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Evan
Administrator

34116 Posts

Posted - November 09 2007 :  07:45:26 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I've decided to make this a sticky rather than repeating it a million times.

1. Carry everywhere you can legally carry. I have had people in my CCW Classes who say they'd carry if going to Flint or Saginaw but not in Midland or Frankenmuth. Frankly, I don't like the racial component in this philosophy. Both Flint and Saginaw have significant African-American populations, while Frankenmuth and Midland do not. If you think that you're safer around Caucasians than people of Color you're stupid.

2. Carry enough guns-even if you're a cop or both you and your spouse have ccws the reality is that when confronted by death you'll probably be alone. If confronted by multiple opponents wou will not have time for a reload. Thats why I carry a 17 shot Beretta PX4 Storm as my primary carry gun. It is currently backed up by a Smith 640 and a NAA .32NAA. Yes, I have a spare mag for the Beretta and an HKS speedloader for the snub. But I don't expect to have time to reload until its really over.

3. Dress around the guns. Even on Sunday when I attend the local Mormon Church I have the same three guns. What do I expect to happen among such lawbiding people? An absolute horror and nightmarish event. Religion, regardless of the faith, often attracts emotionally fragile people. In todays society, people have all sorts of things on their belts and waistline-cell phones, gps, Blackberrys, etc. A bulge means nothing-don't get so focused on appearance that the last thought you ever have is-"holy crap".

4. Pay attention!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Too many people are so deep in condition white they'd need a ladder to get out of it. When I was a cop I put a small piece on yellow tape at the top of the stolen car sheet so that I every time I checked a car I remembered the minimum level of alterness I should be in.

5. Have a plan-have a line in the sand that if it gets crossed you are totally commited to deadly force. While drawing move off line and engage.

6. Become a Lover of Cover-You need to be constantly identifying and staying close to things that can catch bullets instead of you.

7. Get street relevant training-99% of all "instructors" out there are full of crap. John Farnam and I will be doing an Advanced Handgun class at our range the 26&27th of January. John is one of a very small number of instructors I would let teach at our facility or I would be willing to have my name associated with.

I may not be able to Rumba, but I know relevant training when I see it and I ain't impressed by all these knuckleheads in 5.11 clothing, Oakley glasses, etc. People like Ed Lovette, Dave Spaulding, John, and Jim Higgenbotham I can recommend without reservation.

8. Don't put a $2,000 gun in a $12 holster mounted on a belt you bought at Wally World. In fact, don't carry a $2,000 gun. Buy a Glock, Smith, or Beretta put it in a street relevant holster mounted on a street relevant belt with street revelant mag pouch. Then buy a J frame, an Uncle Mike's pocket holster, atleast two HKS speed loaders AND practice drawing both guns. With the money left over buy alot of bullets and try and wear your guns out.

If you have a Glock get an Advantage Arms .22 conversion (I did)-you can get alot of practice working on sight alignment and trigger control and it can be done cheaply. Recoil, muzzle flash, and muzzle blast are range issues not gunfight issues. In a gunfight you will not be distracted or effected by any of these concerns.

9. If you're a serious gunman or gunwomen, two guns is the absolute minimum-if you're not carrying atleast two guns unless such carry is prohibited by law you're a Tactical Bozo. If restricted to one gun have a couple of knives, pepper spray and some kind of fighting cane or stick AND get training. If you don't incorperate your backup gun into your training regimin your never remember it under stress. I was at the morgue when they undressed a dead copper who was killed trying to reload his 4" Model 19-there was a loaded J frame in an ankle holster. It might as well been at home in a drawer.

8, Have a flashlight even in the day time and learn how to manage its use. Every time I got backlit by another copper I wanted to kick him in the groin.

This is not all inclusive that would take a book, but I sadly aware that for most ccw carriers what I said here is radical thought and most will think I'm an Alarmist. But my "paranoia" has kept me alive for 65 years and in Detroit I buried 19 friends who weren't paranoid enough.

"The greatest thing a Father can do for his children is to love their Mother."

Harold B. Lee

garrettwc
Advanced Member

1017 Posts

Posted - November 09 2007 :  1:03:08 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Well put Evan. I think I'm going to print this out and put it on the closet door as a reminder when I get dressed every morning.

It may not be "all inclusive", but if folks paid attention to these 10 core items, they would be far ahead of the game.

"Let us speak courteously, deal fairly, and keep ourselves armed and ready."
Teddy Roosevelt - San Francisco, CA, May 13, 1903
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wj
Junior Member

USA
163 Posts

Posted - November 09 2007 :  1:11:23 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thank you Evan. After my experience in Fl. and encounter with two "agents" who were not armed, I agree with you in total. I spent some money to have my firearm with me. It was not needed yet it was. What do I mean? At 1;00 in the morning, alone with my wife and two small granddaughters I was able to take care of business if needed. Well worth the 'bit of trouble/expense. Yes I did "send it to myself" with no problems. You guy's are a great deal of help and information. Thank You.
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Srigs
Advanced Member

USA
1061 Posts

Posted - November 14 2007 :  01:27:03 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'm a big fan of 2 gun and one knife carry at a bare minimum. Having one gun available to each hand is very useful and one in a pocket holster enables you to get your hand on the gun when walking down the street, out to the car or into the house. It is much quicker IMHO to draw it. From my drawing practice, it was much faster compared to strong side when you need it in a hurry.

