StoppingPower.net Forums
Home
Forums
Commentary
H&S
About
StoppingPower.net Forums

StoppingPower.net Forums - Gun for Mom
StoppingPower.net Forums
StoppingPower.net Forums
Forums Home | Profile | Register | Active Topics | Members | Search | FAQ | Invite a friend
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

 All Forums
 The Real World
 Gals & Guns
 Gun for Mom
 New Topic  Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Next Page
Author Previous Topic Topic Next Topic
Page: of 2

AndyB
Starting Member

USA
40 Posts

Posted - February 21 2007 :  12:50:32 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I am in a quandary about a SD firearm for my 82 year old Mom who has arthritis. She has a .38 snubbie loaded with 158 LHP's currently but her arthritic hands are getting worse. She lives alone at her farm which has a county road and has dealt with several incidents of unwanted visitors. On the plus side the local Sheriff's office has had deputies there in under 5 minutes. I am a 1/2 mile away and they got to her house before I made it. It was a case of two car thieves trying to gain entrance to her house for robbery. She came to the door with her .38 and they left.

My concern is that her accuracy with the little .38 is suffering because it hurts to shoot it. I have tried several rifles, with a .357 lever action being the one she kept for a while, but even it was too heavy and awkward for her. She is 5' tall and maybe weighs 100 lbs. I am considering a 9mm carbine as a solution or a small shotgun. I am not familiar with pistol caliber semi-auto carbines but am familiar with youth sized 20 gauge shotguns. Need some advice as home invasions are on the rise in our rural area.

By the way, my Mom raised 5 boys and a daughter without a husband and ran a hardware store for over 30 years. She is one tough lady.

AndyB

ACME - Weapons Division
Senior Member

700 Posts

Posted - February 21 2007 :  1:33:13 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The M1 carbine and the Ruger 10/22 pop to mind if you're thinking of going to the long arm route.

John

Field Testing Engineer
ACME - Weapons Division
"ACME, the Name You Can Trust!"
Go to Top of Page

jle3030
Advanced Member

USA
4992 Posts

Posted - February 21 2007 :  2:46:02 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Ditto on the M1 carbine.

Download the .38 to Nyclad standard loads or something similar. Better she should hit with what she can handle than miss with a more "satisfactory" weapon or load.

Jeff

jle3030
Go to Top of Page

Malcolm
Advanced Member

USA
4008 Posts

Posted - February 21 2007 :  4:02:41 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Agree with above, and we'll keeo some prayers handy for your Mom,

"The measure of a man's character, is how he treats someone who can do nothing for him." (unknown)
Go to Top of Page

AndyB
Starting Member

USA
40 Posts

Posted - February 21 2007 :  4:13:35 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks for the inputs and the prayers. I have a M1 carbine. I'll see if I can get her to try it. If it works, we will be doing some training. Thanks again for the inputs. AndyB
Go to Top of Page

Vafish
Advanced Member

USA
3307 Posts

Posted - February 21 2007 :  5:19:47 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Has she tried an AR-15?

Very light recoil, and if you get the right model nice and light.

"If your plan is for one year, plant rice.
If your plan is for ten years, plant trees.
If your plan is for one hundred years,
educate children." -- Confucius
Go to Top of Page

HEMI
Senior Member

Canada
881 Posts

Posted - February 21 2007 :  7:00:03 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
My mom is a little younger than your mom and tough as nails but with advanced age, eye sight,hearing, reactions etc... I don't know if I am comfortable having her armed. Not saying your mom is not able to shoot or defend herself at all as I don't know her. Does she have a good dog[s]? Could be the best solution armed or not.As far as guns go, a 410 or 20guage shotgun come to mind easy to shoot and won't be a threat to her nieghbours.

kev
Go to Top of Page

BikerRN
Average Member

480 Posts

Posted - February 21 2007 :  7:26:40 PM  Show Profile  Send BikerRN an AOL message  Reply with Quote


My Mother is going to be 87 this year and is still independant and living alone very well.

She isn't however able to handle her revolver any more due to arthritis. She has a Glock 19 and I hope she never needs to reload. The 9mm is pretty easy shooting. For a long gun, if you go the Glock route I'd look at a Kel-Tec Sub 2000. They take Glock magazines and are chambered for the 9mm.

