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Evan
Administrator

34116 Posts

Posted - May 24 2008 :  2:18:13 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
only gun I ever had in my hands that brought things to a screeching halt was a Thompson SMG.

"The greatest thing a Father can do for his children is to love their Mother."

Harold B. Lee

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wolfgang2000
Advanced Member

USA
3742 Posts

Posted - May 24 2008 :  2:32:37 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Arvinator

I am no operator, nor an expert, only a simple person working as a street cop since 1989. I never look forward to using ANY force, I am not afraid to do my job, but I do get scared at times, I own a 4 inch 629, but I don't feel any more of a man with it than I do without it. People are not jello, not animals hunted in the woods, and no two people are alike, shot or not shot.
The best shifts I've worked is when I actually helped someone; change a flat, help find a lost child, and the night I took four young adults from a burning smoke filled house in the middle of the night. No awards, no one was hurt, and best of all, I did something that I felt each time help my fellow man/woman. That's what means the most to me. I carry multiple guns, and practice when I can. That dosen't mean I ever want to or brag about my efforts to be prepard. We live in a society that is uncertain and that makes it more dangerous, the unknown. That's why we go prepared...Evan's post at the first of this makes more sense than some I've seen reply. No insults to anyone, just solid sense, I suggest you take it and use it.



Good post.

I wish I could count the times I had a BG say "SHOOT MEEEEE".

“The key is to hit them hard, hit them fast, and hit them repeatedly. The one shot stop is a unit of measurement not a tactical philosophy.” Evan Marshall
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Glenn
Advanced Member

USA
1077 Posts

Posted - May 26 2008 :  01:39:26 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Coming home alive is important and if it became necessary for me to defend myself then I would do exactly as Evan said and shoot to stop the threat. Like I said in a previous post using lethal force is not very palatable to me and I would take every option at my disposal to avoid ever having to do that as that is not something I would want on my conscience. And I keep a level head and don't go looking for trouble

Semper Paratus
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rev.
Senior Member

946 Posts

Posted - May 26 2010 :  2:26:51 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
from a civilian point of view;....don't go anywhere armed that you wouldn't go unarmed. I had a friend who thought otherwise. Fortunatly he died from natural causes.
rev.
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Arvinator
Advanced Member

USA
5252 Posts

Posted - May 26 2010 :  5:54:42 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I recently put my stepson thru the required class and he obtained his CHL. He currently has a Taurus 9mm, and I'd like to get him more. When he shoots and shows he can hit with AND carry concealed my little K/T P-32, I'll give it for a second gun. I tell others to do all they can to go to places ARMED. I know Church carry is prohibited, but I suggest each Church find members who CAN carry there, and make sure there is a plan to include who is watching what, etc. Our own Church had such a meeting a few months ago. Five full time LE to include Game&Fish, State, myself and a PD reserve are in different parts of the Church ready to address threat.
I tell people a 9mm in the waist concealed beats a custom .45 in the safe, and a J frame in a pocket beats the expensive pocket auto left in the glove box. I recently made a few trips to the local Wally World with two guns, but no spare mag for the Glock 19. I soon realized I was being either lazy or stupid, and quickly changed my bad habit.
This post needs to be looked from time to time, and we need to look at our own plans for us and our loved ones to make sure we are on the ball and not slacking...

Be honest, fair, and always prepared...
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Charles Ellis
Junior Member

USA
181 Posts

Posted - May 26 2010 :  7:38:05 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Arvinator,I was afraid I would get lazy and not carry a reload for my Glock so I made a IWB holster that has a built on mag carrier.It adds some weight to the rig but the comfort of knowing I have a reload is worth it.You are absolutely correct about the need to reread this thread.It's amazing how quickly we forget.

C.Ellis
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autochet
Average Member

397 Posts

Posted - July 24 2010 :  7:52:26 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
What is really disturbing to me here in Alabama is the gun stores that do not allow to you to carry a legally and properly concealed weapon in their store. I have decided to no longer patronize those stores unless it is a "have to" situation. So far, a "have to" situation has not come about. If gun stores do not allow people to carry concealed how can any of us expect our local grocery stores, for instance, to allow concealed carry?
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RandyB45
Advanced Member

2413 Posts

Posted - February 06 2011 :  9:48:39 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Raise your hand if you love this place.
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Evan
Administrator

34116 Posts

Posted - February 07 2011 :  09:39:28 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
reviewing this thread this AM and conisdering that we about to turn a corner in the world's history.

my wife says that she took all sorts of sports classes so whatever her future husband liked she would be prepared to share such activities. She thought she was marrying a future lawayer, but she married a cop.

I've never been much for hobbies and it quickly occcured to me while in the police academy that I could end up getting killed totally dead if I didn't wise up.

I thank God for the Old Timers who were my trainers in the 2nd Pct in Detroit. Their motovational tools were often a smack delivered with high velocity, but the lessons were remembered and intigrated into my life.