Thanks for making this a sticky!

Srigs
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HEMI
Senior Member

Canada
881 Posts

Posted - November 14 2007 :  09:53:57 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Can't find fault with any,simple,direct. effective!!!
Any that take that course are surely lucky.
When training do you follow a set structure or do you teach off of the cuff?


kev
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Evan
Administrator

34116 Posts

Posted - November 14 2007 :  10:09:33 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
it's set-sort of-both John&I teach what's relevant to the students though the range exercises and skill tests on set.

"The greatest thing a Father can do for his children is to love their Mother."

Harold B. Lee

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belair
Starting Member

47 Posts

Posted - January 01 2008 :  3:11:36 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi all,
Please make it a New Year's resolution to read Evan's very insightful "Dangers of Intervention" on the home page of this website. Sometimes common sense can be "uncommon" or scarce at best...please read this excellent piece by Evan.
regards and Happy New Year.
belair
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varetfed
Junior Member

USA
139 Posts

Posted - January 02 2008 :  4:18:52 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Evan,

Thanks for the outstanding observations and recommendations re concealed carry. Although I have been retired from federal LE service for 16 years, I still carry like I am on the job. I am finding that many of my friends who carry are starting to use common sense and carry at least a second gun, it not another gun or other "defensive equipment." Let's hope and pray that 2008 will not see so many fragile folks going on a killing rampage. Now, having said that, I am afraid that those bent on killing will continue to look for "soft targets" like the "gun free zone" shopping malls, schools and churchs.

Take good care and stay safe.

VARETFED
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lenandbear
New Member

USA
72 Posts

Posted - January 24 2008 :  10:07:30 AM  Show Profile  Send lenandbear an AOL message  Send lenandbear a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
After shooting at Evan's range from the time he opened it and having many conversations with him, I have followed his example. I now will never leave the house without 2 guns, so that I may have one available on either side. My primary is an SA Micro Compact on the strong side and a Kel Tec P3AT on the weak side, and I can shoot with either hand as required. Evan is a great teacher and a really nice person besides that. Bear thinks he is all right too.

If you have no money and few possessions and you have a dog you are still RICH
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CO
Advanced Member

USA
4154 Posts

Posted - January 24 2008 :  10:14:42 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Someday soon I will be able to do so as well. Can't afford the second gun right now/rig for such. Soon.
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Evan
Administrator

34116 Posts

Posted - January 24 2008 :  12:12:03 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
It's been my experience that dogs are uniformly filled with moral fiber and loyalty while few humans are.

"The greatest thing a Father can do for his children is to love their Mother."

Harold B. Lee

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lenandbear
New Member

USA
72 Posts

Posted - January 24 2008 :  11:06:39 PM  Show Profile  Send lenandbear an AOL message  Send lenandbear a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Evan

It's been my experience that dogs are uniformly filled with moral fiber and loyalty while few humans are.


Evann, the older I get and the more I have to do with dogs the less I have to do with people. Dogs are loyal to the core, you can yell at them and even kick them and they wil still love you. I would walk into a wall before I would harm my pal Bear.

If you have no money and few possessions and you have a dog you are still RICH
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Russ Larges
Moderator

USA
2214 Posts

Posted - January 25 2008 :  08:40:09 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Got to admit that Bear is a good dog. He is allways moching treats at the gun club.
Russ

The pistol, learn it well, carry it allways. Jeff Cooper
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Evan
Administrator

34116 Posts

Posted - January 25 2008 :  08:54:51 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hey you feed him and Len doesn't need to

"The greatest thing a Father can do for his children is to love their Mother."

Harold B. Lee

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ought6
Senior Member

USA
713 Posts

Posted - January 25 2008 :  09:13:36 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hey, feed me .... I'll be loyal too. :-)

Psalms 18:34-35 He trains my hands for battle, So that my arms can bend a bow of bronze. (35) You have also given me the shield of Your salvation, And Your right hand upholds me; And Your gentleness makes me great.

ought6
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Bree
Junior Member

USA
114 Posts

Posted - January 27 2008 :  12:12:22 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Evan...

Can't say as there is anything in your post that I disagree with and a whole bunch of things that I agree with 100%. I do use different guns than you but I suppose that is a matter of taste and preference. I think that you have hit many key nails square on the head in your post.

I was thinking yesterday about that line in the sand you speak of in #5 and where it lies with respect to other people whom I might be tempted to defend. Having the capability to defend not only yourself but a third party makes life a good bit more difficult as I am not all that inclined to extend my umbrella to anyone other than me and mine. The price is simply way too high to take the risk in most cases.

I don't think I came to a final conclusion on that one. It conflicts me.

