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Evan
Administrator
27509 Posts |
 Posted - May 28 2008 : 06:37:07 AM
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years ago when I 1st joined DPD many officers did what was called "Dutch Loading" and would alternate jhp's and armour piercing. I was present for two shootings where they missed with with jhp and hit with the AP with no success.
rounds of various weights and power produce differences in slide velocity and frankly DPX works so darn well regardless of target I see no need for mixing loads. |
"The greatest thing a Father can do for his children is to love their Mother."
Harold B. Lee
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whiskeymike
Junior Member
USA
185 Posts |
Posted - May 28 2008 : 06:46:04 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by WSUcougar
I know I'm a newbie, And I've always heard not to do this, And I've never tried it myself.
But while we're on the the topic of the picking the "best" 6 loads, we can only put one magazine in each of the guns we carry.
Why would we not put a bullet of each design in the same mag? I read several gun testing reviews where the authors test guns by mixing up different ammo in the same mag but it's always followed by "the XgunX ran flawlessly"
If, say we put a DPX followed by a pow'rBall then a Glasser safety slug followed by a gold dot, into a mag and ran it through the gun "flawlessly" why couldn't we have the best of both worlds and not worry about each round's strengths and weaknesses as far as penetration, expansion, barriers, velocity, +p whatever?
I guess my real question is why have we been told that mixing mags is unsafe? And if the reliability is there why would we chose only one "top six" round to carry?
By the way, I carry a G19 and G26 with DPX in the 19 and Gold dot 124+p in the 26. Don't know why. Just tested the rounds in the respective guns as I bought them and haven't had a reason to change.
-coug
I'm going to let those wiser than I answer the question of mixed mags, other than to say it doesn't "feel" right to me.
I tend to think you would be better to pick a round and keep shooting.
On the subject of what you carry, I have the same 2 guns, and use the same 2 loads,but load them opposite to what you do.
My reading indicates the DPX will cook along at just short of 1200 fps from a G26; this is still close to its advertised velocity, thus should perform as intended.
OTOH, the GD load is intended for a service pistol; Speer actually has a Short Barrel load in GD for the 9mm.
What I'm trying to say is that the DPX should perform well in the G26, whereas the "standard" GD+P is at a disadvantage in the short barrel. I think the G19/124+P GD is the standard NYPD load; I'm sure someone will correct this if I'm wrong.
YMMV.
Edit: Looks like Evan posted while I was typing. |
whiskeymike
Kennesaw, GA.
NRA Life Member
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Edited by - whiskeymike on May 28 2008 06:47:13 AM |
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Chuck
Advanced Member
USA
2673 Posts |
Posted - May 28 2008 : 08:18:28 AM
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+P Gold Dot works fine from the G26.
A thought; If we should fire 100 or 200 (depending on who you ask) rounds of our carry load through our pistol before we trust it with that load, then it would make sense that if we loaded our magazines with X number of types of ammo we would then have to fire 100-200 of each of those loads before we should trust that each will feed/fire/etc. |
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WSUcougar
Junior Member
167 Posts |
Posted - May 29 2008 : 8:22:47 PM
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WhiskeyMike- Great minds think alike right? last year when I started carrying the G26 I Chronoed the 124+p gold dots and found them to be very consistent at an average of 1187fps out of my gun. Thats not truly scientific data, its just what the ammo and pistol produced as an average of five sets of five as I adjusted the new XS big dots. I have yet to try the short barrel load but it would be interesting to see the difference. - hope that helps.
Chuck- sounds expensive, especially with all the Corbon rounds!
GW- I agree with you and believe that the writers believed they were performing a torture test. However I have never heard of anyone citing mixed rounds as a reason for a malfunction. Bad rounds sure, but not mixed rounds.
Thanks guys, I guess I was hoping someone would tell me that they had witnessed mixed rounds in a mag cause a failure, because I've only ever heard of it actually working. Just trying to bust the rumor that it causes failures. too much discovery channel I guess.
-coug |
Awareness, Confidence and Assertiveness. If that fails, Immediate Violence of Action and Maneuver. |
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Glenn
Senior Member
USA
960 Posts |
Posted - June 06 2008 : 7:38:55 PM
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| I am a big fan of the Remington GS and currently all my SD handguns are loaded with it. |
Semper Paratus |
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mojo
Advanced Member
USA
1513 Posts |
Posted - June 06 2008 : 9:58:18 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by gw
WSUcougar
I don't know if I can remember a case of mixed ammo causing a specific malfunction. But I can't think of a single large agency, military unit, or well known trainer that recommends the practice.
