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T O P I C    R E V I E W
Evan Posted - November 03 2017 : 2:10:51 PM

Peter Pi has indicated that by the end of this month Cabella's will have DPX in stock.
23   L A T E S T    R E P L I E S    (Newest First)
Pop Pop Posted - November 08 2017 : 08:00:53 AM
(QUOTE)
the settlement on the civil suit in his case was $450,000, his legal fees were $387,000

Exactly gw. This is the reason I asked the question on DPX ammo(was it considered Boutique ammo). Look at what Zimmerman's trial cost was, and a lot of good men did service pro bono plus a lot of Americans donated 1,000's.

I know many believe Zim went looking for trouble, in his case, but that could happen to anyone if the situation became blown out of proportion by the media and became a politically charged case.

I don't know any Police Department's that utilize DPX. I know many who know about DPX, and Barnes, but the cost to departments is challenging.

IMO, it is a question to consider, but I sure hope, and pray I never have a need to find out.
Ten Driver Posted - November 07 2017 : 10:57:28 PM
Remington has been struggling to keep up in the police and self defense ammunition market. The short-lived Black Belt is a great example of how things have been going for them, so I'm not surprised they have latched onto the Barnes bullets.

I've met Pi and have worked with several of his folks over the years. They strike me as good people, worthy of my business. I'm confident they'll get the supply issues worked out and will be firing on all cylinders again soon.

With respect to Mr. Seiden's comments, I believe the advice was more directed at some of the small outfits that use exaggerated and flamboyant marketing, particularly those that use a lot of violent or lethal terminology in the product names and packaging. We've seen them all in the gunzines, in all their colorful glory.

I don't believe CorBon falls into that group. Sure, they make ammunition that is designed to be powerful and effective in self defense roles, but they don't market it like those other products. They're an established and well-respected name in the business.

If counsel tried to intimate that I was ghoulish for choosing a CB load, I could supply him with a ten foot tall stack of depositions from leading LE and self defense trainers who have been endorsing the product as a responsible and effective choice in print for the last three decades.

I think Seiden's advice is good, but it doesn't apply to this manufacturer.

Badge, you're correct about the grips--Rogers finger grooves. They were technically a violation of the department's prohibition against using "plastic" grips, but the attack on Alvarez at trial was defeated through expert testimony from Rogers himself, according to Mas.

Also, the other modification was removing two coils from the trigger return spring. Not a great idea, really. Kind of a weak attempt at lightening the pull weight, with the problem that it slows the return of the trigger. I'm sure it cost him some extra grief at trial.

Mike
Malcolm Posted - November 05 2017 : 2:50:50 PM
Hmmmm, so Remington appears to be the main reason CorBon has had a producti9n issue. Another good reason to avoid their produc5s in the future. They obviously won’t miss MY business.
Evan Posted - November 05 2017 : 2:10:04 PM
I was sued for 17.5 million dollars and ammo never came up. Remember you have to survive first then worry about being sued. I carry Cor Bon and I'll always CB.
LittleBill Posted - November 05 2017 : 09:09:27 AM
From Farnam’s ‘Quips’ Nov 4: why the supply of DPX suddenly dried up, and why we can expect the drought to end sometime soon. (Along with one more reason to hate Remington):

“Update from CorBon:

Peter Pi, CEO of CorBon, and my friend, knows only too well about the frustration of his many loyal customers in trying to find CorBon DPX ammunition.

Pete is an ammunition company CEO who is, himself, a genuine Operator!
Here is what he told me today:

“It’s great your students are inquiring. It gives me a chance to set the record straight and quench the rumor mill.

I started CorBon Ammunition back in Detroit, MI in 1982 and years later moved the business to our new facility in Sturgis, SD , where it is now.

The Pi family has owned CorBon since it’s inception, and still owns 100% of the company, thirty-vive years later. Unfortunately, competitors and detractors sometimes start destructive rumors. Goes with the territory!

The problem with our famous DPX line of ammunition is a classic example of the big company trying to crush a smaller one.

Remington bought Barnes Bullets. Barnes was our supplier of DPX bullets, made to our specifications. In fact, I worked with them on the design and testing of the product. Without warning, they cancelled our contract, saying, ‘We will no longer sell you bullets.’