Bree

Ride Safe & Shoot Straight!

Bree
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lenandbear
New Member

USA
72 Posts

Posted - January 27 2008 :  10:14:22 PM  Show Profile  Send lenandbear an AOL message  Send lenandbear a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Russ Larges

Got to admit that Bear is a good dog. He is allways moching treats at the gun club.
Russ



He has a Phd in mooching from doggiie schoool.

If you have no money and few possessions and you have a dog you are still RICH
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Evan
Administrator

34116 Posts

Posted - May 07 2008 :  6:46:16 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
It's not preaching-it's just one Brother looking out for another.

"The greatest thing a Father can do for his children is to love their Mother."

Harold B. Lee

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Gray_Rider
Average Member

USA
387 Posts

Posted - May 08 2008 :  7:47:52 PM  Show Profile  Send Gray_Rider a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
I consider that a great compliment. Your Sermon in a Sentence, "Monsters are everywhere" plays daily in the theater of my mind.
I am reminded of it when I hear about people assaulted or murdered in what the average person would call the safest places or environments. Nobody, it seems, ever informs the bad guys that such places exist. They think of those places in the same way that lions think about watering holes. I have never 'seen the elephant' but I have occasionally heard him trumpeting and moving about.

Gray_Rider
Deo Vindice!
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RGinArizona
Starting Member

USA
31 Posts

Posted - May 22 2008 :  09:30:44 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
As I am always trying to upgrade my skill and educational level I keep trolling around. One of the issues I must admit I have had is "3. Dress around the guns". As one who was probably overly tidy an untucked shirt or baggies pants never did appeal to me. But hell, this issue (concealed carry) is as much political as anything. I consider it a "use or lose" issue. With a little effort and time the clothes are there without looking like a bum. I have started to carry two small DAO pistols rather than an extra magazine. I really like my BIG pistol, but it is not really concealable. But Church..
I have carried to Church for a long time. An assault one day showed how ineffective a bunch of sixty year something men can be against a determined young thug. I don't show and tell, either does the other man I know who carries. But we hope not to go through that again.

Good advice there Evan and others, thanks

Just another East Valley Gun Nut thank you
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Glenn
Advanced Member

USA
1077 Posts

Posted - May 24 2008 :  02:02:47 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
When my model 629 comes out that is all a felon needs to see to know that he is in serious trouble and that if he persists any further with his violent criminal behavior that he will end up in the slumber room of a local funeral home , and that he will die of massive internal bleeding before any emergency personnel ever show up.

Semper Paratus
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Matthew Courtney
Advanced Member

USA
1220 Posts

Posted - May 24 2008 :  02:08:56 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Shoot only to live, not to kill.

You will never begin in the fight you have planned for. You will begin in the fight the other guy has planned for.
Move in a manner that leads him into your fight should he press his attack.
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Evan
Administrator

34116 Posts

Posted - May 24 2008 :  05:05:15 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
We had a teenage girl here take multiple hits from a .44 Magnum fron her ex-boyfriend in the local high school parking lot. They Life Flighted her and she survived.

Nothing is 100% and we'll end up dead if we follow such philosophy AND we don't talk about killing here, only stopping the threat.

"The greatest thing a Father can do for his children is to love their Mother."

Harold B. Lee

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Arvinator
Advanced Member

USA
5252 Posts

Posted - May 24 2008 :  07:08:28 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I am no operator, nor an expert, only a simple person working as a street cop since 1989. I never look forward to using ANY force, I am not afraid to do my job, but I do get scared at times, I own a 4 inch 629, but I don't feel any more of a man with it than I do without it. People are not jello, not animals hunted in the woods, and no two people are alike, shot or not shot.
The best shifts I've worked is when I actually helped someone; change a flat, help find a lost child, and the night I took four young adults from a burning smoke filled house in the middle of the night. No awards, no one was hurt, and best of all, I did something that I felt each time help my fellow man/woman. That's what means the most to me. I carry multiple guns, and practice when I can. That dosen't mean I ever want to or brag about my efforts to be prepard. We live in a society that is uncertain and that makes it more dangerous, the unknown. That's why we go prepared...Evan's post at the first of this makes more sense than some I've seen reply. No insults to anyone, just solid sense, I suggest you take it and use it.

Be honest, fair, and always prepared...
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enidpd804
Advanced Member

1758 Posts

Posted - May 24 2008 :  07:36:45 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Good post, Arvinator. I also have a 4 inch 629, but I would never carry it for SD against people. I would add that it may not be wise to hope that the sight of a firearm will make a serious predator wet himself.

Warren
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Ace
Advanced Member

USA
5049 Posts

Posted - May 24 2008 :  1:59:12 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
It always fascinated me how so many truly bad guys took having .45's and shotguns aimed at them as just another ho-hum part of the day. Ace

Give me $1 every time a Liberal lies, I'll give you $5 every time one tells the truth; I'll end up a wealthy man, you'll end up broke.

Edited by - Ace on May 24 2008 7:07:10 PM
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