Well I don't know if it was mixed ammo or not but, we used to put one tracer for every four ball in our M16 mags over in Vietnam back in the good old days 1967-1968. Sure made it easy to control our full auto fire if you watched your tracers. I really preferred the M60 myself! |
"In these modern times, many men are wounded for not having weapons or knowledge of their use."
-Achille Marozzo, 1536
"I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people, except for a few public officials.
To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
-George Mason |
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revjen45
Advanced Member
1009 Posts |
Posted - June 07 2008 : 12:37:15 PM
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I carry 147 gr JHP WWB. It probably won't fail to penetrate a leather jacket. One factor is being able to afford to shoot enough of something to be sure it will work. All those hi-tech loads are undoubtedly just dandy, but 200 rds to verify reliability gets pretty spendy.
Re: Dutch loading. If the rounds work in the gun with a full mag, why would they malfunction if mixed? Not advocating the practice, just wondering. |
Better to perish in the struggle for freedom than live to see defeat. |
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Biggfoot44
Advanced Member
1713 Posts |
Posted - June 14 2008 : 1:51:09 PM
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| Back in the dark ages, most auto were pick about what if any JHP's they were reliable with. Back then would would often use a ( fill in blank desireable load) in the chamber , and less likely to expand ( but reliable) jhp or even fmj in mag. As soon as typical guns would feed most loads , this practice became a trivia question. |
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whiskeymike
Junior Member
USA
185 Posts |
Posted - June 14 2008 : 3:13:46 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Biggfoot44
Back in the dark ages, most auto were pick about what if any JHP's they were reliable with. Back then would would often use a ( fill in blank desireable load) in the chamber , and less likely to expand ( but reliable) jhp or even fmj in mag. As soon as typical guns would feed most loads , this practice became a trivia question.
Yeah, I can remember Super Vel in the chamber, with FMJ in the mag.Amazing how things have improved in both guns and the loads. |
whiskeymike
Kennesaw, GA.
NRA Life Member
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roadrage
Starting Member
USA
8 Posts |
Posted - June 14 2008 : 7:47:25 PM
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| Has anyone tested Fiocchi 9APHP? They show 1250fps and 400ft.lbs. on their website. For use within a house this seems more tha adequate and the price is right($16.00) for 50rds. |
No matter where you go, there you are. |
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Chuck
Advanced Member
USA
2673 Posts |
Posted - June 15 2008 : 01:21:20 AM
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I know a large agency that has used that load for issued duty 9mm, they were less than pleased with the reliability of the Fiocchi in their guns.
I would spend the extra money for one of the major brand named loads. |
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roadrage
Starting Member
USA
8 Posts |
Posted - June 15 2008 : 2:49:30 PM
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Thanks for the info, Chuck. |
No matter where you go, there you are. |
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Gearhead Jim
Junior Member
USA
163 Posts |
Posted - June 15 2008 : 3:19:40 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Evan
9BPLE is hard on guns...
Interesting. My small PD switched from WW 115+P+ to 9BPLE a couple of years ago, I chronographed every lot we recieved using the same gun and same chrono each time. The WW +P+ was always faster by 20-40 fps, and always had more felt recoil. Just another mystery... |
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Ammoload518
Junior Member
USA
155 Posts |
Posted - June 17 2008 : 9:44:33 PM
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Hello group, I carry the following loads:
9BPLE 115
Speer 124 +P
Fed 124 HST SP
WW/Rem 115 JHP
Fed. 9BP 115 SP
Be safe, Mark |
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Arvinator
Advanced Member
USA
1809 Posts |
Posted - June 18 2008 : 12:39:57 AM
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| There are several good loads out there, I have had Remington +P Golden Sabre, +P+ Federal 115 grain JHP's, and a few Corbon's. I think any hollowpoint with a good track record as in Evan's books should do you just fine. Knowing when and how to use you 9mm is more crucial than what to use in it with today's loads... |
Be honest, fair, and always prepared... |
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whiskeymike
Junior Member
USA
185 Posts |
Posted - June 18 2008 : 07:39:38 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Arvinator
There are several good loads out there, I have had Remington +P Golden Sabre, +P+ Federal 115 grain JHP's, and a few Corbon's. I think any hollowpoint with a good track record as in Evan's books should do you just fine. Knowing when and how to use you 9mm is more crucial than what to use in it with today's loads...
Isn't it amazing that, in the space of a relatively few years (my adult lifetime), we've gone from 9mm being a "military" round,i.e. hardball only, to having so many good high performance rounds.