Good luck and God Bless your Mom.

Biker
Go to Top of Page

NukemJim
Average Member

461 Posts

Posted - February 22 2007 :  12:02:26 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Two suggestions

1) get her to try at least to hold in her hand the possible firearms, hopefully let her fire them at a range that lets you sthoot them.

2)Thing outside the box. My mom wound up asking me to buy her a G17 with a laser in it. I hate the thing. Mom put 5 out her first 6 shots in the cardiac silhouete.

Doesn't matter what works for you it is what works for her.

NukemJim

" Half of being smart is knowing what you are dumb at "
Go to Top of Page

Biggfoot44
Advanced Member

2233 Posts

Posted - February 22 2007 :  12:20:40 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Before my Mom passed at 83, I had to deal with this also. Over the years had to change her armament a cpl times. There are many factors, often contradictory, and one solution does not fit all.
Is the problem simply pain upon recoil, or is there trouble with pulling the trigger also ? How is arm and shoulder strength generally ? Are there issues about the wt of the gun so far as being able to hold it up ? Is she fully mobile and stable, or are there mobility or balance problem whereby she would need to use a cane, hold on to wall, etc, and need to be able to shoot one handed ? Does she have long term shooting experience, or is this relativally new to her ?
Alas while we can tweak the technology, you can get too far from simply physics, and at some point may need to step down in cal. My Mom had an intermeadate step at .380, and then was at .22 Mag (full size bbl, 1400 fps). And at some point realize rapid reloads are not in the cards and plan a stratagy around a single gunload.
As she lives alone on a farm, stray rounds making it to neighbors are well done list of concerns.
In one of life's ironies those with the hardest time gunhandling, are usually the ones who most NEED a gun to protect themselves, it's not like she is in shape to tacle felons hand to hand. As long as they can place one round anywhere on torso of attacker from 5 feet away without shooting themselves, they deserve to be armed.
Go to Top of Page

kirb
New Member

USA
80 Posts

Posted - February 22 2007 :  05:34:18 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
It sounds like you may be saying that her biggest problem wrt the arthritis is pulling the trigger? Maybe? I know revolver triggers tend to be heavy in comparison to semi-auto, which is why I have yet to buy one even though I like the reliability of a revolver.

Maybe something with a short, light trigger pull, such as a Springfield XD or a well-tuned Glock would be a good idea. If she can handle the recoil of a .45, a 1911 might even be a good idea, but she might have problems reloading, so the higher capacity of a 9mm would probably be a good thing.

In the long gun arena... as has been noted many times here, you don't gain anything over a pistol, except maybe awkwardness in handling, in a pistol caliber carbine. I agree with the idea of an AR. They have very little recoil, and though I wouldn't call it a reliable factor, the sight of an old lady handling a modern 'military-style' rifle will make the less determined criminals back off pretty quickly. I have a cousin with about the same height/weight characteristics as your mother (though much younger). She won't touch a 20-gauge again after her first few attempts, but she'll readily fire a 9mm handgun or a .410.

In the end, the best advice is to find a range you can take your mother to and have her try things out. The local range here in Austin even has a lady's night where gun rentals are free for women. Your local range may have something similar.
Go to Top of Page

AndyB
Starting Member

USA
40 Posts

Posted - February 22 2007 :  11:09:27 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks to you all for your insights. As to the pain, trigger pull is secondary to recoil (I think). Near as I can tell, it hurts to shoot the handgun more than 10 times. Now, she has an amazing tolerance to pain but her accuracy begins to suffer. I don't have the "courage" to say she doesn't need her .38 because that's her "gun". I am trying to increase the hit probability and effectiveness. My approach will be to concentrate on her ability to deal with varmints and feral dogs with a carbine, which is a year round issue where she lives.

To explain, she lives on 70 acres tucked deep into a valley. She is surrounded by steep hillsides. There are no neighbors except me and I am over 1/2 mile away and up another creek in a hollow. Traffic on the county road is maybe one vehicle per day in good weather and several on weekends. The weekend traffic is mostly folks going to their camps which are several miles further up the road from her house.

