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 Golden Saber or HTP

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T O P I C    R E V I E W
bandaidman Posted - November 30 2017 : 04:08:03 AM
I am seeing less Golden Saber ammo on the shelves and more of Remington's HTP (high terminal preformance) ammo and Ultimate defense with UMC being the practice ammo. Is this just a name change or are they making Golden Saber LEO only? Any idea?
16   L A T E S T    R E P L I E S    (Newest First)
zeke Posted - December 11 2017 : 11:03:02 PM
Remington gs bullets used to be cheap for hand loading. The 38 special version was specifically designed for 38 special, always very accurate and seemed to expand/penetrate well from 4 incher. The 44 180 sjhp was a favorite for 44 special/mid level 44 mag loads, and extremely accurate.

Then they got scary expensive, then hard to find. Am seeing the sjhp's again, but still expensive.
WR Moore Posted - December 11 2017 : 5:52:15 PM
I was poking around on the Remington website today looking at ammo. The Express/HTP of old was decent in 9mm. I'd get low .50 expansion with standard velocity, mid .50 with the +P and penetration was OK (~12"?) , not excessive. I can't see them managing to screw up cup & core bullets, but I guess with the wrong lead wire......

I've been working with the various you should excuse the expression expanding bullets in .38 Spl. Speer GD (not the short barrel) and Sierra 125 gr didn't expand even at +P levels (apparently designed for the Magnum). On the other hand, the Remington 125 gr SJHP did an impressive .62 caliber and 11 5/8 inch penetration. Velocity 1000 f/s, not at +P level per the load manual and about 3 inches low at 25 yards. I seem to have about 150 on hand and 49 loaded. Hope I can find some more sometime.

Jim, did you get credit for the low round? I did something similar once on a simulated car. You could see where other rounds had dented the sheet metal, a couple penetrated and lodged in the 2X4 support. Mine went through the sheet metal AND the width of the 2x4 and they wouldn't give it to me.
Jim Higginbotham Posted - December 02 2017 : 10:06:19 AM
I picked 230 GS to hand-load for the last IDPA Nationals I shot in. Got it going to about 930 fps or so and on the last target in the match it was hiding mostly hidden behind the roof-line of a 1991 Mercury Marquis.

I punched that bullet about 2" low but it went through the rear window glass and the upright and punched a hole in the target.

I've killed deer with that load it expands really well!

Jim H.
Pop Pop Posted - December 01 2017 : 08:31:24 AM
In the past I have really liked Golden Saber. It feeds well in any caliber I have used it. I have several boxes of 20, that are a few years old, in both 9, 40, and 45 cal. I do like bonded +P in 9MM. I have not ventured into the 147 grain world yet.

Don't like the new stuff. Looks like same old ammo with a flashy box and larger price tag, plus I have not tested it in any way.
Ace Posted - November 30 2017 : 9:06:43 PM
I've had GS's in my 1911 for a long time, actually way past time to replace them. I did allow a CCH student to shoot one magazine of them when she was trying several different guns. She was scary impressive with all the guns she tried, and really liked the 1911 and the Ruger Speed Six.
The 1911 will likely be refreshed with Federal HST, I think I'm out of the Remington stuff; sorry to hear it's going downhill with the rest of their products. Ace
Arvinator Posted - November 30 2017 : 7:38:48 PM
I have a several boxes of GS 124+P bonded. I don't carry it anymore just due to personal preference but I have it on hand.

Today I carry +P 124 Gold Dots. Next month ammo change time. They go in the practice pile and i'll likely buy 124+p HST.

I still keep my older Glock 17 stuffed full of Federal +P+ 115 jhp's. Should I feel outdated? Nah, I'm good...
Badge Posted - November 30 2017 : 5:38:15 PM
Golden Sabre of old was an excellent round and my former agency used it for more than 20 years. I was told that they recently switched to Winchester Ranger 147 grain due to financial reasons. We used the non bonded projectile during my time using it and it worked well. I cannot comment on the new version.
arty Posted - November 30 2017 : 4:25:19 PM
The Golden Saber 38 special +p and 357 magnum loads are among the most accurate I have seen. I thought that they worked well in the real world. Am I wrong about both of these loads? I just got some...
Chris Christian Posted - November 30 2017 : 4:24:56 PM
quote:
Originally posted by pochis

I thought the same as ten driver but I have seen some good exp from golden sabres, and a ton of negativity on the ultimat defense.... just saying.



