose other than branding. Sadly writers have few choices...write good reviews about them and justify their existence or look for honest work. As consumers we just need to repeat the gunowner's mantra everytime we see one of these new wonder cartridges that is going to change the world...

"there are no magic bullets...there are no magic bullets...there are no magic bullets"

Rally the Republic!

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enidpd804
Advanced Member

1726 Posts

Posted - November 17 2007 :  1:07:21 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yes sir. No magic bullets and no need for any new ones.

Warren
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steelheart
Senior Member

USA
548 Posts

Posted - November 18 2007 :  07:01:12 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I doubt that it'll happen but this might be an interesting caliber in a sub-J frame centennial style revolver. 5 shots of 327 mag with the Gold Dot load sounds like it would be a nice pocket gun for secondary/tertiary use.

I also think that this load's only real chance to survive would be to share the specs with other companies (if they haven't already) to increase the availability of the ammo and guns in the caliber (I hope that makes some sort of sense).

Edited to add: On another forum a member posted a link to a video on this. The barrel flip on that 3" 101 looks like it might be more than many will want to deal with, now shorten that barrel to the more common 2" length and I don't know if the recoil sensitive will be real interested.

Steelheart

NRA and GOA member

Edited by - steelheart on November 18 2007 07:04:23 AM
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Frogfoot
Senior Member

USA
700 Posts

Posted - November 18 2007 :  3:36:05 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Bigfoot44, for the most part, I'm with you on this one. The first revolver that I ever had possession of was a short-barreled, six-shot .32 S&W, borrowed from an uncle. It had a bobbed hammer, nickel finish, and not a marking on it, except maybe a number scrawled on the inside of the grips. I'm guessing that it might have been a Forehand & Wadsworth from the late 1800's, but I really don't know. I only got to take it out once, but on that one occasion, I had so much fun! The velocity was so low, you could see the bullets heading for the target, even at short range. I like the idea of the .327 Magnum, and if I can get the funds together, I just might get one. I have a couple of .357s, and a few 9mm firearms too, but this one intrigues me. I see alot of similarities between car guys and gun guys. You've probably seen the guy driving around in that cherry 1968 Chevy pickup, or 1964 Ford Thunderbird. He's probably got something more practical at home in the driveway, but just gets a kick out driving something old, rare, or different. If every gun owner had the mindset that he/she was only going to get what was really popular, cheap and available when we went car shopping, then we'd all be driving a Ford Taurus or Toyota Camry around town. I for one, am glad we don't. As for the ballistics of the .327 Magnum, a 115 grain .312" bullet with a well designed hollow point, doing 1300 fps sounds like nothing to sneeze at. One potential problem I see though, is that of people on both sides of the counter not looking closely enough at the markings on the box, and buying/selling what they thought was .357 Magnum or vice-versa.

We make a living by what we get, we make a life by what we give. - Sir Winston Churchill

Edited by - Frogfoot on November 20 2007 03:56:45 AM
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retDAC
Average Member

USA
370 Posts

Posted - November 18 2007 :  4:26:48 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The .327 Federal Magnum is what the .32 H&R (un)Magnum should have been ballistically IMO.

While I wish S&W would bring out/back the Model 73 on the C Frame in .38+P, that's not likely to happen.

Six rounds of 115gr GD at 1200-1300 FPS in a J Frame would be more comforting than five of anything else, to me at least.

Where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.
Best of Luck in Your Honorable Endeavors!
Dave McDaniel
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GLV
Moderator

USA
8866 Posts

Posted - November 18 2007 :  5:03:31 PM  Show Profile  Send GLV an ICQ Message  Send GLV a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
115gr at 1300fps in a 20oz gun will give considerable recoil-- and in a Ti 12oz??

There are no free lunchs--and I'll guess the market place will not be well impressed with this new product.

'the world is round everywhere'

'The meek will inherit the earth, but only after the last soldier has left it to them in his will'
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Yonder
Junior Member

USA
233 Posts

Posted - November 18 2007 :  6:42:40 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
This round does not interest me too much, but if it generates sales and interest from others, then great, better for the industry. It may bring more potential supporters of gunrights. There may be a silver lining to marketing hype afterall.

...And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor.
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