| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Center Shot |
Posted - July 19 2006 : 10:19:37 PM
Recently Chuck Taylor had a article in Combat Handguns, called "6 favorite loads for the Glock 17" His top loads were as follows:
1. Hornaday custom 115 XTP JHP
2. Cor-Bon 115 +P JHP
3. Winchester 115 Silvertip JHP
4. Federal 124 Hydra-Shok JHP
5. Winchester Ranger 127 SXT +P+ JHP
6. Cor-Bon 125 +P JHP
I am surprised, that he does not mention Gold Dot, Golden Saber, or Federal HST. Or any ammo with a 147 grain bullet. What is your top six loads for the 9mm for self defense and law enforcement purposes? Thank You. |
| 25 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Barnacle Bill |
Posted - November 26 2009 : 3:56:44 PM
quote:
Originally posted by WR Moore
I'm not real sure how any of us left Hornaday out of the list of major players.....
Well, I can't find them even on the charts in Evan's third bok in any service handgun caliber. Their LE-only 5.56mm 75gr TAP load is the cat's meow in some AR circles, but you never hear much about them in the handgun context. |
| WR Moore |
Posted - November 25 2009 : 2:59:05 PM
I'm not real sure how any of us left Hornaday out of the list of major players.....We've used truckloads of Fiocchi (plant in Missouri) .223 ball, burns dirty, functions extremely well, does 1 MOA or better from my boltgun. Once upon a time I used cases of 9mm PMC without issue.
I've never used any of the others, heard Ultamax is in the category 3. There's a couple of others that either looking at their name or ads should give you pause about even thinking about going to court after having used their ammmo. |
| Barnacle Bill |
Posted - November 21 2009 : 1:40:24 PM
quote:
Originally posted by WR Moore
I certainly think (hope) Cor-Bon qualifies as a major player, I expect Black HIlls and all the companies under the ATK/Blount umbrellas would too. If you could get copies of what LLEA considers acceptable sources, you'd have a leg up, but that kinda info probably isn't widely available.
As a non-LEO civvie, my only access to inside dope on any of this stuff is what gets posted in places like this. Now this particular board I know to contain folks who know their stuff, and I expect that if some random chairborne ranger was posting bum dope here that the folks I'm talking about would correct it pretty quick. So, this is where I come to learn stuff like that.
This matter (reliable ammo makers) does impact the question above because in the ammo shortage we can't always find the clearly trusted names. So, can we get specific?
I'm assuming three tiers...
1) Good for any purpose the load is intended to serve
2) Good only for practice/plinking
3) Stay away
So, let's say Tier 1 includes at least ATK (Federal, Speer, etc...), Winchester, Remington, Black Hills & Corbon.
What about these commonly encoutered names...
Aguila (Mexico)
American Tactical Imports (Turkish)
Bear (Russia)
Buffalo Bore
BVAC (Bitterroot Valley Ammunition & Components)
Centurian (Mexico)
Doubletap
DRT
Extreme Shock
Fiocchi (Italy)
Georgia Arms
Hormady
HSM (The Hunting Shack)
Magtech (Brazil)
PMC (Korea)
Prvi Partizan (Serbia)
SBR (Southern Ballistics Research)
Sellier and Bellot (Czech)
Silver State Armory
Ultramax
Wolf (Russia, excluding "gold" made by Prvi)
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| WR Moore |
Posted - November 20 2009 : 9:58:21 PM
I certainly think (hope) Cor-Bon qualifies as a major player, I expect Black HIlls and all the companies under the ATK/Blount umbrellas would too. If you could get copies of what LLEA considers acceptable sources, you'd have a leg up, but that kinda info probably isn't widely available. I do recall a sudden lack of interest from some people hot to supply our ammo needs when certified proof of insurance coverage and random QC pressure testing were demanded. [You guys act like you don't trust us. Matter of fact, Jack, we don't!]
I have memories of one botique maker with an excellent regional reputation, ads in some major gunzines and real purty boxes. They went down the tubes over hot loads in one specific caliber that repeatedly broke guns. Note: they were advised about those loads and ignored advice. One exercised customer went to H.P White and the lab results were mind boggling. He collected enough to pay the lab, buy some new toys and sufficient beverages to sooth his jangled nerves for quite some time.
Then there's some with names you never want associated with yours in a court of law. |
| Barnacle Bill |
Posted - November 20 2009 : 11:02:03 AM
quote:
Originally posted by WR Moore
General comment: I'd avoid the products of botique ammo makers for serious purposes. While some may produce a quality product, abide by SAAMI limitations(and have the lab tests to prove it) and carry insurance; some don't. None have the courtroom stature of the major players in the industry.
