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Center Shot
Starting Member
USA
16 Posts |
 Posted - July 19 2006 : 10:19:37 PM
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Recently Chuck Taylor had a article in Combat Handguns, called "6 favorite loads for the Glock 17" His top loads were as follows:
1. Hornaday custom 115 XTP JHP
2. Cor-Bon 115 +P JHP
3. Winchester 115 Silvertip JHP
4. Federal 124 Hydra-Shok JHP
5. Winchester Ranger 127 SXT +P+ JHP
6. Cor-Bon 125 +P JHP
I am surprised, that he does not mention Gold Dot, Golden Saber, or Federal HST. Or any ammo with a 147 grain bullet. What is your top six loads for the 9mm for self defense and law enforcement purposes? Thank You. |
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Hunting Coyotes
Junior Member
107 Posts |
Posted - July 19 2006 : 11:31:49 PM
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I am certainly not putting Hornady at the top of my list...always seems to chrono less than advertised and expansion is less than other SD rounds. Federal HST 124 and Gold dot 124+p are tops in my experience.
I would think that Winchester Ranger 127 SXT +P+ JHP would be the top choice from his list. I also think reliability in your particular gun is the most important factor...this was low on his list. I'm certainly no expert, but I question his choices and rationale for choosing the "best" rounds.
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garrettwc
Senior Member
739 Posts |
Posted - July 20 2006 : 12:19:50 AM
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In no particular order-
Corbon DPX 115
Speer Gold Dot 124 +P
Winchester Ranger 127+P+
Federal Tactical and HST 124
Federal 9BPLE 115 +P+
Remington Golden Sabers |
"Let us speak courteously, deal fairly, and keep ourselves armed and ready."
Teddy Roosevelt - San Francisco, CA, May 13, 1903 |
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enidpd804
Senior Member
986 Posts |
Posted - July 20 2006 : 12:24:25 AM
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I read the article. It's the first gunmag I've bought in over a year. That's why I don't buy gunmags.
Mr. Taylor is an excellent writer and I respect his opinion. His criteria was not based on stopping power alone. He wrote of accuracy, feeding, muzzle flash, expansion, penetration, etc. Overall, I'd have to agree that if he trusts round A over round B given his criteria, he should use it.
Additionally, if Chuck Taylor, Dick Barber, Clint Smith, et al, took me aside and advised me on grip, stance, tactics or whatever, I'd listen intently and pay for the privilege. I might not take their advice on SD ammunition, though. I've done my own research and believe that I can make an informed choice of what best suits my needs. When it comes to stopping power, most gun writers take the, "because I said so" attitude of why their chosen round is the best. The simple fact is there probably is no "best."
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Evan
Administrator
26750 Posts |
Posted - July 20 2006 : 09:28:09 AM
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we all need to work out our own salvation in this regard-if I were to carry a 9MM my loads in order of preference
DPX
Win 127gr +p+
Win 124gr
CB 115gr +p
Speer 124gr +p
Rem GS 124gr +p
BUT-if I didn't have any DPX I'd carry another caliber I had it for until I got some 9MM DPX |
"The greatest thing a Father can do for his children is to love their Mother."
Harold B. Lee
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dennis strapon
Senior Member
USA
745 Posts |
Posted - July 20 2006 : 1:36:17 PM
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| Evan, What is the majot difference between the 127+P+ load and the Winchester 124 gr . load???? I have not read or heard much about the 124 gr. load from W-W.Also, Has the BPLE load fallen out of favor with you completely? |
dennis R. strapon |
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pcolvario
Junior Member
USA
230 Posts |
Posted - July 20 2006 : 2:05:58 PM
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Corbon DPX 9mm
Speer Gold Dot 124 +p
Federal HST 124gr
Golden Saber 124gr Bonded +p
Federal Tactical 135gr +p
Federal 115gr 9BP/WWB 9mm JHP
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Perfect is the enemy of good enough. |
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Evan
Administrator
26750 Posts |
Posted - July 20 2006 : 2:25:28 PM
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| the 124gr is a +p that offers good expansion and penetration with less wear&tear than the +p+ |
"The greatest thing a Father can do for his children is to love their Mother."
Harold B. Lee
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TONY
Advanced Member
USA
2749 Posts |
Posted - July 20 2006 : 2:38:07 PM
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| I quit reading anything by CT when he tried to convince his reades that .45 FMJ was a better stopper than .357 SJHP |
Stay Safe,
TONY |
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Kevin
Advanced Member
USA
1614 Posts |
Posted - July 20 2006 : 4:17:25 PM
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If I were in charge of my agency's ammo selection it would be:
1. DPX
2. Win 127 +P+
3. Win SXT 124 +P
4. Speer Gold Dot 124 +P
5. Federal 124 +P Tactical Bonded
6. Federal 124 +P HST
Oh, if only!
