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T O P I C R E V I E W
psegnatelli
Posted - November 03 2009 : 9:07:36 PM I know a old lady around my neighborhood that has expressed to her concern for keeping herself around a bit longer.
She's worked all her life and has a bit of arthritis in both hands.
She has a 4in 38spl revolver that was her husbands. I don;t think she's touched it in 35years. I cleaned it, shot it, and gave it back to her with a box of JHP. It came with 6 RNL Winchester rounds with the rounded balloony primers!
I honestly don't think she can handle it for more than a round or two.
If this was your friend, would you let her go about living with that 38 or suggest she acquire something else? I was thinking of a Ruger type semi auto in 22lr.
Of course the 38special is the better cartridge. But like it's been said before "a hit with a 22 is better than a miss...."
I know she's probably better armed than anyone else on her block, but I just don't think she can shoot it.
When my probatanary period of my gunclub ends this winter, I can bring guests shooting and do plan on bringing her ASAP. I guess the proof will be in the pudding.
7 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First)
Watchyour6
Posted - November 04 2009 : 10:58:38 PM Nowadays we often look to .38 Special +P 110 gr. CorBon DPX hollow points and short barrel .38 Special +P 135 grain Speer Gold Dot hollowpoints -- but from what you've said, I don't think she'd be happy with shooting +Ps and she'd begin to flinch. I'd imagine a .38 Special 148 grain Lead Wadcutter is better than a .22LR.
Instead of relying on a rather sedate wadcutter round for defense, how about a Winchester standard velocity .38 Special 110 grain Silvertip Hollowpoint which is specifically made for defense? (The case is brass.....but there's that shiny Silvertip on top!) That round is fairly mild in the recoil department because of the light 110gr STHP bullet and you'll get at least some fairly decent expansion of the hollowpoint, I'd reckon, in typical home defense scenarios [i.e. mostly full frontal torso shots]. In home defense, you're not going to be trying to punch through car windows and truck doors. Don't get that load confused with the Winchester +P 125 gr. Silvertip Hollowpoint (the case is nickel), which will recoil more.
At least with the Winchester Silvertip line of ammo in .380 ACP, .38 Special, .38 Special +P, 9mm 115 grain STHP, and the 40 S & W 155 STHP (that's a powerful round!), they generally still come in 50 round boxes which makes shooting up a box a little less expensive. (I think the .45 ACP 185 gr. STHPs are in 20 round boxes.)
Maybe use the mild 148 grain Lead Wadcutters for practice and the standard velocity 110 grain Winchester Silvertip .38 Specials for defense. But she's still got to practice with the Silvertips. At longer ranges with the lighter 110 grain STHP, from a fixed rear sight revolver, it's possible that the rounds may group just below (or a lot below) the point of aim as traditionally all the old fixed sight revolvers from ye old days were regulated to the anemic 158 grain Lead Round Nose std. velocity .38 Specials -- those rounds gave .38 Specials a bad name. At close range, inside a house, at 21 feet or less where a lot of confrontations happen suddenly and in dim light, that 110 grain STHP will group fine enough at or near the point of aim. She should be practicing at 21 feet or less, I'd imagine -- or the longest distance of any of her rooms. Maybe even just 10 feet.
I would not recommend a semi auto. With advanced arthritis, and very limited upper body strength, there's always an issue about drawing back the slide and limp-wristing causing malfunctions.
If she has trouble pulling back the trigger on the Double Action of a revolver, I'd hate to say it, but maybe she has to use both index fingers. I don't like the idea of "cocking" the hammer to Single Action to cover a felon or to fire. Too many chances for an accident. Besides, it gets dicey trying to safely lower the hammer on a revolver even when not under stress. Don't responding police officers command you -- even as the innocent homeowner -- to "drop the gun -- right NOW!" ? I'd rather drop a revolver with the hammer down, than to drop a revolver that's been cocked to single action.
Again, covering a bad guy with a cocked revolver (or pistol) is a bad idea -- too much room for an accident, especially if one has a ton of adrenalin hitting one's system and affecting one's fine motor coordination.