After reading Evan's books and this and other sites, I believe you could use almost ANY 115-127 +P or +P+ and get excellent results if you do your job.
There are even standard pressure loads (Federal 9BP) which have done very well.
And, of course, 9mm isn't the only caliber to have benefitted: see .38 special,.45 ACP, etc.
Interesting times, indeed.
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whiskeymike
Kennesaw, GA.
NRA Life Member
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Chuck
Advanced Member
USA
2673 Posts |
Posted - June 18 2008 : 08:52:58 AM
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We do have it good here.
I talk to folks in other countries often. Folks in most other places can't get anything but 9mm, maybe .38, .380 or .32, if they can get pistols and ammo at all.
In most places if you want JHPs you have to be able to find the bullets and handload them yourself. |
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pcolvario
Junior Member
USA
232 Posts |
Posted - June 18 2008 : 12:02:48 PM
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| Is it weird that I stopped worrying about the ammo in my carry pistol about a year ago? I settled on Speer Gold Dot 124gr +p. It is easy to come by, even if you have to buy 20 rd boxes. DPX, though I have some, and did carry it a while, was just too darn hard to find, and when I did it was always more expensive. I couldn't rotate and practice with it properly. Load choice is just a hobby now, I rarely stray from a round I know will function and has a track record. |
Perfect is the enemy of good enough. |
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whiskeymike
Junior Member
USA
185 Posts |
Posted - June 18 2008 : 1:22:08 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by pcolvario
Is it weird that I stopped worrying about the ammo in my carry pistol about a year ago? I settled on Speer Gold Dot 124gr +p. It is easy to come by, even if you have to buy 20 rd boxes. DPX, though I have some, and did carry it a while, was just too darn hard to find, and when I did it was always more expensive. I couldn't rotate and practice with it properly. Load choice is just a hobby now, I rarely stray from a round I know will function and has a track record.
If I'm reading correctly, that GD load is standard for NYPD, and is apparently doing well. |
whiskeymike
Kennesaw, GA.
NRA Life Member
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pcolvario
Junior Member
USA
232 Posts |
Posted - June 18 2008 : 3:36:58 PM
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| Well it is the standard for a reason. It tested well, it runs flawlessly in most 9mm loadings. It fires to point of aim for all fixed combat sight 9mm pistols. Ultimately you need to do a little research, find a load you are comfortable with, and start practicing like there is no tomorrow. My greatest challenge in the whole self defense continuum is not ammo selection, its training and practice. I find myself doing dry fire practice a lot lately. If we spent half as much time practicing as we do worrying about our defensive loading, we would be in good shape. |
Perfect is the enemy of good enough. |
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Clarkston_CZ
Starting Member
14 Posts |
Posted - June 18 2008 : 6:14:25 PM
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I live a few miles from Speer. That is what you see in the local gunshops.
Never seen any DPX or HST stuff out here, and Ranger ammo is Expensive
when you do find it. |
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john wist
Starting Member
29 Posts |
Posted - June 20 2008 : 12:00:46 AM
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| I also like the 127 grain +P+ load my question is will the 92FS safely handle that round. I would only use it for self defense and not really shoot much of it for practice. Only enough to confirm reliability. |
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Evan
Administrator
27509 Posts |
Posted - June 20 2008 : 08:16:47 AM
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| I shot a ton of CB 115gr +p and Fed and Win +P+ thru my 92D without isses. |
"The greatest thing a Father can do for his children is to love their Mother."
Harold B. Lee
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2upFZ1
Starting Member
USA
1 Posts |
Posted - July 29 2008 : 3:46:13 PM
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| Has there been any advances in 9mm technology since this thread started a few years ago? I am looking at the new Ruger SR9 for home defence (wife has super small hands and the SR9 should fit nicely). But this weekend we are going to a gun show so she can try the SR9 and XD-45 to see which fits well in her hands. |
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Ace
Advanced Member
USA
1417 Posts |
Posted - July 29 2008 : 5:10:13 PM
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| I'm depending on the Federal 115gr +p+ and Winchester Ranger 115gr +p+, they work quite well in two of my guns. Works good in another gun, too, but for POA/POI it likes Speer Gold Dot 124gr +p better. I gather from the various discussions on this site that any of the name-brand ammo will do what it's supposed to do, as long as it's placed properly, and functions flawlessly (!) in your gun. One guy here seems to be really enamored of the CorBon DPX. Ace |
Pray for President Obama. Start with Psalm 109:8
If you don't care to stand behind our troops, feel free to stand in front of them. |
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Top Six Loads for 9mm?
