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MSU721
Moderator

USA
1554 Posts

Posted - November 03 2005 :  07:39:06 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
10% Ballistic Gelatin Tests for:
Corbon .380 80 gr DPX

Testing Platform:
Keltec 3AT

Barrier:
Bare Gelatin


TEST RESULTS:

Round # 1:
Penetration: 8.375”
Recovered Weight: 80.2 gr.
Expansion*: .714 cal.
Velocity: 914.7 fps

* Expansion measured at widest point.



10% Ballistic Gelatin Tests for:
Corbon .380 80 gr DPX

Testing Platform:
Keltec 3AT

Barrier:
Four Layers of Denim


TEST RESULTS:

Round # 1:
Penetration: 6.75”
Recovered Weight: 80.8 gr.
Expansion*: .732 cal.
Velocity: 958.6 fps

* Expansion measured at widest point.



10% Ballistic Gelatin Tests for:
Corbon .380 80 gr DPX

Testing Platform:
North American Arms .380

Barrier:
Four Layers of Denim


TEST RESULTS:

Round # 1:
Penetration: 7.375”
Recovered Weight: 80.7 gr.
Expansion*: .716 cal.
Velocity: 988.8 fps

* Expansion measured at widest point.



10% Ballistic Gelatin Tests for:
Corbon .380 80 gr DPX

Testing Platform:
Walther PPK

Barrier:
Four Layers of Denim


TEST RESULTS:

Round # 1:
Penetration: 7.50”
Recovered Weight: 81.0 gr.
Expansion*: .725 cal.
Velocity: 1085 fps

* Expansion measured at widest point.


Calibration BB Data:
596.9 fps.
3.625 pen.

JWR

Edited by - MSU721 on November 03 2005 07:57:20 AM

Evan
Administrator

34023 Posts

Posted - November 03 2005 :  08:09:10 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
i occassionally carry a .380 as a 3rd gun-this looks promising-some folks will get hysterical that it doesn't penetrate 12" but it works fine for what it is-a .380.

"The greatest thing a Father can do for his children is to love their Mother."

Harold B. Lee

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MSU721
Moderator

USA
1554 Posts

Posted - November 03 2005 :  08:38:41 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I could not agree more. The penetration depth is not bad, and the expansion looks really good, like DPX always does.

If I had a .380 this is the load I would want to load it with.


JWR
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gewing
Average Member

USA
317 Posts

Posted - November 03 2005 :  10:40:33 PM  Show Profile  Send gewing an AOL message  Reply with Quote
while I would have liked to see 9"+ of penetration, .70" + expansion is a good thing too!

I remember thinking when the first stats came out that 1100fps might have been doable with the bullet weight, I guess Not.

Still most likely the next round for my wife's P3AT

God Bless America
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Evan
Administrator

34023 Posts

Posted - November 04 2005 :  12:01:48 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
they did the best they could and I cerainly will carry it when I carry a .380 as a 3rd gun

"The greatest thing a Father can do for his children is to love their Mother."

Harold B. Lee

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gewing
Average Member

USA
317 Posts

Posted - November 04 2005 :  4:11:32 PM  Show Profile  Send gewing an AOL message  Reply with Quote
Yes indeed, I like the idea of .70+ holes!

Now I need to find it, and money for it. :(



God Bless America
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Evan
Administrator

34023 Posts

Posted - November 04 2005 :  4:23:33 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
it will be a bit before it will be on the shelves

"The greatest thing a Father can do for his children is to love their Mother."

Harold B. Lee

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Wistfulman
Average Member

USA
417 Posts

Posted - November 06 2005 :  8:25:40 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I imagine that with a 3.5" barrel as found on the SIG P232, Bersa Thunder or CZ83 you'll get a bit more penetration and a bit less expansion. That appears to be the way DPX works.
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Evan
Administrator

34023 Posts

Posted - November 06 2005 :  8:32:43 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
differences between the 3AT&PPK were minimual

"The greatest thing a Father can do for his children is to love their Mother."