If she decides to rely on any firearm, she really has to take a class that not only teaches the fundamentals of shooting and gun safety and handling, but all legal aspects of self-defense and the rules in your jurisdiction about gun ownership. The class especially should teach her how to behave when responding officers arrive. If she has a gun, she must carry a cell phone! Pass the class. And then practice, practice, practice.
Honestly, though, if she is not going to be safe or competent around guns, I would rather see her with lots of Mark 3 sized (2oz) cans of FOX pepper spray or maybe Sabre Red pepper spray located strategically throughout the house. At $14.99, you can have a lot of those around the house. If your jurisdiction allows it, get the bigger 4 oz cans. Maybe cone pattern pepper spray is better inside the house - just point and shoot. Outside the house, I think the tighter heavy stream pattern for pepper spray is better in the wind and it has a couple more feet range.
If you carry a gun, carry a cell phone to call 911 and pepper spray. The chances of your getting into a fistfight (that can end quickly with pepper spray) are much greater than getting into a lethal confrontation, or at least one hopes! As always, be aware of your surroundings so you can walk (run!) away from trouble!
GLV
Posted - November 04 2009 : 5:02:42 PM I have taught people with arthritis problems and weak hands, to use both hands, with both index fingers puling the trigger. In actual use, the adrenalin will overcome any weakness.
Perhaps practice could be done with a .22 revolver similar to her 38?
Ace
Posted - November 04 2009 : 1:50:36 PM I meant to put in my post: If a .22 turns out to be the best, or only, option in her case, maybe see how a .22magnum works for her. A bit more power, not much more recoil. Good wishes to her, hope things can be worked out. Ace
jle3030
Posted - November 04 2009 : 06:37:20 AM Racking autoloader slides and DA revolver triggers could both be a problem. Then there's the question of recoil in a "serious" centerfire caliber. Perhaps a Ruger .22 Bearcat? Single Six in .22 Mag? Or can she simply thumb cock her old .38 w/ Nyclads or Wadcutters?
Is there a sentimental attachment to her husband's memory and his gun? If so, it might be better to work within that parameter. I'm not too fond of lightweight spring kits, but when I tried them I found them less reliable for DA ignition, but mostly OK for SA. Jerry Miculek has said he prefers Federal primers for his light action revolvers.
And my last remark probably should have come first. Does this woman still have the mental capacity to handle a gun safely? At TDI we once had a very feisty and gregarious late 70's woman who had decided to jump into defensive handgunning with both feet. She said all the right stuff, but it turned out she had just been reading a lot. On the range she could not load the mags on the 9mm BHP clone she had insisted on buying. Limp wristing led to jams on about every shot. It was very hard to convince her to switch to a 3" M36. When she did, she could not remember how to reload it from one time to the next. Once we had the gun loaded she could't figure out DA from SA and was generally unsafe with a loaded weapon. Her shooting was abysmal and never improved. I was assigned to shepherd her through the day. By the end of the session we all knew we had a very pleasant, but obsessive old lady, with a bee in her bonnet, gradually going 'round the bend. It was very sad, really.
Jeff
nightlighter12
Posted - November 04 2009 : 05:29:34 AM My older daughter is lacking in upper body strength also but likes to occassionally shoot a Walther P22 I have access to. I've considered eventually getting one of those Advantage Arms .22 conversion kits for my G-26. Only thing she'd have to be concerned about strengthwise is working the slide. Not familiar with Rugers although I'm sure they're fine guns.
Ace
Posted - November 03 2009 : 10:19:57 PM Possibly, hopefully, she could learn with really light wadcutters, shooting just a few at a time, with good hollow-points in it for serious purposes. Maybe get her some of the standard-pressure Nyclads? Ace
Srigs
Posted - November 03 2009 : 9:13:04 PM A 4" 38 special revolver is a great choice for a basic shooter or someone looking for protection. Older revolvers generally have great triggers so she might be able to shoot it much better than most guns.