Weapons I have tried are: Mini-14 ranch rifle, 10-22, Model 94 Win Trapper in .357. I have not tried the 9mm pistols, but I soon will. When the weather breaks and we can walk around easily. Currently, there is about an inch or so of ice on the ground so practice is not going to happen. I will see if the local dealers have any pistol carbines she can try since most of them were pupils of her's in Sunday school. We have public ranges and private ranges, no commercial ones. Folks around here go behind the house and shoot against the mountain. Mostly clay banks around here.

Again thank you all. AndyB
Go to Top of Page

ACP230
Advanced Member

1056 Posts

Posted - February 22 2007 :  8:46:09 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
My Walther/Manurhin PP in .32 ACP is quite easy to shoot. It holds more rounds than a revolver too.
My Charter Arms Pathfinder .22 is easy to shoot also. It is a nice solid-feeling little three inch revolver.

I realize these are a step, or two, down in power, but would be better than no gun.
The Pathfinder is an older one so the cylinder can be released by pulling forward on the ejection rod. IME that is easier than using the thumb latch and I've just started dealing with Arthur Itis.

"Never part with your weapons when you are in the field. You never know when, on some lengthy plain, you may suddenly need your spear." Old Norse saying.
Go to Top of Page

Dr Liv
Moderator

1613 Posts

Posted - February 23 2007 :  09:51:28 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Snubby revolvers have the worst recoil of any handgun. If she wants to continue with a revolver, get her one with a longer barrel and as much weight as she can handle, to reduce the recoil.

You could go to a smaller caliber if .38 is becoming too much for her to handle. Yes, it is the "minimum" effective round, but won't do her any good if she can't place her shots with it.

If she goes with a semi auto, she will have to be aware that unless she can manipulate the slide or clear a stoppage with her arthritic hands, it will be good for only one magazine or less.

Adding a backup gun somewhere it is easily and quickly accessible would be a good idea. If she is concerned about grandchildren or others possibly getting access to it, get her one of the under-counter safes that can be mounted out of sight under a table, with digital push button lock, where she can store a loaded handgun for quick access for a New York reload option.

I would definitely stay away from the shotgun if she is recoil sensitive. I imagine it could knock her right off her feet. If she has frail bones it could even break or dislocate her collarbone, and elderly people bleed easily so it would at least cause a heck of a bruise.

I'm thinking the Beretta Storm in 9mm as a good one to try. It's not real heavy or long and the recoil is nothing. The M4 and M1 have more front end weight, which is harder for a small person to hold up. At the close quarters she is concerned about, 9mm should be perfectly adequate.

Kudos to her and to you for keeping her safe and protected!

Edited by - Dr Liv on February 23 2007 09:55:20 AM
Go to Top of Page

AndyB
Starting Member

USA
40 Posts

Posted - February 23 2007 :  10:33:55 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Dr. Liv, thank you for your input. The Storm or similar carbine is where my thinking is going. Now, getting that revolver retired is another story!

She wants a shotgun but I agree with you that the recoil, especially with the lighter guns would punish her. You can tell her she is too frail!
My excuse will be that for varmints, the shotgun is not the way to go. She has a very full garden each year and the shot would tear up more plants than any groundhog. That's my story and I'm sticking too it!

Too all members who replied, thanks for the inputs, they really helped me. AndyB
Go to Top of Page

BikerRN
Average Member

480 Posts

Posted - February 23 2007 :  12:10:52 PM  Show Profile  Send BikerRN an AOL message  Reply with Quote


I'm going to re-suggest the KelTec Sub 2000.

It comes in 9mm and you can get one that takes Glock magazines. I find the Sub 2000 to be pretty light recoiling. The reason I suggested a Glock was because of magazine compatability between the two firearms. Also, with 15+ rounds on tap it should be a while before she has to reload, and that is something you can do for her when you visit.

Also, if she shoots the Glock dry the slide should lock back. In that case she could reload a magazine and then use the edge of a table to manipulate the slide stop lever. Another thing, Glock makes 33 round magazines. They work well and you have an almost endless ammo supply for a handgun and they work well in the Sub 2000 as well.