Such street coppers were quickly dismissed as Racists but twice I followed two of these "racists" into a burning apt bldg we both knew did not contain a single white person.

While I wrote the 1st two columns devoted to officer survival in police magazines I stand on the shoulders of giants who people have never heard of.

I am alive because of these gruff, often foul mouthed cops who took the time to teach me critical survival skills.

One told me, "When I 1st worked with you I thought you were other typical rookie, but unlike 99% of them, you actually listened."

I don't have all the anwsers but all of us here complementing each others experiences can make a whole.

One night while in the Tac Unit we stopped to back up two precinct cops talking to a guy. While they were talking, I walked and took a loaded .38 snub out of the perps right hand. We ought to be a whole lot more observant than that.

"The greatest thing a Father can do for his children is to love their Mother."

Harold B. Lee

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wolfgang2000
Advanced Member

USA
3742 Posts

Posted - February 07 2011 :  09:54:55 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Great post, and very true

“The key is to hit them hard, hit them fast, and hit them repeatedly. The one shot stop is a unit of measurement not a tactical philosophy.” Evan Marshall
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gymrat
Starting Member

USA
43 Posts

Posted - May 14 2011 :  01:02:23 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Just read this thread for the first time. Some good points raised and reminders given. Thanks guys. I sometimes think a careerer spent working in the third world for Uncle Sam has given me a third eye but threads like this help to remind me that I can get complacent. On a related note we had a group of SRT guys from Florida training with us in the early 90's and they relayed a story about a bad guy shot with a model 29. Seems the home owner put all six rounds center mass on this guy who then fought with the home owner and ran two blocks before bleeding out. So again nothing is 100%. Well maybe Murphy is 100% lol. Just my two cents again.

11 bravo then 18 bravo!
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Evan
Administrator

34116 Posts

Posted - May 14 2011 :  08:03:02 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Wolf-actually a common comment by knuckleheads in Detroit was "You gonna have to kill me!"

they often got their wish.

"The greatest thing a Father can do for his children is to love their Mother."

Harold B. Lee

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dspaulding
Senior Member

USA
626 Posts

Posted - May 14 2011 :  10:01:28 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Oftentimes the difference between and "racist" and a "realist" is missed/blurred...
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Evan
Administrator

34116 Posts

Posted - May 14 2011 :  11:30:22 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
yeah, it's easy to be critical when you're not the one center stage. A bud and I got severly critiszed for taking a cop killer alive-he had killed a friend of ours. When we piled out of the Tac Unit with shotguns I noticed some one out of the corner of my eye-it was a local new crew with the camera up and rolling. The BG had Jimmy's .357 stuck in his waistband and if he had reached for it, we would have dusted him tv camera or not. I yelled, "Tommy, Channel 7" and we were forced to take the useless piece of trash alive.

We were soundly damned by coppers who weren't and many never got over it and cosnidered us punks.

"The greatest thing a Father can do for his children is to love their Mother."

Harold B. Lee

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dspaulding
Senior Member

USA
626 Posts

Posted - May 14 2011 :  7:52:53 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Often times the "right thing", justice and jurisprudence are not one in the same. Every response in confrontation is situationally dependent and if you are not standing in the shoes of the person involved the best thing to do is shut the heck up! Most second guessers do not have this ability, however...
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sheepdog
Average Member

382 Posts

Posted - May 14 2011 :  8:02:07 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
...long ago and far away, I had the privilige of literally holding back the camera-bearing idiot who wanted to see what was going on with a BG who had shot a sergeant in the wrist..."the guys" were all kneeling praying for the BG's chest wound...kneeling on the chest, that is...it seems that direct pressure helps stop bleeding...when they said "Amen", justice had been done...and the media was none the wiser...now every idiot has a cell-phone camera and looking for a news award...and sometimes the BG does get away with murder...
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revjen45
Advanced Member

2234 Posts

Posted - February 07 2016 :  12:35:15 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I recently went from a Steyr S9 to a compact .45 (for now anyway) as primary sidearm and a .38 snubbie. The Hyundai 2.0 has a really nifty little compartment in the dash that opens with a push of a button - perfect place for the BUG when driving.
Paragon of sartorial elegance that I am I find that Carhartt trousers have pockets that accomodate most Commander-size handguns so I can either pocket carry my primary or carry it in a holster with BUG in the pocket.

Better to perish in the struggle for freedom than live to see defeat.
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BatteryOaksBilly
Junior Member

USA
125 Posts

Posted - June 29 2016 :  11:08:29 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
In the mid 80s I had the fortune to have correspondence with a gentleman I only knew through magazine articles. He was very helpful and now 30 years later I get great pleasure in showing these letters to new guys here at the range. The letters said "If you leave home and think in the back of your mind..I may need a gun before I get back home..Take 2!" These letters were on Detroit Police Department letterheads. I NEVER left home again without 2. Been carrying legally since 1976..Always at least 2! I am certain you know who the author of the letters was.