Harold B. Lee

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mecheng
Average Member

USA
437 Posts

Posted - November 13 2005 :  10:21:51 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
A .380 is still a .380 it seems no matter how much technology improves. Besides if you are reaching for a third gun Evan I would think that things have gotten about as bad as they could get and you need a rapid end to the nightmare. If I wanted small backup/hideout gun I still think a Kahr MK9, MK40 or the standby scandium .38 would serve better as a last ditch gun. Besides most .380s I have seen have not been 100% reliable with HPs (your mileage may vary).
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SavannahSteve
Senior Member

USA
660 Posts

Posted - November 15 2005 :  6:49:06 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Many people seem to discount the .380 because of the lighter bullet weights, but most .38 spl +P gives about the same energy from 2-in barrels because of the much lower .38 spl velocities. As a general rule, I don't think you give up stopping power in going from the .38 J-frame to PPK size .380 pistols, and Evan's stopping power numbers suggest the .380 has equivalent stopping power.

I traded an excellent stainless J-frame even for my Bersa .380 and I have never regretted it because I think that I ended up with a much better SD pistol. It carries three more rounds and is much easier to shoot rapidly and accurately because of its better ergonomics, trigger and sights. Any particular clip-fed pistol might have reliability problems with HP ammo, but I currently have three pistols that have never failed to feed or fire any of the various HP rounds I have fed them, and my Bersa is one.
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mecheng
Average Member

USA
437 Posts

Posted - November 15 2005 :  9:57:12 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Steve,
The j-frame offers the following adavantages over a .380.
1.) Reliability, reliability, reliability (I know some revolvers have problems too but less than autos)
2.) Better penetration (see tests for .38 Special DPX, Gold Dot, etc. and compare to .380)
3.) Ability to fire at contact distance without affecting reliability (more common than you think especially if a bug is used)
4.) Ability to fire from the pocket, or holster.
5.) More tolerant of sitting in a pocket or ankle holster (see #1, lint and dirt can be tough on some autos)
6.) Many small j-frame guns can also fire .357 mag (You wont feel a thing if you shoot it for real)

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gewing
Average Member

USA
317 Posts

Posted - November 15 2005 :  11:31:31 PM  Show Profile  Send gewing an AOL message  Reply with Quote
back to the 70 gr. dpx bullet...


I wonder what it would do out of a 9mm?

God Bless America
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mecheng
Average Member

USA
437 Posts

Posted - November 16 2005 :  01:33:07 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
70gr is far too light in my opinion for 9mm, besides there is already a 115gr that seems to work quite well so I don't see the point. Normally with DPX the higher the velocity the more the petals fold against the shank and reduce diamter and effective wound channel size. A DPX bullet that is overdriven beyond its design envelope will end up penetrating more and producing a smaller wound than one at a more reasonable velocity.
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Wistfulman
Average Member

USA
417 Posts

Posted - November 16 2005 :  6:05:48 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Bullet weight is relative. Not many people think a 55gr round coming out of an AR-15 is anything to laugh at. The DPX being 100% copper doesn't need the weight to penetrate, that's really the function of weight in a round. It opens every time too.
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SavannahSteve
Senior Member

USA
660 Posts

Posted - November 17 2005 :  01:02:53 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Mecheng,

1. Even if there is a real reliability difference between revolvers and pistols (and I do believe there is), it is so small that other factors dominate and it really does not matter to me.

2. Penetration is a function of many factors that really does not tell you much by itself and can even be misleading. For example, FMJ ammo is always going to have greater penetration than the JHP ammo for a given bullet caliber, weight and velocity while the JHP is a far better stopper. I prefer to look at directly at the factors that affect penetration—especially bullet mass, velocity, and expanded cross sectional area—and how these more fundamental parameters correlate with performance on the street.

3. I think that better reliability at contact distances is an unproven premise. For example, can a J-frame be fired double action while the BG has a death grip on the cylinder?

4. Firing from a pocket or holster is an option that I will not consider because of reduced control over the weapon. And while it is often touted as an advantage offered by the revolver, I personally have not ever heard of actual shootings involving a pocketed gun other than accidental discharges.