Biker
Go to Top of Page

BikerRN
Average Member

480 Posts

Posted - March 11 2007 :  12:26:49 AM  Show Profile  Send BikerRN an AOL message  Reply with Quote


Hey Andy,

How about an update on your Mom?

Biker
Go to Top of Page

AndyB
Starting Member

USA
40 Posts

Posted - March 11 2007 :  3:46:24 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Biker, as a first step, I picked some low recoil .38s from Federal. Will try those when I stay in town long enough. I am a consultant to several companies that support various parts of the military. I am just paying for my past sins. This week is supposed to be pretty nice and I will be home, so we'll fire up the backyard range and get some shooting in. I also have the .30 carbine ready to rock, so she can try that. AndyB
Go to Top of Page

BikerRN
Average Member

480 Posts

Posted - March 19 2007 :  8:53:11 PM  Show Profile  Send BikerRN an AOL message  Reply with Quote


Kewl Andy.

Good luck and I hope you both stay safe.

Biker
Go to Top of Page

Chuck
Advanced Member

USA
3284 Posts

Posted - March 31 2007 :  06:51:50 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The Pachmayr Decelerator grips are a great option for the snub. Not sure what gun she's using, but the set I put on my 640 made magnum ammo bearable, .38s darn right fun to shoot. I would seriously think about most practice being with wadcutters.

I second the M1 carbine, very light, powerful, accurate for the use needed, low recoil, easy to operate.
Go to Top of Page

mikebco
Starting Member

USA
27 Posts

Posted - April 15 2007 :  4:56:31 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'd go with the Beretta Storm in 9mm. Light recoil and plenty of accessories. A rail mounted flashlight is probably all she will need to stay on target 15yds or less....
Go to Top of Page

Glenn
Advanced Member

USA
1077 Posts

Posted - August 28 2008 :  10:15:22 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
My grandmother is 74 and she is most comfortable with a .22 revolver but get your mom what she is comfortable with.

Semper Paratus
Go to Top of Page

AndyB
Starting Member

USA
40 Posts

Posted - August 31 2008 :  10:54:48 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Glenn, my mom has a .22 revolver and her .38 snub. She tried the light loads and she can get acceptable accuracy at under 25 feet. She decided in June to build a new house, since the one she owned was 105 years old and built as an old boarding house for the lumbermen and masons building the railroad through our part of the world in early 1900's. So her range time has been limited, and she finally got a set of glasses that allow her to see the sights and targets.

She has killed numerous rats, woodchucks, rabbits and snakes with the .22. I also loaded up some .38 shotshells for snakes and some 110 grain Remington hollowpoints for her .38 for practice. She is looking for a light, short rifle and we will be looking for probably a pistol carbine in 9mm. The lever actions are too heavy for her and something a bit lighter than the .30 carbine would work. She really can't see the peep sights on the carbine but she is "use to" the standard post and notch sights. Thanks for your input. AndyB
Go to Top of Page

Dov
Advanced Member

USA
2638 Posts

Posted - October 07 2008 :  10:01:38 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Any updates?
Go to Top of Page

AndyB
Starting Member

USA
40 Posts

Posted - October 10 2008 :  09:21:09 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Dov, not really. She still hasn't moved into her new home, so I am hoping to get her out to the range. She currently uses Federal 110 grain HS which she can handle without pain. I am still trying to convince her to get a rifle of some sort. With her arthritis, manipulating magazines, safety, bolt etc. must be carefully selected to insure she is physically capable of doing the manual of arms safely. Oh, and soft recoil is good. AndyB
Go to Top of Page

Evan
Administrator

34116 Posts

Posted - October 10 2008 :  09:51:40 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Ruger 10/22 with Butler Creek 25 rnd mag loaded with Mini Mag hp's-have several of these with the steel lips and they're flawless.

"The greatest thing a Father can do for his children is to love their Mother."

Harold B. Lee

Go to Top of Page
Page: of 2 Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
Next Page
 New Topic  Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Jump To:
StoppingPower.net Forums © 2002-16 StoppingPower.net, Inc. Go To Top Of Page
Thispagewasgeneratedin0.27seconds. Snitz Forums 2000