Billy Bruton..Carry every step..Shoot every day!
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GhostMaker
Starting Member

USA
23 Posts

Posted - September 11 2016 :  12:31:26 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ace

It always fascinated me how so many truly bad guys took having .45's and shotguns aimed at them as just another ho-hum part of the day. Ace



This is an interesting comment, and one that reminds me of an response I gave to someone just after I had to retire from LE work. I was asked how the job had changed from when I started to the era I ended in. My answer was this. "When I started as a cop it was a rough shift if I had to drawn my service revolver. When I ended my career I was having to draw my sidearm upwards of 12+ times per shift."

The old timers I encountered were very much different from the new generation. The kids I was typically encountering not only had NO respect for police officers, they also considered it a right of passage to assault a cop or worse. When folks worry more about being a friend to their kids as opposed to being a parent, this is what you get.

"A good plan violently executed now is better than a perfect plan executed next week." Gen. George S. Patton
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LittleBill
Advanced Member

4377 Posts

Posted - September 11 2016 :  11:29:19 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
That super-cool 'gangsta' attitude.... guaranteed to keep them stupid, prevent them from succeeding, and create all sorts of problems that they can (and will) blame on anybody but themselves...

"Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at its testing point"--- C.S. Lewis

"There are some ideas so foolish that only an intellectual could believe them"--- George Orwell

Slow Is Smooth, Smooth Is Fast

Edited by - LittleBill on September 11 2016 12:05:32 PM
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Chris Christian
Advanced Member

USA
2939 Posts

Posted - September 11 2016 :  12:25:04 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
There are some humanoids walking around this planet that would do society, and the gene pool, a BIG Favor by leaving this world. I kinda thought that was the reason why when you buy a semi-auto pistol it comes with two magazines... and ya can still buy more for it!

There is an old saying in the South... "He needed killin'"... it applies North & West as well.


Chris Christian
There are those who make things happen. There are those who watch things happen. There are those who wonder What The Heck happened! Pick one.
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LittleBill
Advanced Member

4377 Posts

Posted - September 11 2016 :  4:50:42 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
How many of the "handgun deaths" recorded in the stats are 'Darwinian' in that sense: one worthless young thug killing another--- leaving society better off as a result?

Hard to think of another instance where so much social improvement is brought about with such a small investment, the cost of a few handgun rounds.

Folks who operate out of an idealistic egalitarianism--- insisting that "all lives are of equal value"--- might change their mind if they ever had to live among these young barbarians or deal with them on a daily basis.

"Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at its testing point"--- C.S. Lewis

"There are some ideas so foolish that only an intellectual could believe them"--- George Orwell

Slow Is Smooth, Smooth Is Fast
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BatteryOaksBilly
Junior Member

USA
125 Posts

Posted - September 11 2016 :  8:36:39 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I just had a run of shirts made that say on the front "Black Rifles Matter". On the back they say "Be kind..Be polite..Be alert..You may have to shoot the next person you see." I am amazed at the response I hear from people who wear them. All positive. I will not accept the theory that only X lives matter. I told a lady that was carrying on about dolphins being caught in a tuna net that I would be more apt to pay attention to her if she cared just a little for the tuna.

Billy Bruton..Carry every step..Shoot every day!
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LittleBill
Advanced Member

4377 Posts

Posted - September 11 2016 :  9:43:15 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
While I agree wholeheartedly with the sentiments it expresses, and appreciate the play on words.... I sure wouldn't want to shoot someone while I was wearing that shirt....

Even assuming you're completely in the right, there's a good chance that the family of the person you shot will be looking for an excuse to sue you. Or a politically-correct DA looking for a chance to 'make his mark' by prosecuting you.

If they can portray you as a trigger-happy 'vigilante', 'on the lookout' for someone to shoot--- remember what they tried to do to George Zimmerman.... just imagine if he'd been wearing your shirt....

IMHO, you're asking for trouble wearing that shirt outside your home.


"Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at its testing point"--- C.S. Lewis

"There are some ideas so foolish that only an intellectual could believe them"--- George Orwell

Slow Is Smooth, Smooth Is Fast

Edited by - LittleBill on September 11 2016 10:04:10 PM
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LittleBill
Advanced Member

4377 Posts

Posted - September 11 2016 :  9:50:06 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
And yeah, for the Progs--- despite their going on and on about 'equality'--- some lives definitely matter more than others. I find it amazing how often the same folks who are terribly concerned about the dolphins, are perfectly OK with abortion.


"Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at its testing point"--- C.S. Lewis

"There are some ideas so foolish that only an intellectual could believe them"--- George Orwell

Slow Is Smooth, Smooth Is Fast

Edited by - LittleBill on September 11 2016 10:00:36 PM
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