Remington/Barnes intended to manufacture a contending DPX line of ammunition and obviously preferred not to have us competing with them.

This left us with a couple of choices.

Either find another vendor, or make DPX bullets in-house.

After months of working with several alternative vendors, we reluctantly realized that, if we were going to market superior DPX ammunition, worthy of our name and that out-performed all others, we would have to make it ourselves!

I had no idea when we started the project that it would take this long, and use up all the resources the company had, and then some! But, I refused to compromise and refused to put out a product to my loyal customers, unless it was the best on the market.

It’s been a long, rocky, and expensive road, but we are now very close to being able to, once again, produce DPX ammunition that I’m proud of, and a product that my customers can stake their lives on!

We currently have orders for several million rounds of DPX. We will begin filling orders sometime in December, and will fill them from the oldest to the newest. We have lots of customers who have been patiently waiting, and they will be rewarded for their loyalty.

It will take us a while to get caught up, but we will get there.

We do plan on bringing back the DPX 30 Carbine round eventually, but right now we have to concentrate on pistol calibers, as you can imagine.”

So, that is the latest.

I’ve always been happy to recommend CorBon ammunition for serious purposes. Because of Pete’s personal devotion to excellence, I’ve no doubt CorBon ammunition will continue to be the first choice of Operators worldwide!

/John“
bandaidman Posted - November 04 2017 : 9:40:08 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Malcolm

Yes indeed, CorBon Unicorn all copper, Condor friendly renewable sustainable ammunition designed to over penetrate, “That’s the DPX I want to use!”
In all seriousness glad to hear Cabelas will have some in shortly, have a smaller Cabelas location here in northern Utah that saves me a trip down to the hinterlands where Bandaid is located. Good news all around. Now, if I can get some unicornrainbowpushcoalitionmaxinewatersendorsedberniesandersantirepublican DPX, there’s not a prosecutor outside of Texas, that could possibly touch me.
Thanks for the good word on DPX via Cabelas, Evan!


To Malcolm
So that's the reason you don't come shoot with me. I'll let you know when I go to Cabelas here in a week or so so maybe you will visit if they don't have what you want in that dinky store up north. Course you have " Smiths" where they have everything or at least that is what the sign says.
Deputy25 Posted - November 04 2017 : 8:36:40 PM
I carry my service pistol (G31) and my approved back-up (G33). Both are completely stock as-issued. I carry the ammo I'm issued, Speer GD 125 JHP in 357Sig. I worry mostly about placing them where they'll do me the most good. I did notice that when I experienced incoming rounds, my trigger pull and reset must have improved immensely, because I didn't notice them. I have used CorBon and Garrett ammo hunting, and both were excellent. When I'm a retired private citizen, I may spring for DPX, until then I'll stick with what the state issues me.
Ace Posted - November 04 2017 : 7:45:15 PM
On the rare occasion I'm asked, I always suggest using a major-brand ammo, factory loads, no home-brewed handloads (I'd consider CorBon major-brand enough). Frequently hear things like 'I've been loading my own for however-many centuries, and have never had a squib or misfire.' Try to explain the sample issue, the 'Super-Blastem-Better'n'Boomier-Than-Factory' side, usually get ignored.

I like my guns pretty much always 'out of the box', no messing with internals or trigger pulls, don't care about reset because it won't matter in a social situation. Pretty much always, if an action is rough or a trigger is a bit heavy, dry fire and live fire smooths it out enough. Changing grips, painting sights, things that make the gun easier to control--external changes--don't worry me. IF something simply must be done to the 'guts', I'll have it done by a certified gunsmith or a buddy who is a certified repair guy. Don't change my own springs or tinker with trigger weight, timing, and such. Probably not so much worried over legal issues, they just don't need it. Ace
LittleBill Posted - November 04 2017 : 6:34:25 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Malcolm

Yes indeed, CorBon Unicorn all copper, Condor friendly renewable sustainable ammunition designed to over penetrate, “That’s the DPX I want to use!”
In all seriousness glad to hear Cabelas will have some in shortly, have a smaller Cabelas location here in northern Utah that saves me a trip down to the hinterlands where Bandaid is located. Good news all around. Now, if I can get some unicornrainbowpushcoalitionmaxinewatersendorsedberniesandersantirepublican DPX, there’s not a prosecutor outside of Texas, that could possibly touch me.
Thanks for the good word on DPX via Cabelas, Evan!


