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T O P I C R E V I E W
Posted - March 18 2006 : 3:56:02 PM We hosted the Glock armorer course and instructor workshop at our range over the past week (very cool to have THE Dennis Tueller as the instructor).
We just got our shipment of Glock 22s in last Friday, and the ammo in on Monday (CCI Blazer and Gold Dot 165gr), we were also planning on deploying the M3X lights for our new guns for the tac and K9 guys (we previously issued the S&W TSW and the M3 lights).
In live fire we quickly figured out that the combo of a G22, 165gr ammo (especially the Gold Dot) and the mounted lights leads to a nasty feed ramp/front of mag nose dive stoppage.
It's not a limp wrist issue, in fact it's the opposite. I could really limp wrist the gun and it would work, when one gets on the gun like one should it's instant choke. I believe that the .40 and .357 Sig Glocks are under sprung recoil spring wise, and that the round is cycling the slide so fast that the mag spring can't keep up. I'm not hold my breath that Herr Glock takes my suggestion and comes up with a recoil spring just for the .40/.357s
I should note that a couple of our guns weren't 100% even without lights, but that could have been new gun issues, although they would be the first Glocks I've seen need a break in.
FWIW, the CCI guys are VERY helpful and don't play the blame game,,,, once again they are stepping up to the plate to help fix a problem that I am certain they didn't create.
Was on the phone with a buddy who is the rangemaster for KCMO PD, they issue the 180gr Gold Dot (and it works very well for them in their OISs). I confirmed that they deploy nearly 100 guns with tac lights and they have had no problems....so it was off to Simmons in the Olathe area to get a case of 180gr Gold Dot and confirm.
After over 400 rounds through two guns with lights mounted, using eight different mags, my guns seem to work with the 180gr (it's all of the .40 my hands could stand last night, man I wish we had stayed with the 9mm, I'm convinced this wouldn't have happened, oh well.....). Now for everyone else's guns I'm in testing mode. CCI is fronting me ammo to do a test fire, they actually want us to shoot a bunch of free ammo so that we are happy it works, did I mention they are great folks??)
I've always been a light fast bullet kind of guy, but of course reliability comes first. I do like the fact that KCMO has had such good luck with the 180gr Gold Dot in their officer involved shootings. I've seen two on car camera videos, both of those bad guys looked like they had been hit by Thor's hammer, not that I'm holding my breath that this will always be the case. FWIW, our Glock rep advises that the Glock .40s were designed around the 180gr ammo.
Has anyone else had any similar issues??? Comments?????? Other suggestions?
25 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First)
Posted - March 29 2011 : 4:18:03 PM As I am new to the forum, I'm reading from a little different topics, and this caught my attention, use 3 GLOCK 22 since 1998, the first corresponded to the generation 2 and the last two to generation 3, also from that time more than a dozen colleagues have also been using the G22, we have never had problems in its operation, being the first to consider a weapon is reliability, we tested with all types and brands of ammunition of all weights , premium and standard, and plenty of ammo recharged ourselves with 155/170/180 and 210 pesos Grais and different settings, thanks to reload our ammo, which saves approximately 80% of the cost, we perform tens thousands of practice shots over the years, except for a fulminant failure (low quality) have never been interrupted, it will be passed as in our country that the weapons are issued to various agencies do not have the same quality control that you can buy weapons in a house?
Posted - March 04 2011 : 11:07:57 PM
quote:Originally posted by FORT CHAFFEE
Chuck, do you think Glock has "fixed" the 22's problems with the Gen4? Thanks.
I hear that they are breaking strikers in SoCal, but that seems to only be with lead free ammo. Not sure why that would be/what is different with the lead free stuff, just reporting what I am being told.
Posted - March 04 2011 : 4:26:19 PM They used the 124gr +P+ 9MM HS. When they carried wheel guns they carried Fed's 110gr jhp-and very quite happy with the results.
As far as I know their .40 rnd was either Rem or Fed 155gr jhp-they've found it a great stopper. Remember ICE shoots more people than all the other Fed LE organizations.