That's kinda the trick, isn't it? Who makes the grade? Obviously Federal, Speer, Winchester & Remington. On this board certainly Cor-Bon. Is that it? |
| Chuck |
Posted - November 20 2009 : 08:23:51 AM
In standard pressure I have found the 147gr Win. Ranger-T and Fed. HST loads to be very good. |
| WR Moore |
Posted - November 20 2009 : 01:29:25 AM
General comment: I'd avoid the products of botique ammo makers for serious purposes. While some may produce a quality product, abide by SAAMI limitations(and have the lab tests to prove it) and carry insurance; some don't. None have the courtroom stature of the major players in the industry.
|
| Barnacle Bill |
Posted - November 19 2009 : 11:35:33 PM
Personally, I like 9BPLE for modern guns & C9BP for old school. I don't shoot the former for routine practice, just 100 rounds to confirm reliability & then annually or so shoot up the old supply once the new is in hand. For practice I like S&B brass case 115gr FMJ, which is affordable by the case & never did me wrong.
Lately I've found it pretty hard to track down anybody with either Federal load in stock. I've found some, but ranging far afield of the usual suspects. Lots of options in the +P & +P+ world, but what else do folks like in standard pressure? |
| mspears |
Posted - October 28 2009 : 07:53:45 AM
The GD 115 +P+ shoots great out of my P228. Ammunitiontogo has had it stock for quite some time now @ $24.95/50. That's about all I could find when I bought the P228 several months ago. I haven't looked around lately but I'm happy with the GD for now. |
| Barnacle Bill |
Posted - October 27 2009 : 9:06:47 PM
quote:
Originally posted by 9 Micky Mouse
On hand I have two boxes each
Winchester 115gr +P+
Speer Gold Dot 115gr +P+
Federal 115gr +P+
Corbon 115gr +P which acts like a +P+ at 1350fps
Corbon only lists the DPX at 1250fps.
How do you like that GS +P+? I had a hard time recently tracking down my usual 9BPLE but ran into somebody offering a good price on the GD & was tempted. Both list at 1300fps and really come from the same company, so I'm assuming the GD is pretty much 9BPLE with a more modern bullet. |
| 9 Micky Mouse |
Posted - October 27 2009 : 8:53:17 PM
In my G19 right now is the Fed 115gr +P+ If I could get a hold of the 9mm Geco BAT I would carry it.
On hand I have two boxes each
Winchester 115gr +P+
Speer Gold Dot 115gr +P+
Federal 115gr +P+
Corbon 115gr +P which acts like a +P+ at 1350fps |
| mojo |
Posted - October 27 2009 : 12:07:46 PM
I'll field this one - - - Practical difference between 115 and the 124-127 I doubt the BG would be able to tell what he was shot with I like +P 124 myself.
All the major manufacturers make reliable ammo most guns made nowadays will run with most ammo made nowadays. YMMV |
| Adj1 |
Posted - October 27 2009 : 11:04:08 AM
I know this will seem like a dumb question, but is there any practical difference between 115gr. 9mm loads, and the 124-127gr. offerings?
If so, what?
Orrr...is it possible to pick one from any major manufacturer that will operate reliably in your gun, be it standard pressure +P, or these days, whatever you are able to find on the shelves, and have confidence in it ?
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| LtBlue425 |
Posted - October 19 2009 : 12:40:31 PM
Circa 1990 the 147 subsonic hp was the "fad" or "recommended" load. Based on what I don't know because our experience was abismal failure, failure to open, failure to stop. When the Stopping Power book came out it confirmed what we knew. Actually I had suspicions about it before our unfortunate experience.
Because of that I've got a built-in prejudice against 147 grainers and slow bullets in general. I'll take fast moving, violently expanding bullets. |
| wolfgang2000 |
Posted - October 18 2009 : 09:01:19 AM
Actually there is a lot of history out there, where ammo that wasn't the best was issued, especially when the lawyers get involved. I can remember when Dept's like the NYPD, LAPD, Detroit PD refused to let any HP ammo at all be carried.
Then there are the Dept's. that have little on no R&D budgets, and are "advised" by legal advisor's, or city administrators, to accept the R&D of organizations like the FBI. After all the FBI has to be right, in their minds.