I hear that Maxine-endorsed stuff radically over-expands, blows completely apart even before hitting the barrier....

Malcolm Posted - November 04 2017 : 5:52:05 PM
Yes indeed, CorBon Unicorn all copper, Condor friendly renewable sustainable ammunition designed to over penetrate, “That’s the DPX I want to use!”
In all seriousness glad to hear Cabelas will have some in shortly, have a smaller Cabelas location here in northern Utah that saves me a trip down to the hinterlands where Bandaid is located. Good news all around. Now, if I can get some unicornrainbowpushcoalitionmaxinewatersendorsedberniesandersantirepublican DPX, there’s not a prosecutor outside of Texas, that could possibly touch me.
Thanks for the good word on DPX via Cabelas, Evan!
LittleBill Posted - November 04 2017 : 5:34:14 PM
Yep. And when it’s you and your paid attorney against a Gov’t agency or other institution with fulltime attorneys on staff, all they have to do is drag it out long enough, and anyone will eventually run out of money. Agencies like the EPA do it all the time.

And yeah, it’s very much about who you shoot. Along with who’s in power in the jurisdiction you shoot them in.

Zimmerman was lucky. When local authorities cleared him, despite massive pressure to do otherwise, the Obama/Holder “Justice” Dept moved in, and did their best worst to try and nail him on Federal charges. I’m pretty sure none of that would have happened if Trayvon Martin had been White....

gw Posted - November 04 2017 : 4:50:23 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Chris Christian

quote:
Originally posted by LittleBill

quote:
Originally posted by Chris Christian

One of the things I have learned from my buddy Mas Ayoob is that ammunition can easily become an issue in a SD shooting. My advice has been to find the load used by your local LE dept, or a respected LE agency, and load that.

If the prosecutor wants to make an issue of your 'super killer loads', or 'dum dums' or whatever the current liberal buzzword is, your response is simple.

"Gee, it's just what the police use and I thought they would know best".

That's a difficult statement for even the slimiest prosecutor to rebut
and should play well with the jury.




I think I may have hit on a solution....

Suppose Corbon were to come out with another type of ‘branding’ for their existing lines of ammo— similar to their ‘self-defense’ and ‘dpx hunter’ lines— maybe call it their ‘Safe and sane, LGBTQ and minority-friendly, I really, really hope I never have to shoot anybody with this ammo’ line— maybe engrave “I’m so, so sorry to have to do this” on each shell casing— maybe with pics of Barack, Michele, Hillary, Caitlin Jenner, Bowe Bergdal, Chelsea Manning, and Rosie O’Donnel on each box— a box of ammo you could hold up in court and no one could doubt that your heart was in the right place...





Great idea! And maybe the logo on the box could be a little puppy wearing a Rainbow ribbon.



people wouldn't buy it, but maybe they should

increasingly in this country it's not why you shoot, but who you shoot

Alverez was the 4th cop involved in shooting a black suspect prosecuted by the Florida AG (Janet Reno)

the settlement on the civil suit in his case was $450,000, his legal fees were $387,000

anything can be defended in court, if the judge allows it, and you don't run out of money

if you think your lawyer is your budy and will love you long time, wait until you tell him you're out of cash....
LittleBill Posted - November 04 2017 : 1:12:03 PM
Perfect!
Chris Christian Posted - November 04 2017 : 1:09:36 PM
quote:
Originally posted by LittleBill

quote:
Originally posted by Chris Christian

One of the things I have learned from my buddy Mas Ayoob is that ammunition can easily become an issue in a SD shooting. My advice has been to find the load used by your local LE dept, or a respected LE agency, and load that.

If the prosecutor wants to make an issue of your 'super killer loads', or 'dum dums' or whatever the current liberal buzzword is, your response is simple.