Regards,
Kevin |
"Fast is fine, accuracy is final..." |
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dennis strapon
Senior Member
USA
745 Posts |
Posted - July 20 2006 : 4:53:14 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Kevin
If I were in charge of my agency's ammo selection it would be:
1. DPX
2. Win 127 +P+
3. Win SXT 124 +P
4. Speer Gold Dot 124 +P
5. Federal 124 +P Tactical Bonded
6. Federal 124 +P HST
Oh, if only!
Regards,
Kevin
Kevin, Is there a major difference between the Speer 124 Gr +P G,D. Load and the 124 Gr. +P Winchester load? Thanks. Dennis. |
dennis R. strapon |
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Center Shot
Starting Member
USA
16 Posts |
Posted - July 20 2006 : 6:17:55 PM
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| Evan, what do you think the one shot stop percentage would be for the 9mm DPX? |
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Evan
Administrator
26750 Posts |
Posted - July 20 2006 : 6:29:08 PM
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| no idea |
"The greatest thing a Father can do for his children is to love their Mother."
Harold B. Lee
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pcolvario
Junior Member
USA
230 Posts |
Posted - July 20 2006 : 10:22:08 PM
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| I would think it difficult to predict a OSS stat just based on the data that these wonderful folks here catalogue and make available to us. What has been shown by the testing of DPX is that it is a consistent performer in TESTS. This goes along way towards telling us how it SHOULD perform in a real world environment. Chuck made a comment about Gold Dots a few months back that pointed to the consistency of Gold Dots being such that it was boring. It seems that those loads that are consistent performers with consistent results tend to end up being the top loads. |
Perfect is the enemy of good enough. |
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Biggfoot44
Advanced Member
1574 Posts |
Posted - July 21 2006 : 08:43:21 AM
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| To put Chuck Taylor's preferences into perspective, in his other writings he also tells of his interest in handgun hunting. He has gotten good results on Mule Deer with 115 XTP's, so that undoubtably contributes to his high regard for it as an all around loading. |
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Kevin
Advanced Member
USA
1614 Posts |
Posted - July 21 2006 : 7:45:47 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by dennis strapon
Kevin, Is there a major difference between the Speer 124 Gr +P G,D. Load and the 124 Gr. +P Winchester load? Thanks. Dennis.
Dennis - probably not a hill of beans worth! I just have had FANTASTIC luck with the shootability and accuracy of the SXT load - not that the Gold Dot is any slouch. I'd be perfectly happy with either...
Regards,
Kevin |
"Fast is fine, accuracy is final..." |
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Chuck
Advanced Member
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - July 22 2006 : 07:13:39 AM
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From actually having seen the use and after effects of these 9mm loads, I've only got a top three.
I'd pick the 124gr +p Gold Dot for a general police issue load, because cops often have to shoot folks in cars, and it's worked so well for my dept., and the NYPD, for years. Very reliable ammo in a wide variety of guns (we've gone from S&W 9mms to Glocks, allow off-duty or back-up with any reliable brand on gun)
Win 127+P+ for pure SD (although it is a superb police issue load also), just because it acts so much like the 125gr .357 mag when it hits people or deer. Beats the guns up some though.
The 124gr Win +p, a little less intense than the 127 but a good solid load, and very reliable in our Glocks.
I've just gotten a few boxes of DPX for T&E, although I find it very promising, I have no experience with it yet. I intend to change that very soon.
Looks like very good cop ammo though, very possibly would take over my mental spot of 'best general issue police load'. I listen closely when guys like Evan, John Farnum and Jim Cirillo talk.
From having seen gello shoots I like the Ranger-T and HST alot, I even think the 147gr loads in both are good, but I prefer faster rounds.
FWIW, I'm disregarding sectional density for observed reality, in that the last two gello shoots I watched the 127gr Win out penetrated the 147gr Ranger ammo, with the 124gr +p coming in behind both. All loads went between 12"-15" so I really don't think that penetration would be what I based my choice on with the Ranger-T 9mm loads.
In gello you can't tell the 127gr 9mm from the Win .357Sig load. Hmmmmmm......... I wonder why I like that 127gr ammo so much? |
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Vafish
Advanced Member
USA
3260 Posts |
Posted - July 22 2006 : 08:52:04 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Evan
we all need to work out our own salvation in this regard-if I were to carry a 9MM my loads in order of preference
DPX
Win 127gr +p+
Win 124gr
CB 115gr +p
Speer 124gr +p
Rem GS 124gr +p
BUT-if I didn't have any DPX I'd carry another caliber I had it for until I got some 9MM DPX
No 9BPLE? |
"If your plan is for one year, plant rice.