The 'old' Golden Sabre worked very well. I just wonder what Remington is currently producing under that title. I would hope it would be GS... but I have to wonder about anything coming out of Remington at this time.
pochis Posted - November 30 2017 : 4:01:46 PM
I thought the same as ten driver but I have seen some good exp from golden sabres, and a ton of negativity on the ultimat defense.... just saying.
Jim Higginbotham Posted - November 30 2017 : 2:32:21 PM
I don't buy many guns since I retired but every week I go out with a friend and fellow retired deputy to gun shops - I don't have to even guess about Remington's quality control - the lack of it is evident in the new guns I examine.

They nearly ruined Marlin's name when they took over but I hear they are getting better in that line at least.

Most of the new 700s I pick up sound like someone dumped a pound of sand into the action.

Recently you could get their Glock knock off, with rebate for under $200 but I was not tempted.

It is a shame to see a fine old company go downhill I hope someone changes their direction.

Jim H.
Chris Christian Posted - November 30 2017 : 12:36:13 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Malcolm

In a new wrapper/packaging, Remington can charge more for the same product. I have noticed four business articles in the last three weeks, citing Rem8ngton’s “too rapid acquisition growth”, as being “concerning to institutional investors”. My personal opinion, is that the Remington brand as currently led, certainly appears to be on the ropes financially as well as product quality. It would b3 sad, (but typical), to see a once great firearms brand disappear due to the non-firearms related MBA and other academic certifications “leadership”.



A few years back an editor well-experienced in the business world told me that the CEO of Remington... when he was with other non-firearms companies... had a history of "slash/burn/acquire/live on product rep/wrack up quick profits/cut operating costs.

That does seem to be what has happened. As a writer, try getting a hold of a Remington PR person.... or even get unsolicited PR releases. That office has been slashed to nothing. You leave multiple messages and get no response. That doesn't bode well for publicity regarding their products.

One has to wonder if QC has suffered as well.... or product development. Of course, the later wouldn't matter much because the PR office in virtually nonexistent and they are doing very little advertising. What they seem to be doing is trotting out 'old stuff' in new packaging and hoping their distributors can sell it for them.

The current market is truly a 'buyers market' (just look at all the sales and rebates as many companies... who thought Shrillary would win... now try to shed excess inventory).

Remington does seem to be at the bottom of the barrel, and doesn't realize it.





Malcolm Posted - November 30 2017 : 08:38:28 AM
In a new wrapper/packaging, Remington can charge more for the same product. I have noticed four business articles in the last three weeks, citing Rem8ngton’s “too rapid acquisition growth”, as being “concerning to institutional investors”. My personal opinion, is that the Remington brand as currently led, certainly appears to be on the ropes financially as well as product quality. It would b3 sad, (but typical), to see a once great firearms brand disappear due to the non-firearms related MBA and other academic certifications “leadership”.
gauchobill Posted - November 30 2017 : 08:19:37 AM
Remington HTP performed poorly in Lucky Gunner Ammo Tests. Penetration was high, expansion almost nil. Similar in that respect to FMJ ammo.
Evan Posted - November 30 2017 : 06:26:26 AM
Remember Black Talon? Some cops started referring to it as the black widow maker and it was quickly a disaster-didn't work that well anyway.
Ten Driver Posted - November 30 2017 : 04:26:07 AM
Hello,

Ultimate Defense "full size" is just Golden Saber in a new wrapper. The Ultimate Defense "compact" is supposedly GS which has been tweaked a bit for short barrels.

HTP is just the new label for the old "Express" loads in the green and yellow boxes. Traditional cup and core JHPs.

There was an attempt to make "Black Belt" the LE load, but that looks stillborn now.

Mike


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