"Gee, it's just what the police use and I thought they would know best".

That's a difficult statement for even the slimiest prosecutor to rebut
and should play well with the jury.




I think I may have hit on a solution....

Suppose Corbon were to come out with another type of ‘branding’ for their existing lines of ammo— similar to their ‘self-defense’ and ‘dpx hunter’ lines— maybe call it their ‘Safe and sane, LGBTQ and minority-friendly, I really, really hope I never have to shoot anybody with this ammo’ line— maybe engrave “I’m so, so sorry to have to do this” on each shell casing— maybe with pics of Barack, Michele, Hillary, Caitlin Jenner, Bowe Bergdal, Chelsea Manning, and Rosie O’Donnel on each box— a box of ammo you could hold up in court and no one could doubt that your heart was in the right place...





Great idea! And maybe the logo on the box could be a little puppy wearing a Rainbow ribbon.
LittleBill Posted - November 04 2017 : 12:59:12 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Chris Christian

One of the things I have learned from my buddy Mas Ayoob is that ammunition can easily become an issue in a SD shooting. My advice has been to find the load used by your local LE dept, or a respected LE agency, and load that.

If the prosecutor wants to make an issue of your 'super killer loads', or 'dum dums' or whatever the current liberal buzzword is, your response is simple.

"Gee, it's just what the police use and I thought they would know best".

That's a difficult statement for even the slimiest prosecutor to rebut
and should play well with the jury.




I think I may have hit on a solution....

Suppose Corbon were to come out with another type of ‘branding’ for their existing lines of ammo— similar to their ‘self-defense’ and ‘dpx hunter’ lines— maybe call it their ‘Safe and sane, LGBTQ and minority-friendly, I really, really hope I never have to shoot anybody with this ammo’ line— maybe engrave “I’m so, so sorry to have to do this” on each shell casing— maybe with pics of Barack, Michele, Hillary, Caitlin Jenner, Bowe Bergdal, Chelsea Manning, and Rosie O’Donnel on each box— a box of ammo you could hold up in court and no one could doubt that your heart was in the right place...

LittleBill Posted - November 04 2017 : 11:22:35 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Chris Christian

One of the things I have learned from my buddy Mas Ayoob is that ammunition can easily become an issue in a SD shooting. My advice has been to find the load used by your local LE dept, or a respected LE agency, and load that.

If the prosecutor wants to make an issue of your 'super killer loads', or 'dum dums' or whatever the current liberal buzzword is, your response is simple.

"Gee, it's just what the police use and I thought they would know best".

That's a difficult statement for even the slimiest prosecutor to rebut
and should play well with the jury.




That line of thought certainly makes sense, no doubt it’s the safest option from a legal standpoint. While my State (Virginia) is strong on gun rights, I live in a locality (Fairfax County) that’s very liberal, and it would be no surprise to find that local DAs and prosecutors are biased against armed citizens.

OTOH, by carrying what your local PD carries, you’re limiting yourself to ammo that may have been chosen primarily for it’s low cost, rather than its performance. Maybe the difference isn’t worth worrying about...

My own inclination is to focus on making sure that any shooting I’m involved in has met all the criteria for a justified use of deadly force. Having to not alter my pistols from factory stock, and only carry one type of ammo, seems unnecessarily limiting of my options.

As important to me as the choice of ammo, is the fact that I do prefer my pistols ‘altered’ to give a better trigger pull and shorter reset. I hesitate to give that up on the off chance that some prosecutor or civil lawyer may try and use it against me.

But maybe I’ll change my tune if I’m ever facing a progressive Democrat prosecutor with fire in her eyes, and a jury composed of people of the same ‘type’ as the perp I was forced to shoot....

Like a wise man has been known to say: we each get to choose our own salvation. And it may not be until ‘judgement day’ arrives that we find out whether or not our choice was the right one....

gw Posted - November 04 2017 : 11:06:29 AM
Mas Ayoob was en expert witness in the Alverez trial I believe

one thing sighted as critical, does the ammo manufacturer maintain samples of ammo lots sold

this allows testing of ammo by investigators, a critical aspect of George Zimmerman's mess

check with Corbon whether they collect and maintain samples for evidence testing
Chris Christian Posted - November 04 2017 : 10:49:36 AM
One of the things I have learned from my buddy Mas Ayoob is that ammunition can easily become an issue in a SD shooting. My advice has been to find the load used by your local LE dept, or a respected LE agency, and load that.