If your plan is for ten years, plant trees.
If your plan is for one hundred years,
educate children." -- Confucius |
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dennis strapon
Senior Member
USA
745 Posts |
Posted - July 22 2006 : 08:54:29 AM
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| Chuck, I agree that the W-W 127 gr. load is a Dandy. I have heard that it is hard on Guns however, with extended use. I don't believe that occasional use in practice - "Occasional" should cause any real concern. Would you agree or disagree. I respect our opinion. Thanks. Dennis. |
dennis R. strapon |
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Center Shot
Starting Member
USA
16 Posts |
Posted - July 22 2006 : 10:22:12 AM
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| Purchased a couple boxes of 9mm DPX. I am glad I have a understanding wife. Those Barnes X bullets are expensive. I wish Carbon made these rounds with nickled cases. I think nickled cases hold up better without tarnishing. Evan from your article "Selecting the Duty Weapon-Is Calliber the Key" that you wrote in 1997, your top choice in 9mm was the Corbon 115 JHP with a 91 percent one shot stops. Do you expect a higher one shot stop percentage with the DPX? |
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Evan
Administrator
26750 Posts |
Posted - July 22 2006 : 10:55:48 AM
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| just no way to know-I like DPX's barrier penetration |
"The greatest thing a Father can do for his children is to love their Mother."
Harold B. Lee
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GLV
Moderator
USA
7916 Posts |
Posted - July 22 2006 : 11:04:53 AM
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Center Shot, do a search on the DPX round in the 'Test Bed' forum
If you read thru each thread, you will find lots of comments about how well it penetrates metal.
Evan's group tested it against 16ga steel, two pieces framed and separated by 4" of airspace. All DPX handled the barrier. All other ammo failed on the second piece of steel If I remember right.
Also did some testing using a Dakota door.
I cannot predict how it will act on the street. Do not know how the Fuller Index--see chapter 28 in Book II--would rate the DPX.
I do carry the DPX in some guns, and will increase that number when I order DPX again. |
'the world is round everywhere'
'The meek will inherit the earth, but only after the last soldier has left it to them in his will' |
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Chuck
Advanced Member
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - July 23 2006 : 1:06:55 PM
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Dennis, kind of depends on the gun. I've got over 1000 rounds of the 127gr stuff through my 'new' G17 without any wear signs, but that gun/frame was made to correct issues that have cropped up with the same frame being used for .40/.357Sig.
I'd guess that a steel frame 1911 9mm, one of the Sig 9mms, the S&W 5906,, HK USPs, etc would hold up to as much as you can stand.
I'm not a Hi Power guy, but I hear that they don't like alot of the hotter stuff. |
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twotap
New Member
USA
58 Posts |
Posted - July 24 2006 : 8:53:22 PM
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| That would be the first time I have ever heard of any 9mm load being recommended as a deer cartridge. With all the excellent handgun hunting cartridges now available I would think using the 9mm would be mostly in the stunt catagory and to me downright unsporting. I sure hope not too many readers of Mr Taylors articles take that one as sound advice. |
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Chuck
Advanced Member
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - July 29 2006 : 2:53:59 PM
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1st, I agree, 9mm is really not for deer hunting, but I've recovered several bullets after putting deer down due to them jumping out in front of cars. At bow hunting range I would use the 127gr and have no worries, with a longer barreled 9mm, but that's an academic thought as 9mm wouldn't be legal for deer hunting in KS.
I've been told, I think by Mas Ayoob, that Hi Powers don't hold up to long term use with hotter 9mm ammo, as I recall (which is hits and miss) they wear them out alot in Venezuela shooting the local very hot 9mm ball. |
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John L. Carp
Starting Member
2 Posts |
Posted - July 29 2006 : 10:30:31 PM
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Good evening;
I have a couple of questions regarding 9mm ammunition.
I am an LEO and am blessed with being able to obtain all of the LEO only 9mm loadings.
I have read a few things as of late about the "newish" Winchester ranger "T" Series 127 gr.JHP +P+ ammunition.
I have been told this ammunition should be used only in submachine guns, because it is way hot.
I have a beloved Smith & Wesson 5926 that I carry off duty.
A
Does anyone have any experiance with this ammunition?
And, has anyone seen an abnormal wear in a handgun from this load or +P+'s in general?
Also, does anyone issue/use the Speer Gold Dot 115gr +P+?
I have found that this ammunition groups like match grade ammunition in a Ruger P89, that I own.
Does anyone have any experiance with this ammunition.
Thank you!
Respectfully
John
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John L. Carp |
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Topic |
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Top Six Loads for 9mm?