Posted - March 04 2011 : 3:30:31 PM
quote:Originally posted by spwenger
one of their instructors told me that a rep from one of the companies had told him that the USBP loads are actually about 100 fps faster than the commercial stuff, even though the labeling is the same.
I still have tons of the stuff (155 JHP) from before I retired. I would venture to say it was loaded hotter as the round was not on the open market when I was working. I still use them for qualification and somebody always comments about how hot they seem to be.
Posted - March 04 2011 : 08:54:14 AM Chuck, do you think Glock has "fixed" the 22's problems with the Gen4? Thanks.
Posted - March 04 2011 : 12:07:16 AM Glock does in fact sell reconditioned guns through their distributors.
Right now Sig is is having far more QC issues than Glock.
I am currently talking to two large LE agencies that have had stoppage issues pop up with their gen 3 Glock 22s. Same story, fails-to-feed issues.
Posted - December 20 2010 : 4:38:15 PM
quote:Originally posted by bubbinator
Glock NEVER reconditions their weapos-how can they sell new ones?
Are you absolutely certain?
Posted - December 19 2010 : 12:36:49 AM One of the largest LE Equipment/Uniform distributors is located less than 100 yds from the front door of my State Police Agency district office. In my 21.5 yr. career we have traded in guns with them at least 3 agency wide times. If you like the gun you had you can tell them and they will sell it back to you at a discount. Glock NEVER reconditions their weapos-how can they sell new ones? You get what you see froma patrolman's holster to the dealers box of guns on the floor! I have had occasion to examine over 120 agency-turn in batches of pistols, shotguns, and some patrol rifles/sniper rifles, plus siezed guns traded for new guns. Best buy was a High Standard 18" 12ga Riot Gun w/rifle sights for $125.!
Posted - December 10 2010 : 4:07:59 PM I don't own any 40, never really cared for the caliber, but I keep thinking about getting one due to ammo availability. A lot of shops in my area have bunches of Glock 22's that are law enforcement trade-ins reconditioned by Glock. They are a mix of Gen 2 and Gen 3. Does anyone know what Glock might have done to "recondition" them? Has anyone bought one of these? The price is low enough to tempt me, but the other voice in my head keep saying "save your money and get a M&P 40"
Posted - November 24 2010 : 02:02:10 AM Just to prove a point raised by a fellow officer in another State Agency that carries Sigs- He said Google Glock Firearms Problems then Google Sig Firearms Problems and see what you get. It was like 600 hits vs 300 hits! I respect his insight, I've seen his photos of the Ho Chi Minh Trail from Laos and Cambodia! Alas, he too is forced to transition his officers to Glock 22s. Murphy's Law-lowest bidder!
Posted - October 09 2010 : 6:02:36 PM
quote:Originally posted by bubbinator
Stephen, I got this information from a Shotgun News article, I believe. It was quite detailed, almost 4 pages (+ads).
Well, you've got me at a loss - I don't follow Shotgun News.
However, I just went back skimmed John Jacobs' article on the USBP's selection of the 155 gr. .40 S&W JHP, in Evan's third book, and the only mention I find of the Hydra-Shok load is in a very general context of "outstanding designs" available in that weight. On the other hand, there is a photograph of a box of the Remington load, one of two brands I saw alternated - the other being the the standard Federal JHP - in the years I lived on the border.
Anyone else care to weigh in?
Posted - October 09 2010 : 01:30:18 AM Stephen, I got this information from a Shotgun News article, I believe. It was quite detailed, almost 4 pages (+ads).
Posted - September 27 2010 : 6:10:24 PM
quote:Originally posted by bubbinator
The US Border PAtrol had the best documentend info I found and opted for the 155 Federal Hydra-Shok as their load. We did too, and it all worked well.
When did they use the Hydra-Shok? When I lived on the border (July 1999 to January 2003) they were alternating between the regular Federal and Remington JHP's. Back in May, one of their instructors told me that a rep from one of the companies had told him that the USBP loads are actually about 100 fps faster than the commercial stuff, even though the labeling is the same.
