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 Fed .40 mystery solved!
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TONY
Advanced Member

USA
3412 Posts

Posted - November 20 2006 :  7:20:21 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
OK, I got my 155gr, silver box today. Part # 40SWB. They are in a silver box, they say Classic AND HI-SHOK.

The HST that I already had part number is P40HST2.

Now, for the solved part, I know what the difference is!!

One is in a silver box, has brass colored case.

The other has a GOLD box, fancy chrome case and, drum roll please......a picture of an expanded round!!

Must be the photo that increases the price so much....

The projectiles look exactly the same......

Stay Safe,

TONY

Evan
Administrator

32694 Posts

Posted - November 20 2006 :  8:23:57 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
the HST's 155gr in the silver box have a number thats starts with an X.

"The greatest thing a Father can do for his children is to love their Mother."

Harold B. Lee

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Tact81Cop
Advanced Member

USA
1522 Posts

Posted - November 21 2006 :  4:23:20 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Tony, the 40SWB is our duty load. I believe there are metalurgy differences between the Classic bullet and the HST.

Molon labe
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TONY
Advanced Member

USA
3412 Posts

Posted - November 21 2006 :  5:42:36 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
They look the same to me, I doubt the BG will care, neither will the targets at the range.

What I now want to know is, is one any more effective than the other?? I sure like the price.

Stay Safe,

TONY
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Ten Driver
Advanced Member

1192 Posts

Posted - November 22 2006 :  01:15:38 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Tony,

Unless I'm reading your post wrong, there still seems to be some confusion. Let me see if I can help.

The #40SWB load is the traditional design JHP, marketed as Hi-Shok or Classic. This load was recently discontinued by Federal (2005). Before it was discontinued, this load was my #1 choice for all my .40s, and I liked it a lot. Evan's most recent book ("Stopping Power") listed this as an 89% load based on 139 shootings.

When that load was discontinued, I began the search for a replacement. I finally settled on the HST in the same weight, which as you noted is #P40HST2. The HST bullet is much more advanced than the Classic/Hi Shok bullet used in the #40SWB load. The HST bullet is designed to give much better expansion through a wide spectrum of intermediate barriers. The #40SWB uses a "Plain" bullet, the #P40HST2 uses an advanced bullet.

The "Federal Law Enforcement" ammo sold by Cheaper Than Dirt is similar to the #P40HST2 ammo. As Evan noted in a previous post, the only difference is the use of a brass case (vs. nickel) and the packaging. The HST bullet is used in this ammo, which has part # XM40HB.

The #XM40HB ammo that I bought from Cheaper Than Dirt was packaged in a nondescript blue and silver box. It is NOT marked "Classic" or "Hi Shok." If your boxes are marked that way, you probably bought the #40SWB ammo.

Because Federal is no longer cataloging the #40SWB, they aren't listing ballistics info on their website for comparison. However, in Evan's second book, "Street Stoppers" the #40 SWB was listed as performing in this manner (bare gelatin):

Vel=1140, Pene Depth=12.0, Final Dia=0.65

From the current Federal literature, here is the performance for the P40HST2 (bare gelatin):

Vel=1139, Pene Depth=10.8, Final Dia=.845

I know this doesn't tell the whole story that you're looking for, but that's about as detailed as I can get with the available resources.

You can rest assured that the HST is the superior bullet, and this superiority would be even more clear if you compared performance after barrier penetration. The HST bullet will outclass the Hi Shok bullet in every test.

V/R
Mike



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TONY
Advanced Member

USA
3412 Posts

Posted - November 22 2006 :  09:32:52 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks Mike, yes, the part numbers I listed are what I have. Now, I'm no expert but the projectiles look, to my naked eye, the same.

I also have 165gr, .40, part number LE40T3, Federal Tactical which, from what I've read, is better suited for those with a higher chance of facing barriers.

I have the gold box HST's. If the silver box, XM40HB is also an HST as Evan pointed out it's much less expensive than the fancy gold box with the picture of the expanded bullet.

Anyway, here's how the prices break down per 1000:

AMMOMAN: P40HST, $249.00, 40SWB, $289.00. No shipping charge

Cheaper Than Dirt: XM40SWB, $217.00. Don't know how much they charge for shipping.

Now, I'm not a CTD employee and I don't play one on TV but since this is an HST with a different part number I know which place I'm placing my next order with!

Stay Safe,

TONY
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Evan
Administrator

32694 Posts

Posted - November 22 2006 :  10:26:10 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
make sure they have some left-its an ill-kept secret

"The greatest thing a Father can do for his children is to love their Mother."

Harold B. Lee

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TONY
Advanced Member

USA
3412 Posts

Posted - November 22 2006 :  11:36:12 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yeah, I guess I just told the world

Stay Safe,

TONY
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Ten Driver
Advanced Member

1192 Posts

Posted - November 22 2006 :  12:17:06 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
No doubt it's a good deal! I ordered 500 rounds of XM40HB from CTD and paid $138.76, including shipping.

Mike
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Ten Driver
Advanced Member

1192 Posts

Posted - November 22 2006 :  2:11:26 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I was going through the 2007 Federal LE catalog a little more and I noticed something interesting: The #40SWB is still there in the LE catalog, even though it is no longer listed on the commercial side.

As I noted previously, when it was discontinued on the commercial side I began looking around a bit and "discovered" the HST. Even though the HST is an LE-catalog-only item, I was still able to get it through Ammoman, so I was content to make that my new standard. Nobody had any #40SWB stock left at that time, so I had to find some kind of replacement.

I see now that the #40SWB is in the LE catalog and as you mentioned Tony, Ammoman has it in stock again. I'll stick with the HST, since I think it is a better bullet, but I'm glad to see the #40SWB available again. I always liked that load.

V/R
Mike
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Tact81Cop
Advanced Member

USA
1522 Posts

Posted - November 22 2006 :  3:31:59 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Ten Driver,

I was going to question the "discontinuation" of 40SWB. As I stated, that is our issue ammo and we have had no problems ordering it. Thanks for clarifying that it is still an LE load.

Molon labe
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Frogfoot
Senior Member

USA
713 Posts

Posted - August 28 2009 :  05:32:26 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Um, I think you're on the wrong site here.

We make a living by what we get, we make a life by what we give. - Sir Winston Churchill
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Evan
Administrator

32694 Posts

Posted - August 28 2009 :  08:32:26 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
He, she, it-is goned

"The greatest thing a Father can do for his children is to love their Mother."

Harold B. Lee

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TONY
Advanced Member

USA
3412 Posts

Posted - August 28 2009 :  11:27:03 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Well on a lighter note, all of that .40 is as folows;

155 gr Fed Classic Hi-Shock
155 gr Fed HST
165 gr Fed Tactical

my Kahr CW .40 does not like the Hi-Shock but is 100% with the HST and Tactical.

Glock 22 & 27 likes everything

Stay Safe,

TONY
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