The 9MM 147 grn. HP was originally designed for the sound suppressed sub guns, and the HP was more for accuracy, not expansion. But they met the new FBI cryterier, that was put in place after the 84 Miami shoot out.
The fact remains that the early 9MM 147 HP rounds were dismal stoppers in real life shootings. I understand that the newer crop of 147 are doing better. Great, I'll stick to the lighter 115 or 124 +P or +P+ rounds. |
| Evan |
Posted - October 18 2009 : 08:51:50 AM
I was never against 147gr loads-I was against loads that got coppers killed. the current crop of 147 would be fine for me IF DPX did not exist. To each his own. |
| agent00 |
Posted - October 18 2009 : 05:17:18 AM
What do you think about the 147 grain winchester supreme T bullets? Are the as good as the ranger T series ore worth? 147 grain jhps are very rare here in austria, and I came across an very intersting offer. If they perform well I think I will buy them.. |
| Barnacle Bill |
Posted - October 17 2009 : 3:11:32 PM
I recently learned that the nearest big city PD to me (let's call it the "Greater Ohio Valley", where the South & Midwest rub elbows) uses "Winchester 9mm 147gr". That was from a doc on their web site outlining authorized weapons & ammo for the department (weapon-wise it is S&W M&P & M&Pc). No mention of +P or +P+ in there, so I'm assuming they mean standard pressure. This region isn't big on PC like certain other areas, so I'm guessing they wouldn't be using it it didn't work. |
| wolfgang2000 |
Posted - October 17 2009 : 12:55:40 PM
My old dept. use to issue the 147 Talons / Ranger for 9MM. Mostly because the FBI said it would be great. It had a dismal "real" shooting record.
I finally bought some Ranger 127+P+ for my wife and I. I figured we had to be alive to be fired. |
| Chuck |
Posted - October 17 2009 : 02:51:29 AM
I'd carry either the 147gr HST or Ranger-T without complaint.
I have the Ranger-T in my G19 right now, it's what the store had in stock in quantity when I bought the gun. |
| mag318 |
Posted - October 17 2009 : 12:08:23 AM
I still prefer Winchester 147grn Black Talons kna Ranger T. With good shot placement being paramount most of the discussed loads would be effective. I like this weight because I know it will penetrate even a heavily clothed bad guy. |
| LtBlue425 |
Posted - October 16 2009 : 10:34:01 PM
Recently I had a lengthy conversation with a firearms examiner from a very large agency about different bullets and loads. I personally haven't seen any Golden Sabre used but he has seen a lot and they have trouble expanding in real life shootings. However he personally hasn't seen any DPX (or Corbon)and I have. He's seen the Winchester Ranger ammo used.
So...bottom line based on our personal observations. He carries Win Ranger 124 gr in his 9mm. I carry DPX/Corbon in my 380/9mm autos and Win in 45ACP. I've had a terrible time finding Corbon in 9mm all year so I recently bought the DPX bullets and loaded my own ammo. Now I feel better with my 9mm.  |
| M_E_ |
Posted - October 16 2009 : 10:02:52 PM
quote:
Originally posted by CharlieX
quote:
Originally posted by Hook686
Why does 147 grain 9mm ammunition, such as:
Buffalo Bore SKU: 24C/20 9mm Luger +P+ Pistol and Handgun Ammo
9mm Luger +P+ Pistol and Handgun Ammo - (+P+) 147 gr. Jacketed Hollow Point (1,175 fps/M.E. 451 ft. lbs.)
get no respect ?
It sure has mine.
What are you shooting a 14 Speer Gold Dot out of to get those speeds?
Launching a 147 gr. Gold Dot at 1175 fps seems to be a pretty effective dose of high velocity lead poisoning to me.
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| agent00 |
Posted - August 28 2009 : 5:10:32 PM
I think so too. But nowerdays there are some decent 147 grain loads out there, but unfortatelly they aren*t available in jhp configuration. An shooting buddy uses the 147 grain fmj from federal for plinking and he is very happy with them. |
| wolfgang2000 |
Posted - August 28 2009 : 2:21:40 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Hook686
Why does 147 grain 9mm ammunition, such as:
Buffalo Bore SKU: 24C/20 9mm Luger +P+ Pistol and Handgun Ammo
9mm Luger +P+ Pistol and Handgun Ammo - (+P+) 147 gr. Jacketed Hollow Point (1,175 fps/M.E. 451 ft. lbs.)
get no respect ?
I would guess that there is still some hard feelings from the original 147 which were designed to be sub-sonic. IMO there were dismal stoppers. |