If the prosecutor wants to make an issue of your 'super killer loads', or 'dum dums' or whatever the current liberal buzzword is, your response is simple.

"Gee, it's just what the police use and I thought they would know best".

That's a difficult statement for even the slimiest prosecutor to rebut
and should play well with the jury.

LittleBill Posted - November 04 2017 : 10:01:45 AM
Corbon’s been around a long time, I’m not sure how any reasonable person could characterize it as “boutique” ammo at this point.

All my P226 and P229 carry guns have had the benefit of Grayguns’ ‘Comprehensive Duty Package’.

The fact that a gun-hating liberal prosecutor, or unscrupulous civil attorney, might try to make something of the fact that my gun had been ‘altered’, or that I was carrying top-quality ammo, just highlights the need for a good gun-savvy defense attorney if things ever get to the point where you’re forced to defend yourself in court.

gw Posted - November 04 2017 : 09:52:41 AM
Alverez was acquitted, I would like think there is some case law to support the type of modifications he made to his service weapon, but when in doubt leave it stock, and expect the lawyers to go after it anyway.

I've never thought it was smart to decorate your gun with skulls and grim reapers but I see that. also wonder about guns named Python and Cobra, in todays world sounds like a problem

but it depends on the area, a few years ago a local killed a kid during a home invasion with an AK47, I thought he was history but no charges were brought

around the same time a white cop shot an unarmed black guy in a traffic stop no,charges brought, but then....

Jesse Jackson's crew showed up and now the cop is down state doing time for manslaughter

is DPX defendable, I don't know, Deep Penetrating Xtreme might be something used against you. if you asked a lawyer I bet he'd recommend against it..

I bought some Hornady ammo on sale called Zombie Max, same bullet as their Critical Defense, but it's range ammo. I don't think I'd load Zombie Max in my carry gun.

and if you're involved in a shooting get a good criminal defense attorney. you might think you can save a few bucks but it's not a good plan

I was charged in what I thought to be a clear case of self defense, my lawyer stunk, I got lucky but I spent a year in hell before it was over.
Pop Pop Posted - November 03 2017 : 7:31:37 PM
Badge Alverez had also had some guy do something to the springs also, besides changing the grips. Said it was something a lot of Police Officers did to their revolvers during that time period. According to him (attorney) it (the alterations) was a big deal they had to defend.
Badge Posted - November 03 2017 : 7:14:20 PM
If I'm not mistaken the " alteration ", was the addition of Rogers grips, the forerunner of Hogue grips. Alvarez was dealing with a subject in an arcade with a firearm carried illegally. If memory and THAT riot serves me he cocked his service revolver and placed it to the back of the subjects head. A push back later and Miami was inflamed. As for DPX,... I am no expert but it is commercial ammunition. There are many here who are much more informed on that aspect than I.
Pop Pop Posted - November 03 2017 : 6:29:59 PM
Evan, I just read an interview, from this months ACLDN monthly news journal, where they interviewed the Attorney who defended Luis Alverez, 30 years ago. Luis was an officer in Miami FL, who was prosecuted for a on duty shooting, and the prosecution raised all kinds of questions about the back yard gun smiting alteration of his Police issued revolver.

The lawyer, Mark Seiden, also addressed the use of "Boutique Ammo" (His Words), and how that would give a prosecutor an opportunity to claim one used a extreme super duper brand of killer ammo so his gun would be even more deadly.

His advice, stick with Winchester, Rem Golden Saber, Speer Gold Dot, or the same ammo the local police uses. Strongly advice stick with major brand ammo.

Your a man who spent a lifetime on the mean streets of Detroit, would DPX be considered a Boutique Ammo? You got any thoughts on this? By the way I now carry DPX in all my guns also. Not meant to stir trouble here...Just your, and others thoughts, and discussions of other very learned men here.

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