5. Lint can be a real problem with any firearm (including revolvers) carried under clothing, and it is amazing how fast it can accumulate. I clean my pocket-holster-carried Kel-Tec P32 very frequently just to be sure that I am keeping lint to a minimum.

6. I am an older guy with worsening arthritis that began carrying a .380 pistol in place of a steel J-frame loaded with .38 spl +P to avoid its heavier recoil on the range. I will not carry a gun and ammo combination on the street that I am unwilling to practice with on the range even if it is a better stopper.

Steve

p.s. I noticed that I had mistyped your name, and while correcting it, was wondering if it was a contraction of "mechanical engineer". I am a chemical engineer by training, but have spent most of my career in the environmental field.

Edited by - SavannahSteve on November 17 2005 01:10:06 AM
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GLV
Moderator

USA
8866 Posts

Posted - November 17 2005 :  08:49:56 AM  Show Profile  Send GLV an ICQ Message  Send GLV a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
mecheng, SS, we all have reason/s for what we carry.

If you prefer the .380 to .38 Special, it is a matter of your personal choice.

Do not believe we need further debate on which is best. Both of you have made your points. Thanks

'the world is round everywhere'

'The meek will inherit the earth, but only after the last soldier has left it to them in his will'
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mecheng
Average Member

USA
437 Posts

Posted - November 17 2005 :  1:16:05 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Understood GLV, thanks for letting us get on this far. Steve you are correct I am a mechanical engineer and my name happens to be Steve too. Your points are well taken and I can certainly understand that with limited hand strength the j-frame could be nearly impossible to shoot well. The main thing as you said is to train with what you have.
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SavannahSteve
Senior Member

USA
660 Posts

Posted - November 17 2005 :  2:46:20 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks mecheng, and getting back to the original thread, I’m really looking forward to trying the .380 DPX because I think it will be a major step forward for the 0.380, whose stopping power does have plenty of room for improvement.
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esq_stu
Senior Member

USA
905 Posts

Posted - November 17 2005 :  3:59:31 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by SavannahSteve
p.s. . . I am a chemical engineer by training, but have spent most of my career in the environmental field.
Ditto, Steve - I see your profile won't allow e-mail contacts, or I'd contact you directly.

Kol Tuv (All the best!)

-- esq_stu

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SavannahSteve
Senior Member

USA
660 Posts

Posted - November 17 2005 :  5:52:43 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
esq_stu, I've currently got the e-mail function turned off because I have changed e-mail accounts and the e-mail address in my profile, which I have been unable to get changed, is no longer valid. Try "StevenEstesJr" at "yahoo.com"

Steve

Edited by - SavannahSteve on November 18 2005 6:20:02 PM
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Wistfulman
Average Member

USA
417 Posts

Posted - November 23 2005 :  11:36:18 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Looks like it's available on Corbon's website now.
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DT Willy
Starting Member

16 Posts

Posted - November 23 2005 :  4:55:52 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Wistfulman, I certainly didn't find the DPX .380 on Corbon's website. Might you be confusing it with the .380 Powerball?
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Wistfulman
Average Member

USA
417 Posts

Posted - November 25 2005 :  08:21:39 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I could have sworn I saw it there, but perhaps it was the Pow'Rball.
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Evan
Administrator

34023 Posts

Posted - November 25 2005 :  08:48:17 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I don't think the DPX is ready yet-the ammo we got for testing was clearly marked "Preproduction Samples".

"The greatest thing a Father can do for his children is to love their Mother."

Harold B. Lee

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Pitbull
Moderator

2011 Posts

Posted - November 25 2005 :  10:18:49 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Your only going to get so much performance out of a .380 as it's going to have limitations just like any handgun. I liken it to tweaking a 6 cylinder engine. Only so much horsepower there, but it sure beats walking and makes a much appreciated second if the V8 is out of service.

Edited by - Pitbull on November 25 2005 10:22:52 PM
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