Posted - September 27 2010 : 02:47:46 AM Our State Police agency replaced Sig P220s(which were working fine) w/ Glock 22s (Political appointed Administrator said we "needed" more bullets + he is A Glock stock holder) As A Firearms Instructor/Gunsmith, I did a lot of online research on line about the 40 S&W round. The US Border PAtrol had the best documentend info I found and opted for the 155 Federal Hydra-Shok as their load. We did too, and it all worked well. Just to be fair-poor shooters were still poor shooters, but officers who were serious about qualification had 0 problems. Now retired- I carry Federal HST 165s or Ranger SXT Upgrades.
Posted - June 24 2010 : 12:53:03 AM Sorry for the double-tap. It didn't look like the first message went through.
Posted - June 24 2010 : 12:51:35 AM Yep, they keep burping on low-impulse ammo like most commonly used target stuff (i.e., WWB). They used to be undersprung, now they are oversprung. Perhaps the "02" fix will take care of it.
Posted - June 23 2010 : 08:26:50 AM Thanks Mike,i am also looking at the new Gen 4 Glocks. In this months Guns Ayoob did a test of the new 22's and gave it a good review. Something must be wrong for Glock to put a new recoil spring in the Gen 4.
Posted - June 22 2010 : 6:36:34 PM Hello,
There's pictures on the Glock Talk forum of the new "02"-marked Gen 4 recoil spring.
The author of the post said his pistol (G17) was shipped in mid-June 2010.
Per the OP:
"Observing the outer spring, the old version is just shy of 20 turns and the "02" version is just shy of 18 turns. Too hard to see what the inner spring differences are (if any)."
Sounds like we still haven't achieved perfection yet. It will be interesting to see if the Gen 4 guns with the "02" recoil spring will see a reawakening of the mounted light failures that prompted the redesign in the first place. I'm hopeful this "02" redesign will do the trick, since I really want the G22 to become a reliable platform.
Posted - June 20 2010 : 12:39:03 AM Although I know of a few cases where the gen 4 G22s are having issues (LAPD is breaking strikers like crazy shooting their lead-free amm, and PD had some out of spec frames), generally all reports are that the gen 4 solves the excessive slide velocity issues that many of the earlier G22s had, especially when a tac light is mounted.
Posted - June 19 2010 : 12:53:40 PM Joe, I'm with you... I had an issued G22 about 5 or 6 years back, and it worked without a hitch. We did not carry lights on the guns where I worked then. Here we do, and our G23s have no issues. We are strongly leaning towards moving to G22s here, and I expressed my concerns about mounting lights on 22s based on all the history (all of it bad) with that gun/light combination. So, we got a few Gen 4 22s in to T&E. We shot them quite a bit, and had no problems with them at all, just as you described. I'm a big fan of the platform, but I agree with Chuck - if the light causes issues, they can keep it. I still remember a couple ways to work a gun and a flashlight without them being attached to one another!!
Posted - June 17 2010 : 02:19:43 AM
quote:Originally posted by FORT CHAFFEE
Does anyone have any reports on the new Gen. 4 Glock 22's. Have the problems been fixed? Thanks.
I've been personally involved in testing several samples, and they work, period. Light mounted, no light, limp wrist, two fingers, no cleaning, upside down & sideways...anything we could think of, and no issues.
I'm looking forward to seeing one in my duty holster (or perhaps a gen 4 G23, if it works as well). My current duty pistol is a G22 born in 2008 that has never malfunctioned, although I've never had any inclination to hang a light on it.
Posted - June 16 2010 : 7:21:41 PM Some of the rookies have them. Nothing yet.
Posted - June 16 2010 : 4:41:42 PM Does anyone have any reports on the new Gen. 4 Glock 22's. Have the problems been fixed? Thanks.
Posted - June 13 2010 : 2:24:01 PM I recently repeated the Glock armorer course, for recertification. I asked about the G22/rail-light problem and was told that 99% of it has been fixed by increasing the magazine spring to 12 coils. I guess it's that remaining 1% that can get you seriously injured.
Posted - June 13 2010 : 1:41:46 PM Another OIS another FTF. While trying to get out of his squad and fire rounds at an bad guy who opened up on them the officers Glock 22 (gen 3) FTF. He had a streamlight TLR 2 light attached. It seems if you limp wrist this weapon at all it doesn't want to cycle.